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OfflineTwirling
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I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II....
    #3486968 - 12/12/04 06:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

and I need some opinons. I need 14 people to respond with answers (and of course, be honest).

So here's the survey. I'm going to list a few provisions the Patriot Act II contains, and you have to respond with either Strongly Agree, Agree, Neutral, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree.

1. The government would no longer be required to disclose the identity of anyone, including an American citizen, detained in connection with a terror investigation ? until criminal charges are filed, no matter how long that takes (sec 201).

2. Current court limits on local police spying on religious and political activity would be repealed (sec. 312).

3. The government would be allowed to obtain credit records and library records without a warrant (secs. 126, 128, 129).

4. Wiretaps without any court order for up to 15 days after terror attack would be permissible. (sec. 103).

5. Release of information about health/safety hazards posed by chemical and other plants would be restricted (sec. 202).

6. Americans could be extradited, searched and wiretapped at the behest of foreign nations, whether or not treaties allow it (sec. 321, 322).

7. Individuals engaged in civil disobedience could risk losing their citizenship (sec. 501)

8. Organizations could be subject to wiretapping (secs. 120, 121).

9. Organizations could be subject to asset seizure (secs. 428, 428).

10. Lawful immigrants would be stripped of the right to a fair deportation hearing and federal courts would not be allowed to review immigration rulings (secs. 503, 504).


Thanks!

Two other questions:

1. What is your age?
2. What is your political affiliation (write ?none? if not registered)(optional)?


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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Invisibleblink
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... *DELETED* [Re: Twirling]
    #3486989 - 12/12/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by blinkidiot

Reason for deletion: Im sorry



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Invisiblegdman
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487006 - 12/12/04 06:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'll make it easy, aftering reading all of that I have on answer: Strongly disagree

20
registered Democrat


--------------------


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487015 - 12/12/04 06:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i strongly disagree with all of them

1) 23

2) independant


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineKenny7822
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: blink]
    #3487039 - 12/12/04 06:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

1. Strongly Disagree
2. Disagree
3. Strongly Disagree
4. Disagree
5. Disagree
6. Strongly Disagree
7. Strongly Disagree
8. Disagree
9. Disagree
10. Strongly Disagree

1. 19
2. Unenrolled (I don't side with any particular party)


Edited by Kenny7822 (12/12/04 06:48 PM)


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3487077 - 12/12/04 06:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

you support the police spying on religious and political groups? that not only goes against what our country is supposed to stand for, it would be useless. They add it there to combat "terror" what it really does is it gives the powers at be the right to spy on any political group.


--------------------


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  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3487087 - 12/12/04 06:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

the "patriot" act is totaly unconsitutional, I sure as hell hope it does not pass, it will not help us combat "terror" in anyway, but it will give the government an law enforcement Why more power then they should have, this will be used to spy on Americans.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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OfflineKenny7822
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: gdman]
    #3487090 - 12/12/04 06:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

oops I read that question wrong, all fixed now though.


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Anonymous

Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487091 - 12/12/04 06:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

eh...

this poll would be a little more useful if you cited the actual sections from the bill instead of using loaded interpretations.

for example:

"5. Release of information about health/safety hazards posed by chemical and other plants would be restricted (sec. 202)."

sounds pretty bad right?

actual section:

"Section 202: Distribution of "Worst Case Scenario" Information.

Section 112(r) of the Clean Air Act, 42 U.S.C. ? 7412(r), requires private companies that use potentially dangerous chemicals to submit to the Environmental Protection Agency a "worst case scenario" report detailing what would be the impact on the surrounding community of release of the specified chemicals. Such reports are a roadmap for terrorists, who could use the information to plan attacks on the facilities.

This provision would revise section 112(r)(7)(H) of the Clean Air Act to better manage access to information contained in "worst case scenario" reports. This revised section would continue to allow such information to be shared with federal and state officials who are responsible for preventing or responding to accidental or criminal releases. However, the revised section will require that public access be limited to "read-only" methods, and only to those persons who live or work in the geographical area likely to be affected by a worst-case release from a facility."


and another:

"7. Individuals engaged in civil disobedience could risk losing their citizenship (sec. 501)"

here's what the bill actually says:

"Section 501: Expatriation of Terrorists.

Under 8 U.S.C. ? 1481, an American can lose his citizenship by voluntarily, and with the intent to relinquish nationality, taking any of a number of actions, including: (1) obtaining Nationality in a foreign state; (2) taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign state; and, most importantly, (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state that are engaged in hostilities against the United States. The current expatriation statute does not, however, provide for the relinquishing of citizenship in cases where an American serves in a hostile foreign terrorist organization. It thus fails to take account of the myriad ways in which, in the modern world, war can be waged against the United States.

This provision would amend 8 U.S.C. ? 1481 to make clear that, just as an American can relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile foreign army, so can he relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile terrorist organization. Specifically, an American could be expatriated if, with the intent to relinquish nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a "terrorist organization," if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States."


