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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Shrooms make you Schizoid?
    #348464 -

This is something I was discussing with someone recently, this person said the following in regards to taking mushrooms:

"Schizoid. It can and it will during a bad trip, no matter the dosage or the quantity of use. It could happen to anybody from an inexperience user to an experienced one. The level of instensity varies from mild to psychotic.

There are various archtypes to schizoprenia, and people tripping bad on mush exhibits similar symptons of those archtypes.

1. Paranoid of people
2. Delusional, having unrealistic fantasies
3. Acute panic, acute anxiety
4. Unreasonable fear of dying
5. Depression

Basically, the person's dopamine system is WAY over active, the main culprit for all these symptons."

So is there any truth to this, I've been under the impression this is either not possible or incredibly rare.



_______________________________________
Webmaster of the Shroomery
thor@shroomery.org
http://www.shroomery.org

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #348497 -

Well, yes. On a bad trip people will experience symptoms like paraniod schizophrenia, but this will go away as the trip wears off. However shrooms can trigger schizophrenia or an underlying mental disease, even with a good trip. I don't think its the dopamine that would cause these symptoms, but probally an excess of seratonin, because of its similarity to psilocin.

I wish I had a Kryptonite cross, because then I could keep both Dracula AND Superman away.


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"assumption is the mother of all fuckup" - me

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: PotSmokinHippie]
    #348502 -

Generally if your a mentally healthy person, you've got virtually no chance of developing a mental disease from taking mushrooms. However, if your mad, it'll make you madder.


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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Rainbow]
    #348508 -

hehheh
back in the 60s/70s, there was a comparison: a paranoid schizophrenic sees the universe conspiring to harm him; an acid head sees the universe conpiring to help him...
YMMV



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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: gnrm23]
    #348620 -

gnrm: you are right on once again....

Thor: Actually I have heard about this happening. Moreover, I have FELT it happening. I can imagine very clearly a personality shattering experience that leaves someone clinically insane. And it sure as hell can be done deliberately if you know what you are doing. Envision yourself tripping with cannibal Lektor (sp?) and you'll know what I am talking about. (Now-now, stop envisioning that, I was just kidding.... stop crying, noone's trying to eat you... damn... )

-------
just another attempt of a finger to point at itself

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #348671 -

The way I understand it...you can go permanently schitzo while on shrooms/LSD only if you already have an underlying problem with schitzophrenia.

I do agree, though, that anyone can experience schitzo-like symptoms while tripping. The way I see it, a "trip" is really just a drug-induced, short-term case of schitzophrenia. I actually was just involved in a study on schitzophrenia as a control subject (they gave me an MRI and compared my brain to that of a schitzo with similar background). I was asked if I had taken LSD or psilosybe mushrooms before, because there were some worries about the drugs affecting the MRI pictures - possible giving false signs of schitzophrenia. Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with that, except as a point that there are some correllations between a "trip" and actual schitzophrenia.

As for that dopamine thing....I don't think that's the case. Don't hold me to that statement....but I'm pretty sure on this one. I think I read somewhere that the reason most hallucinogens are not addictive is because of their total lack of activity at dopamine receptors.

-----------------------
You, too, can become a Sideburn Wearing Drug Buddy.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #348789 -

Well, an individual experiencing a bum ride will definitely experience some of those symptoms. Though, just like PotSmokinHippie stated, these symptoms go away after the trip is over and done with.

Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!

Edited by Hydro on 06/25/01 07:23 PM.



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Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Hydro]
    #348794 -

trendal sayd all..
i've found that cocaine and heroin abuser go skizoid when do psychedelics, especially mushrooms...

IL_FUNGO_SACRO la coltivazione, gli enteogeni, in italiano
Support the FSR

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: CLuB99]
    #349577 -

that happened to me once thor, just not permanently, 1996 ate a few red tim learys with the skull and crossbones with a few of my chick friends. I go over to this girls house and all of the sudden I am lying on the ground and one is straddling me and the other one is pulling my arms saying "Do you want some candy?'' I jumped up and ran all the way to a friends house, oh yeah that same day we were gonna smoke some bammer and I was frying too hard to de seed the pot, so I handed it to one of the girls and asked her to do it, she packs up the pipe and it was all stems and seeds and I started shouting "you stupid bitch why did you pack a bowl of seeds and stems'' and threw the pipe back to her, then she handed it back to me and it was de seeded......
yeah I also found out what candy was and was pissed that I left and did not eat their candy
after that I vowed never to smoke shit weed anymore

=====================================
but its much too late, when the fear is gone...

