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OfflineLupuz
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Decontaminating from the ground up
    #3475726 - 12/10/04 01:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've just bought a new house and when the termite guys were out they noticed mold growing in the crawl space under the house.  The termite guys said they'd clean it up but the bastards made me pay $600 just to start the termite contract with them.  Do you guys have any advice on how to get/keep this shit out. 

I want to make the house as contam free as possible so any helpful advice or links would be appreciated.  I plan on making one of the bathrooms a clean room where I'll do my inoculations, casings, etc. but the terrarium will be in a carpeted closet and I know that carpet is usually a great hiding place for bacteria (and from the looks of my carpet it probably is).  I know it is considered pretty rare that a fully colonized cake/casing becomes contaminated but I'm trying to prepare for everything before I begin.  Thanks for your help.

Lupuz

:confused:


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: Lupuz]
    #3475925 - 12/10/04 02:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I am not exactly an expert... but!

I do know that a bathroom might be the last place that you want to turn into a clean-room. Tons of bacteria all over/under the tiolet, walls, cieling, fixtures...

You see, bathrooms are usually cold, and people usually have fans in there. The bathroom sucks ALL the crap from your entire house into that room, not to mention the lingering air-born stuff that rises from the toilet, when you use it. Since the walls/fixtures are always colder, they always get condensation (not always large enough to see, which collects these floating germs/spores/contams.) Even if you were a doctor, and you were married to Mrs. Clean, chances are that your bathroom door handle and sink handles alone would be enough to cause severe problems. The reason that bathrooms don't APEAR to be so bad, is that the latex paints for bathrooms have strong antibacterial chemicals, and so do most fixtures that are not glass. Those that don't have antibacterial/antifungus are just galss/porcelean.

I would suggest getting a large roll of painters plastic tarp, some PVC and building a tiny cleanroom that can easily be cleaned/disposed of. It is much more secure. Just run a small personal hepa filter, attached to the top, for an hour before using the room.

(Suck fresh air from your house into the blower, and out into the clean-room area. That is a positive pressure setup, which should ensure that you don't keep sucking carpet contams up into the filter. That would happen if you left it inside the clean-room, on the floor.)


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3475951 - 12/10/04 02:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

As for the EXTERIOR mold problem... (Do not use indoors)

Pure (3%) peroxide will work...

Lime will work (The stuff for neutralizing acid in lawns)

and I am sure that vinegar would work also...

The termite/ant control chemicals are closely related to sugars or contain sugars... so that they find it desireable and consume it. You are just seeing what happens if you use too much in a moist/shady area.


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Edited by LaughingJim (12/10/04 02:18 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3475998 - 12/10/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Bleach and alcohol. Lots of bleach. It will clean it up.

A bathroom, if cleaned well, is the absolute best place in alot of houses for a clean room. In my apartment, it is the smallest room :thumbup:. Its the only room with no carpeting or clothing whatsoever to hold spores :thumbup:. Its the only room with no ac vent, so no air flow when door is closed :thumbup:. I work in my bathroom for everything from casing, innoculations, grain to grain transfers, agar work, prints, syringes, liquid cultures, EVERYTHING. I keep it spotless though. Take a shower before hand..two HEPAs then go in to run for 2 hours prior to working, remove all towels and clothing type things, rugs whatever..wipe down everything with some sort of tile cleaner containing bleach..spray lysol in the air and leave the bathroom for 2 hours..spray lysol before entering and enter wearing minimal clothing, gloves and a paint mask. Make sure heat is off since you want a COLD environment (worse for mold).

Also check out the store for something you can pour on your carpet that might kill mold stuff and vaccum well. You could also lay plastic sheeting down. Get the rolls at ACE hardware..my actual floor of my (closets) terreriums (both of them) is carpet..covered and taped with plastic well though, it has not been an issue. I used 2 boxes of tacks and 4 rolls of clear duct tape per closet though..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineLupuz
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Registered: 08/19/03
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3476140 - 12/10/04 02:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

LaughingJim - thanks for your quick reply. I read a tech somewhere detailing how to make a bathroom into a clean room but I like your idea of a small temporary clean room much better. It does make sense that a bathroom would have more contams than anywhere else if it's not cleaned by a hardcore tweaker. Do you have pics or plans for such a room? If not, are you talking about something like a glovebox or truly a small room of pvc and plastic.

As far as under the house (and please forgive me if I sound stupid - I'm just trying to make sure I have everything right), I need to spray peroxide (diluted? if so by how much) over everything? I guess it wouldn't hurt and I'd feel a lot better knowing there's not something growing under my house. As for the lime, it comes as a powder (if I'm thinking of the same thing). Do I spread the powder throughout the crawl space or should it be concentrated somewhere?