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: ]
    #3487099 - 12/12/04 06:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

American in general: Strongly Disagree
All your questions: Strongly Disagree

Age: 21
Party affiliation: Assassin


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3487126 - 12/12/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you how to think, if you really think the government should have more of this power that's alright.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487138 - 12/12/04 07:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

1. strongly disagree

2. strongly disagree

3. strongly disagree

4. disagree

5. disagree

6. strongly disagree

7. strongly disagree

8. strongly disagree

9. strongly disagree

10. strongly disagree



1. What is your age? 22

2. What is your political affiliation? Libertarian


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3487218 - 12/12/04 07:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

strongly disagree with everyone.

19

I regestered democrat but consider myself: no party affilation.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487243 - 12/12/04 07:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

1. The government would no longer be required to disclose the identity of anyone, including an American citizen, detained in connection with a terror investigation ? until criminal charges are filed, no matter how long that takes (sec 201).
Strongly Disagree. Amnesty International condemns this practice

2. Current court limits on local police spying on religious and political activity would be repealed (sec. 312).
Strongly disagree. That includes your Shroomery Politics forum activity

3. The government would be allowed to obtain credit records and library records without a warrant (secs. 126, 128, 129).
disagree

4. Wiretaps without any court order for up to 15 days after terror attack would be permissible. (sec. 103).
Utmostly disagree. If a teenagers pipe bomb constitutes terrorism the whole country can be wiretapped.

5. Release of information about health/safety hazards posed by chemical and other plants would be restricted (sec. 202).
Strongly disagree. I want to be able to evacuate or move when needed

6. Americans could be extradited, searched and wiretapped at the behest of foreign nations, whether or not treaties allow it (sec. 321, 322).
Strongly disagree. An attempt to infringe on personal freedom and international treaties

7. Individuals engaged in civil disobedience could risk losing their citizenship (sec. 501)
Utmostly disagree. Can somebody shoot somebody to prevent this?

8. Organizations could be subject to wiretapping (secs. 120, 121).
Strongly disagree. Bypassing of the courts

9. Organizations could be subject to asset seizure (secs. 428, 428).
Strongly disagree

10. Lawful immigrants would be stripped of the right to a fair deportation hearing and federal courts would not be allowed to review immigration rulings (secs. 503, 504).
Strongly disagree

Age 32
Dutch national (i know, just wanted to partake)


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: ]
    #3487288 - 12/12/04 07:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
"7. Individuals engaged in civil disobedience could risk losing their citizenship (sec. 501)"

here's what the bill actually says:

"Section 501: Expatriation of Terrorists.

Under 8 U.S.C. ? 1481, an American can lose his citizenship by voluntarily, and with the intent to relinquish nationality, taking any of a number of actions, including: (1) obtaining Nationality in a foreign state; (2) taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign state; and, most importantly, (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state that are engaged in hostilities against the United States. The current expatriation statute does not, however, provide for the relinquishing of citizenship in cases where an American serves in a hostile foreign terrorist organization. It thus fails to take account of the myriad ways in which, in the modern world, war can be waged against the United States.

This provision would amend 8 U.S.C. ? 1481 to make clear that, just as an American can relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile foreign army, so can he relinquish his citizenship by serving in a hostile terrorist organization. Specifically, an American could be expatriated if, with the intent to relinquish nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a "terrorist organization," if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States."




You left out the last paragraph, which is where that part is contained. I'm not going to type up the whole thing, cause I don't have time to, but here's a few snippets:

"This provision would also make explicit that the intent to relinquish need not be manifested in words, but can be inferred from conduct..... Specific subjective intent to renounce United States citizenship..... may be proved by evidence of explicit renunciation, acts inconsistent with United States citizenship, or by affirmative voluntary acts clearly manifesting a decision to accept foreign nationality." etc etc...

The way this works is if a person joins a group which commits civil disobedience, that group can be labeled a terrorist group, which then can be used against the citizen as showing renunciation of US citizenship for joining a "terrorist group" (which conveniently gets defined by the US government).


See, it would be impossible to put all that into a neat little statement which the person doesn't get bored reading (which can lead to a person just filling out random answers). There's a lot of lawyer-speak and it can't just simply be put into a statement.

BTW, thanks for everyone who has filled it out! I really appreciate it.


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OfflineDigs
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487476 - 12/12/04 08:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You probably shouldn't base your survey sample on any thematic internet message board, especially one whose theme involves the illegal manufacture and consumption of drugs (in the us)

Edit:
but since you are, 22, no political affiliation, strongly disagree across the board


Edited by Digs (12/12/04 08:26 PM)


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3487537 - 12/12/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Part of the goal of the project is to sample different sources. I also surveyed people on campus as well as other people I knew.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3488579 - 12/13/04 12:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i strongly wdisagree with it all,
21
not declared


--------------------
PEACE

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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3488674 - 12/13/04 12:42 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

1. I strongly disagree with all of them.
2. 19 going on 20
3. democrat (only so I could vote in the primary, I think the party is full of shit)


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InvisibleBitterPill
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Re: I'm doing a survey for a school project on the Patriot Act II.... [Re: Twirling]
    #3488705 - 12/13/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Strongly disagree with all.
22 - Dem

This sort of action should tempt reasoning citizens to move to Canada.


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