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Morphrying]
    #349731 -

I truely believe that people who are insane or crazy are just people who are really smart and figure to much out, so they begin to go into there own world of thinking. The mind is a very powerful thing.

Here's a question to ask yourself...

Do you control your mind, or does your mind control you?

I wont answer this right away. Ill let you, the people descide.



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"If anything is worth doing, it's worth doing right."
"Mother Mary won't you whisper
something but what's past and done. "

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Mastaba]
    #349782 -

you cant seperate yourself from your mind



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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Mastaba]
    #349872 -

Yeah, are you implying that you are not the mind? And what the hell is "control"?

-------
just another attempt of a finger to point at itself

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: gribochek]
    #350079 -

When you are under the influence of psychedelic drugs you are basically a schizophrenic. People have different reactions to them...Some people will act "hebephrenic" some "catatonic" some "paranoid". The chemistry of your brain under the influence of psychedelics and the chemistry of schizo's is basically the same. But one thing I want to debunk is schizo's have an excess of both dopamine and serotonin. When you are under the influence of a psychedelic drug you have excess serotonin only, not dopamine. That is what ecstacy is, and why it is so habit forming. You get the "schizo" effects of a psychedelic, with the feel good dopamine effects of speed. Nobody with family history of schizophrenia or any bipolar disorder should use psychedelic drugs, they can set it off - and that would suck.



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We are ghosts to ourselves as soon as we take the moment for granted. Troydank

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #350084 -

Well in the past i've been jumped and one time when i did shrooms and i was laying in my bed with my eyes closed i started getting thoughts of people trying to rob me and people trying to start shit with me.. but i simply opend my eyes and it was gone... while it was happening it was scary but i didnt go insane from it or anything...



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They chopped her goddam head off right there in the parking lot. Then they cut all kinds of holes in her head and sucked the blood out. I think they were after the pineal gland.

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: conphormant]
    #350087 -

Damn, my brother and father have some kind of mental disorder, no really sure what. My father is accessive compulsive(and who knows what else), and my brother is depresive, bipolar something like that. Also, both of my grand fathers have had alzheimers.... Looks kind of crappy for me.



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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #350164 -

It is not the same thing--> Just simmilar.
Remember that shizos have phisiological changes in brain too. It is not just chemistry. Second thing is schisophrenia is bad in real life because it lasts forever. I would never choose to be on shrooms all the time. I could not connect anything.
But to see what schizos think (positive things); it is nothing bad. As title said they stay doors of perception

____________________________________
Friend to PGF, the Last Resort of lucidity in Western Hemisphere (sp?)

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #350180 -

Last night i was burning out in my room playin my gameboy and it was all good, then i layed down and all of the sudden started to feel fear and my stomach got feeling active(like i was nervous). It was damn scary so i turned my light on and played some mo gameboy and it would go away and then come back and so on....eventually i tried layin down again and was able to pass out...im scared i got some kind of mental disease...any imput is very appreciated =D

"Dark is not the opposite of light, it's the absence of light."


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"Dark is not the opposite of light, it's the absence of light."

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: BeeBoi]
    #350249 -

Buy playstation 2. you wont have time to think about gut feelings :)

____________________________________
Friend to PGF, the Last Resort of lucidity in Western Hemisphere (sp?)

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Mastaba]
    #350256 -

> Do you control your mind, or does your mind control you?

You are your mind, as your mind is you. Your mind is your entire world. It is what you make of it, and you have that control. You control your world.

Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!


--------------------
Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Hydro]
    #350260 -

In reply to:

You are your mind, as your mind is you. Your mind is your entire world. It is what you make of it, and you have that control. You control your world.



i like the way you put that Hydro, it is so true.

`You might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see"!' -- Madd Hatter

We're all MADD here...


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So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Mastaba]
    #350522 -

what if i got hit in the head real bad and got a concussion? think itll get worse?