I realize your not an expert at this but I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks again.

Lupuz


--------------------
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisiblePeterthinks
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: Lupuz]
    #3476186 - 12/10/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Tarp it,wipe it and make the pressure greater in that room greater than the rest of the house with filtered air.
failing that work in a glove box and filter your TITs and incubator
:jester:


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Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Offlineatmosphere
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: Peterthinks]
    #3476209 - 12/10/04 03:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Keep the Rh in your new pad under 50 to prevent harmful mold growth!


--------------------
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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: atmosphere]
    #3476291 - 12/10/04 03:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Peroxide wont do anything.

Perhaps I should have just saved my typing for those who want to listen. Hell what the fuck do I know about being clean enough to grow mushrooms anyways.

Good luck in your growing!


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3476363 - 12/10/04 03:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Peroxide won't kill mold? (I have do disagree with that one scat... But you are still #1 on my advice absorption, except on killing mold with peroxide!) http://www.h2o2-4u.com/

I only suggested peroxide, as opposed to bleach, because of the caustic reaction and long term effects of using bleach within a household. The only reason I bleach my clothing, is for sanitaion, and because most of the bleach is removed down the drain. Bleach is highly cancerous when used in places that you constantly inhale, or consume food off of. (Resturants only allow one cap full per ten gallons of water, and that was because they thought it would help the situation with salmonilla, which has been proven to be a flase effort which has no effect.)


--------------------
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OfflineLupuz
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: atmosphere]
    #3476366 - 12/10/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Atmosphere - how do you suggest controlling the RH under the house?  I guess I could go with a dehumidifier but isn't there an easier way?  It's funny, everything I've ever read on the shroomery about RH is ways to get it up.  Do I do just the opposite?  Maybe I can model the crawlspace after some newb's terrarium, there never seems to be a high enough RH in those :lol: .  Oh well, just a thought.


--------------------
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3476372 - 12/10/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Creating plans for the cleanroom... colapseable PVC version.

By the way, Great pics Scat! (Can you feel the envy!)

You won't like my answer... but (Terrarium lover)

First, you need to add WATERPROOF insulation... The pink Foamular(R) is the best, followed by the white Polar(R), followed by foil bubble wrap insulation (Forgot the band name)...

The cheapest way (In the long run) is with the foil wrap stuff. It will have the strongest effect. (Heat radiative R19, Cold barrier R9) You just staple it in place, it uses the air space from the floor to the foil as extra insulation. Eg, you don't staple it directly to the floor, you staple it between the rafters, about 2" from the floor boards, leaving a 2" gap of air. (Works great!)

The best way would be to use 1" - 2" Foamular (PinkStuff) stuffed against the floor, between the rafters. Followed by The foil stuff, stapled on the outside of the rafters. (Total R30 Thermal, R20 Cold.)

The cheapest way would be to use the thin 1/4" pink stuff, or 1/2" white Polar(R) stuff, and just cover the rafters, leaving the full 8-10" air gap... (Using it as a mild Rvalue and 100% moisture barrier.

----------------------

Now that leads me to this part... You need to do all of the above, so that you can do this!

You need two holes, about 2" around, on opposite sides of the building crawl-space. Cover them with screen. (That's it, your moisture will be reduced to outside humidity within about a month!) However, without the insulation, it will get colder/hotter in your house.

Alterntively, you could throw some plastic painters plastic down there, and cover it with sand. This will keep surface moisture from comming back up, but not help the moisture problem from the fact that the ground is 10F colder than the surrounding air. (Which is also why the insulation helps... Your hot moist home air hits the cold ground and condensation forms, being absorbed/released from the ground.)


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Don't forget to RATE us if you think we are offering GOOD or BAD advice, Thank-you!

I participate in the PROTEIN FOLDING PROGRAM helping the shroomery to help others,
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Edited by LaughingJim (12/10/04 03:47 PM)


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3476380 - 12/10/04 03:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

scatmanrav

Newbies  What can you say...

:projectile:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


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OfflineLupuz
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: Lupuz]
    #3476452 - 12/10/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't mean to ignore you scatman. I wasn't implying that you didn't know what you were doing, although I'm glad it made you break out the mycoporn. Like I mentioned earlier, I've read the tek about how to turn your bathroom into a clean room, I was just intrigued with the idea of creating a collapsible, portable clean room. Also, I'm not real enthusiastic about cleaning my bathroom as thoroughly as I'd think would be necessary, although if it's the best thing to do, i'll suck it up and do it.


--------------------
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: KaptKid]
    #3476464 - 12/10/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

3% h202 will not kill large amounds of mold. You can order a stronger concentration online which will affect them but bleach will do it much better. If you must use h202 use at least 35%..this is the only concentration I have found to kill molds and ONLY after submerging a contamed casing in it for 18 hours. Neither myc nor mold grew after that.

