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InvisibleHendostan
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Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 4,441
Why do we take pride in war?
    #3486652 - 12/12/04 04:44 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

some of the posts today have gotten this question running through my head. why do we as a society take so much pride, and almost a sick enjoyment, of making war on others? why is it considered a negative thing to be peace-loving? isn't that the end goal, even for those who would use war as a means to acheive that peace? even supporters of the current president, it seems to me, should not be happy about this situation, but rather see it as a necessary action on the road to peace. but instead it looks like people are enjoying it for it's own sake, independent of what the end results may be. this makes me a little sick to my stomach. discussion is welcomed from both sides


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Invisibledownforpot
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Registered: 06/25/01
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486667 - 12/12/04 04:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Because we can prove that we are better and more technologically advanced. We can prove that we can win whatever the odds the are. As for the troops on the ground: ending a life, ending a dream, fight face to face with another human being is something that has been supressed by the society in the recent age. This human intrict of killing, of ending a life, and surviving the horror of war will always live on, even in the peace loving hippies. Deep down there, you will turn when the shit gets ugly and when the only thing that you "think" will work is the destruction, the death of the opposition.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (12/12/04 04:52 PM)


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InvisibleHendostan
Male

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 4,441
Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: downforpot]
    #3486676 - 12/12/04 04:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

instincts to defend ourselves, yes, but why is it desireable to take another life?

Quote:

We can prove that we can win whatever the odds the are




for what? isn't the end goal not to have to fight anymore, or peace?


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Anonymous

Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: downforpot]
    #3486679 - 12/12/04 04:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

what is an intrict?


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486684 - 12/12/04 04:54 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Individually yes, the goal is to stop fighting by winning a war. But as a society, people collectively create anger and wars. I've a lot of this human thinking from psychology and it's so fucking confusing. There will always be war and there will aways be protestors, whether the war is just or not.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: ]
    #3486689 - 12/12/04 04:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

don't pull that shit man, go to the otd for that.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Invisibledr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,644
Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: ]
    #3486693 - 12/12/04 04:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

When you control the masses, you can make them think/feel anything you want. Puppeteers control the puppets.

Read the lyrics to the song "War Pigs", in depth:

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at balck masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcers of death's construction

In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!

War pigs, war pigs
War pigs, war pigs

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power
The hand of God has struck the hour

Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!

War pigs, war pigs
War pigs, war pigs

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
The leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486697 - 12/12/04 04:58 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Power politics. The fact that we can kick another nation's ass makes us feel good about ourselves, and makes our ego swell. Of course, it's not really "us" that are winning. It's our massive government and the military-industrial complex, which works for the interests of multinational corporations.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3486721 - 12/12/04 05:02 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The problem is that people think to simply of war. War, the purpose of war, the effect of war, the problems it bring, the positive things it bring, and hundreds of other shit; it is all so fucking complicated that one can write a 500 page book on this shit. War is probably one of the most complicated "enterprises" that a society can go into because it affects so many people and so many things in so many different ways.

I'm just rambling right now, hah.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Anonymous

Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: downforpot]
    #3486731 - 12/12/04 05:05 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

it's an honest question. i would think that you meant "instinct", except that "instinct" sounds nothing like "intrict", so it doesn't seem like a spelling error, and it doesn't look like a typo either. i'm not trying to be a dick.... i really can't figure out what you're trying to say. i actually looked up "intrict" in a dictionary before asking...


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InvisibleHendostan
Male

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 4,441
Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: downforpot]
    #3486754 - 12/12/04 05:10 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

that's alright man, i'm interested in what you have to say. why would it not be possible to have a productive society without war? war by it's nature is very counterproductive, it destroys lives, buildings, using an insane amount of resources...wouldn't it be better to establish cooperation? if the intent is to inflate the ego, that too would be better served by helping others, not hurting, wouldn't it? many studies have been done (i'll find a link) on cooperation and competition, and it's no surprise that groups working together acheive vast amounts more than those that compete with eachother....a whole other issue is that of defending ourselves, because there are just some plain evil people who do take a sick pleasure in causing harm, death, and destruction. what do we do about them? they can't be ignored can they?


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InvisibleHendostan
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Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 4,441
Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486759 - 12/12/04 05:12 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

(the last question is for us hippies)


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Registered: 12/07/04
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486769 - 12/12/04 05:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I participated in Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Infinite Justice, and INTERFET, as a U.S. Marine in a special operations capable infantry unit. I have taken no pride in what I have done, but it seems like the civilians around me take more pride.
There is nothing that I can be prideful of now. Nightmares, anxiety, stress, fear are all that I have left over from the war. War is a terrible thing for everybody, including the soldiers who participated in the killing.


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Kiss the ring Bitch!



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Anonymous

Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: downforpot]
    #3486783 - 12/12/04 05:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

people do not have an instinct to kill. we have an instinct against killing that is actually pretty strong. simply getting soldiers to overcome this instinct is a big part of military training, and most of the psychological trauma from being a soldier in a war comes not from the constant danger and death, but the fact that one knows and remembers that they've killed people.


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OfflineInnerBeing
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: ]
    #3486799 - 12/12/04 05:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you for that. I think that is a very accurate description of post war trauma. Looking in the mirror at yourself, after the fact, is the hardest thing to do. You feel like a monster, when you know deep down inside that you are not and you never were before. It is hard to make sense of it all.


--------------------
Kiss the ring Bitch!



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486805 - 12/12/04 05:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Why do we take pride in war?



Blood-lust.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleHendostan
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3486810 - 12/12/04 05:29 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, I simply cannot imagine how that must feel. All things considered, it is extremely hard for me to understand how people can be in support of this.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486827 - 12/12/04 05:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe not everyone is affected by it? Or maybe it's cause Bush never saw the horrors of war first hand...


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Hendostan]
    #3486831 - 12/12/04 05:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Better question: Why do those of us who don't take pride in war keep voting for those who do?


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Why do we take pride in war? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3486840 - 12/12/04 05:39 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Answer- because to most people there is no other choice.


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