--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Thor]
    #350912 -

Very right, conphormant:

I have been lately reading some books about psychology from my sister, who studied it, and that?s is morelikely what it said. Schizo brains contain a excessive activity of the NT dopamine, probably due to a larger proportion of the receptors of such NT. Any amphetamine, MDMA (extasi) included, exarcebates the activity of Dopamine in the brain, being such use fatal in a schizophrenic brain.
On the other side, LSD and Psylocibin are more similar in structure to the neurottansmiters serotonin and neropinephrine. So I believe (only my opinion) shrooms won?t get you schizo -as long as we use our vocabulary properly, instead of messing up concepts by rambling...
It is true that -some- schizo brains are also different to "normal" ones; still, also normal brains may be schizophrenic, though in these cases it is easier to treat.
Schizophrenia is believed to be caused due to:
a)biological basis: genetic predisposition, neural missadjustments...
b)behavorial basis: parental lose, bizarre parental comunication, self-alienation...
c)social, familiar margination, radical exclussion, trauma...
---

There are many disorders making pray out of society, and schizophrenia is not always the word to be used to denominate an aparent disorder. Depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, manias (phobias), bipolar disorder (mood constantly switching from depression to a very agitated state---remember the beats: "raving maniacs"?), anti-social personality (Kid?) -sociopath, narcisst disorder,,,

I am going to bed, what did I just write>?


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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: trendal]
    #350921 -

A long time ago i believe it was the late 50's early 60's correct me if i'm wrong. But any way the date isn't really important the fact is psychologists began taking lsd because they thought that the effects would show them what being schitzophrenic was like. Well a bunch of the students they were teaching and giving it to started doing it recreationally, and when further studies were done they found that lsd is nothing like being schitzophrenic in fact they have found that pcp gives an accurate feeling of what schitzophrenia is like. Do your own research at erowid.org and you will find that lsd and shrooms are just as safe as marijuana, if you are healthy to begin with. If you have a history of mental illness then don't take them because they have been know to bring out latent mental problems, But THEY DO NOT CAUSE THEM. And there is no such thing as a permanent trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to erowid and learn the truth and stop all the stupid rumors surrounding acid and shrooms!!!



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love the life you live, live the life you love

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: conphormant]
    #350929 -

"The chemistry of your brain under the influence of psychedelics and the chemistry of schizo's is basically the same."
Where in the hell did you hear that!!!! Because it is still unknown as too how exactly hallucinagens do what they do to make you trip. It is a mystery that has only been guessed at and not discovered so don't be making shit up or mindlessly repeating some parternship for a drug free america bull shit man.
peace and stop the rumors



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love the life you live, live the life you love

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Rashiki]
    #351041 -

You have a problem, Rashiki.

First off, the statement "The chemistry of your brain under the influence of psychedelics and the chemistry of schizo's is basically the same" is a very good statement. A lot of research has been done on the issue of just how hallucinogens work. Not enough, granted, but some.

Most hallucinogens appear to work by affecting the serotonin receptors in your brain. I'm too lazy to look it up right now (long day) but didn't someone here say that one of the theorized causes of schitzophrenia were disorders involving serotonin/dopamine? So that statement that you so readily bashed is, in fact, valid enough.

It's perfectly fine for you to dissagree with that statement. Your opinion is your opinion. But to say "don't be making shit up or mindlessly repeating some parternship for a drug free america bull shit man" makes you come off as a real jackass.

-----------------------
You, too, can become a Sideburn Wearing Drug Buddy.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: trendal]
    #351106 -

the fact of the matter is that there is not enough info to say something like he said. No one knows exactly just what goes on in the brain when you are tripping what I am saying is that the relationship between tripping on lsd and schitzophrenia has been researched and concluded that tripping on lsd is not like being schitzophrenic nor does tripping cause schitzophrenia. Just because the two involve the same chemicals doesn't make the chemistry the same. For instance one could be a severe lack of serotonin and the other a distortion of serotonin-not the same chemistry. Take X for example it causes a large release serotonin yet it is clearly not the same chemistry although it involves the same chemicals. Take this for example both ecstasy and lsd have something to do with serotonin but it is definately not the same chemistry. In the same way both lsd and schitzophrenia have something to do with serotonin, but it is not the same chemistry.
by the way sorry if the comment bothered anyone. please accept my appologies it has been one of those days for me too.
peace and love to all.