I've already read that site before..I need not read it again. Spraying straight 3% on mold will only cause the mold to create peroxidase and break it down to almost nothing. I guess it would be better then cleaning with straight water....


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlineatomic1
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: Lupuz]
    #3476505 - 12/10/04 04:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You'd rather build a collapsible, portable clean room than wipe down your countertops and shit? If you're that worried about it you could build a cheap little glovebox out of a clear tub but I'd listen to the experienced if i were you, no disrespect.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: atomic1]
    #3476524 - 12/10/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

A glovebox or flowhood by the way IS definatly a way to go..it just can be difficult to do 60 grain to grain transfers in a glovebox so I have always just used my bathroom as one. A seperate built clean room can also work but is more work and not really needed..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLupuz
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3476743 - 12/10/04 04:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Atomic, I guess I'm over thinking things a bit. When I think of sanitizing my bathroom what comes to mind isn't wipping down a few countertops. I think of trying to get every nook and cranny and the more I think about it the less I'd have to do. I've remodeled everything so it's not like there would be a great deal of contams already there. My original thought was to do the cleanroom in the bathroom but I was interested in LaughingJim's idea of building a portable clean room.

Honestly, the clean room is less of a worry to me right now than the mold under the house. With a little elbow grease and a shitload of bleach I can make a clean room but I've got to get the mold out from under my house. Thanks for the tips for that LaughingJim, I happen to have quite a bit of that pink insulation board and will try your suggestion.


--------------------
Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3476781 - 12/10/04 04:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Here is the general setup...

The PVC pipes are connected by "T" connections, except at the top, which are "Elbows". The only parts that are glued are...

Three parts make an arch, Two verticals and one horizontal.
The entire arch with the elbows, (Top archs) are glued.
Those arches, (Front and Back), sit in two side arches, which are made with "T"'s not elbows, which sit on... etc...

You only glue the arches. Then you stack the arches, so that the stand can still fold flat after flipping the tray up.

If you need to totally break it down, just pull each arch apart, should leave you with about 8 arches to pack, and one tray.

I would reccomend making the tray out of MDF 3/4" and covering with a stainless steel sheet, mirror, pictureframe glass, etc...

The tray is held on with normal pipe mounts that they use to mount pipes to walls. Any strap with holes will work, I just like the prefab mounts, as you can put felt between teh strap and the pipe, to make it move better... Use a washer under the mount screws to keep the mount from squeezing the PVC too tight.



--------------------
Don't forget to RATE us if you think we are offering GOOD or BAD advice, Thank-you!

I participate in the PROTEIN FOLDING PROGRAM helping the shroomery to help others,
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I support www.shroomery.org (Team # 12679)


Edited by LaughingJim (12/10/04 04:55 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: Lupuz]
    #3476792 - 12/10/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

By the way thats not my tek..just another person who had the same great idea..I read the same tek when I started out.

And the reason I did suggest bleach is because we arent talking about somwhere hes gonna be sticking his nose..its under the house..in the house minor bleach and alochol should be used since 70% alcohol is much stronger then 3% H202 and will evaporate quickly as well.

I missed the comment on insulation but this sounds good..fiberglass would be non nutrious and not hold water..help stop it from spreading. Not that outside it should be much of an issue (where you think your contaminated jars are gonna go..gotta empty them outside)..its inside thats really the issue and keeping the inside clean from the outside by not bringing things in on you.

One of them dealies that hook up to your hose and squirt high pressured water (maybe not a pressure cleaner, expensive) for cleaning cars or whatever would help too..just bleach water instead of soap water..probably need some elbox grease as well too though.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Decontaminating from the ground up [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3476838 - 12/10/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

(Fiberglass = bad) No matter what they tell you! They only use it because it is highly proffitable. Ask any home owner that has a house older than 10 years... insulation seems to stop working, because it absorbs moisture and never releases it. (Major NO under buildings, and where outside contact is present!)

Damp insulation has an R2 value... (Polly insulation never absorbs water)

Come to my basement dungeon, I will show you the wrong-doings of those who insist that fibergalss and blown-in insulation works! I have spent the past five years undoing thier mess, they will do anything to make an extra buck! These morons even insulated free standing walls, with no rooms attached... Great, my supports are warm!


--------------------
Don't forget to RATE us if you think we are offering GOOD or BAD advice, Thank-you!

I participate in the PROTEIN FOLDING PROGRAM helping the shroomery to help others,
FOLDING.STANFORD.EDU
I support www.shroomery.org (Team # 12679)


Edited by LaughingJim (12/10/04 05:09 PM)


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