--------------------
love the life you live, live the life you love

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: thePilgrim_0]
    #351141 -

> anti-social personality (Kid?) -sociopath

Sociopath is a worse degree of Anti-social personality disorder. Psychopath is the worst degree of it. The diagnostic criteria for ASPD is as follows:

There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

- Yes, but probably everyone on this board would meet this criteria.

deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

- Other than internet use (aliases), I don't meet this criteria on nearly a regular basis.

impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

- nope.

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

-nope.

reckless disregard for safety of self or others

- Safety of others, yes, but not a reckless disregard. Safety of self, no.

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

- nope.

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

- Sometimes.

The individual is at least age 18 years.

- Yes.

There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years.

- Nope.

The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.

- I'm neither schizophrenic nor bipolar.


I fully meet 1 of the diagnostic criteria and perhaps 2. I've also read a lot of books about ASPD, sociopathy and psychopathic personality disorder. I've checked out Robert Hare's psychopathy checklist. Also, I happen to know a forensic psychiatrist (she works with psychopaths). I am not anywhere near diagnosable with ASPD, nor any other personality disorder for that matter. I don't know why you'd think I do based on my online persona.

A real psychopath, sociopath, and/or anti-social personality really sticks out.



or the European criteria if you prefer:Personality disorder, usually coming to attention because of a gross disparity between behaviour and the prevailing social norms, and characterized by at least 3 of the following:

(a) callous unconcern for the feelings of others;

- Yes, though not all others, which would really make this a maybe.

(b) gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules and obligations;

- No.

(c) incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;

- No.

(d) very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;

- No.

(e) incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment;

- No.

(f) marked proneness to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations, for the behaviour that has brought the patient into conflict with society.

- By no means a "marked proneness", more of an opportunist. Usually the antisocial personality will rationalize his/her responsibility away even when evidence is stacked against them (eg// Ted Bundy and the Chi Omega murders).

There may also be persistent irritability as an associated feature. Conduct disorder during childhood and adolescence, though not invariably present, may further support the diagnosis.

- Irritability is on an off, and typically not present during face to face interactions. No conduct disorder.


If you want to read some really amusing examples, to get a feel for it, of what psychopathic personality disorder really makes people like, read Hervey Cleckley's _Mask of Sanity_. They are some truly fucked up people. One notable feature of the antisocial personality is that the antisocial behaviour is typically carried out for no real reason (lack of motive) and the person has a shockingly shallow affect (shallow emotions), as well as an astonishing lack of anxiety.



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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Kid]
    #351266 -

Sch. is in matter of fact group of simmilar diseases. SIMMILAR. Next, do not any of you ever try to believe LSD or SHROOMs are safe for you cause they do not effect dopamine sites. They are WELL KNOW as inducers of psychosis. I know MANY people who where or where not diagnosed as schyzos -ut where kind of weird-, and some of them decided to play with halucinogens. Drug effects on imbalanced brain chemistry where too strong to them, and most of them would enter into acute state of their illness.
This is no bullshit, so if you guys have possibilitie of being latently sick, DO NOT PLAY with THESE DRUGS. You can play with MJ, with H but must never play with LSD or shrooms - even I believe shrooms are safer-.
But if you choose to play with them, you have to be aware that you are risking a LOT.

____________________________________
Friend to PGF, the Last Resort of lucidity in Western Hemisphere (sp?)

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Crobih]
    #351296 -

Bah. Are you saying there are no schizophrenic members of the Native American Church? Psychedelics, taken in the proper environment, can be safely used by anyone.


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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Pynchon]
    #351549 -

Its up to one. But I and medical literature are hardly against it. Unless you love being schizoid.

____________________________________
Friend to PGF, the Last Resort of lucidity in Western Hemisphere (sp?)

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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: Crobih]
    #351590 -

Yeah thats really good advice crobih, i dont think people with mental illness should take psycedelics because even everyday reality is overwhelming for them so imagine what tripping would be like for them


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Re: Shrooms make you Schizoid? [Re: missulena]
    #351766 -

I accept that a person with latent schizophrenia is more likely to develop the illness after being exposed to psychedelic drugs, but I'm not so sure I believe that someone who is ALREADY schizophrenic is more prone to having an "overwhelming" trip than anyone else. In my experience, its the "straight" people who end up out of their depth more often. But I could be wrong, and I would genuinely like to know more about this subject...anyone have any references?


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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