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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: The_Green_Glow]
    #4059291 - 04/15/05 02:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No problem! :heart: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: niteowl]
    #4059351 - 04/15/05 02:49 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

If you actually thought that the fungus itself had feelings......now who is making up a "false experience"

Not me. Care to wager that I can dig up some posts making that claim?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Swami]
    #4059424 - 04/15/05 03:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Wow I don't see why it matters at all if shrooms put you in contact with part of yourself, or a spirit, or the plant itself. What happens to one because of the experience is what matters, don't you think? We just don't know the answer to the question definitively. Why all the battle? Just really curious what one might hope to accomplish with this. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here. I'm just really curious. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedr0mni
My Own Messiah
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Icelander]
    #4060711 - 04/15/05 09:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Wow I don't see why it matters at all if shrooms put you in contact with part of yourself, or a spirit, or the plant itself. What happens to one because of the experience is what matters, don't you think? We just don't know the answer to the question definitively. Why all the battle? Just really curious what one might hope to accomplish with this. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here. I'm just really curious. :mushroom2:




RIGHT!?

Who the fuck cares if the spirits are external or internal, or even if you are just frying your brain and talking to yourself? Either way it's the experiance that matters, insn't it? Life goes on within AND without you... and whose to say that the "spirits" are only either internal or external?

Doesn't god live within all of us, and us in God? Separating the two makes it impossible to see the whole picture IN MY OPINION

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: Swami]
    #4098415 - 04/26/05 10:22 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Please explain ALL of the negative reports WITHOUT using vague apologies and New Agian double-speak. Thank you.




It's often too much to handle (in the short term) being blown apart like that for many who cannot accept a complete ontological meltdown and reformation.

Also the trip experience itself may be harrowing, a lot of people want a blanket to pull over themselves, however psilocybin pulls all the covers back. Seeing so deep and so unobstructed by oneself is pretty scary a lot of the time.

Personally I don't see these compounds as something to make a person feel good in the immediacy, rather as a means to deep insight and understanding of oneself and the universe. The view is so broad, it is something that leaves the participant amazed and often shocked. Some will reject and close off to the experience so fearful are they of the expanded universe where their definition of themselves fails. That's fine, they can go back to their rational little world....except they know deep down that there is more than just the rationally explainable in life.

n a purely physical level the fact is that there has never been a recorded death from magic mushrooms and it has been calculated that one would have to consume some 65 kilos of mushrooms in order to kill oneself....pretty benign to say the least.

You might also have noticed I stated: "But if you need to be taught a lesson...and you know it....you cannot avoid it....". I didn't simply state it was all roses and smiles. The thing is with shrooms and with life that facing challenge and the bewilderment that comes with it, as well as new knowledge and experience, is very rewarding to those who dare.

Difficulty in acceptance and uncomfortable episiodes are quite normal - as with the life experience itslf.....rememeber I said we are looking at a metaphor for life? Would you tell people to stop hving babies, or not chllenge themselves because they might face difficulty? The fact is that overall Life itself is a positive experience of (self) discovery despite all the difficulty and negative forces that one faces....much the same with the shrooms, it's just another level.

Quote:

C:....and those who study us
S: I rest my case.




You are implying that I am psychotic. However this is not the case. I think if you speak to anyone who is prepared to be open, and I mean ANYONE - any human being - they will admit they hear voices and have a head that fills with images....even the straight people. The mind is a bubbling, lurching, crazy vehicle that jabbers to us, puts us off and spurs us on. It became a taboo to admit such things since it was deemed to be madness.....however it is true and actually a quite normal state of being.

And why would another lifeform not take interst in us? We are so interested in the lifeforms around us on this planet, we study them as closely as possible. We also study the planet itself and we look to the stars. I think it s entirely feasible that other species may likewise take interest in us.

Quote:

our bodies; even our "deep" bodies (WTF that means!) are not made of light. I consulted a surgeon friend and Grey's Anatomy. There are no photoluminescent human parts.




Actually the DNA emits super weak laser light. I'm not saying this is our body of light but it is true. It is super weak so it is extremely low level intensity....however it is laser light which is specific sharp, and precise. It is not a simple luminesent glow. The DNA is a crystal that emits laser light.

Now the DNA is the core of our being, the core of all biological life, it is the language of biology and it can throw up pretty much any physical form it wishes. It throws up hardlight physical beings.

Look at where we come from. The Sun emits light which is the initial building block of all life, plants convert this light into matter and we than ingest this and survive through breaking that matter back down again. Follow the energy pathway and you will see at the source is light...all things are made from this light, and our DNA emits it both in laser form and in the myriad of physical forms that cover this planet.

As well as this, if one studies the body one will see that we have a level of being that is electrical, or pure formles energy that flows around our circuits. Not visible light, but still pure electromagnetic radiation. When I originally spoke of a body of light I was using the term somewhat generally, the form of that light may not be in the normally visible spectrum, but it is pure unbridled energy. (Infra Red, UV, Gamma...whatever....like the Sun's light not all light is viewable to our everyday human eyes) We are all emiting this energy and it is a form of light - the pureness of the source, the powersource of our physical beings...perhaps it is even our soul.

I may not explain things as well as I wish, the monkey language I possess and my own skill at explanation can only grasp at the edges of what is beheld inside.

anyway: :ass:

-exerpt from "Autobiography of a Swami"-  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3450271/page//fpart/1/vc/1

"the entire experience changed to an incredibly, amazing journey into the time-stream of life. With each thrust, I could see all the cycles of the universe; stars being born and dying, electrons circling nuclei, the seasons and rhythms of change. Even weirder was that I became/saw my ancestors mating all the way back, regressing to simpler and simpler lifeforms to the primordial soup; even unto the Original Source. (Sorry, I am NOT going to spoil the mystery for you guys!) It was an infinite mirror regression of all the copulating it took for me to arrive on the planet. It was humbling and yet overwhelming and I truly realized (not merely intellectually) that I am just a channel for the force of Life."

...and that was just LSD...

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: Swami]
    #4102018 - 04/27/05 08:38 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

our bodies; even our "deep" bodies (WTF that means!) are not made of light. I consulted a surgeon friend and Grey's Anatomy. There are no photoluminescent human parts.




I was having a little think after that last post I made and I remembered that in fact the light emitted by our DNA is thoroughly within the visible spectrum. So you see Swami, our deepest body, the centre of our beings, the most protected part of our being that contains all the information from which we are built and from which all biological life is photo luminescent. Our deep body it certainly is. Yes the DNA emits strutured holographic light my friend.

You know I often can't help but speculate that DNA may well be an interface between the spiritual and the physical. Somehow the soul manifests a myriad of forms in the physical world through the medium of DNA. It's quite amazing.

Anyway here is some reading for you:

DNA And Light

DNA is the central storage repository for light in our body and is twisted around itself in a double helix, which can turn right or left. It belongs to the group of nucleic acids, of which there are two chains: the DNA and the RNA. DNA and RNA are built like a helix. Both strands form the structure and consist of sugars and phosphate groups that show a basic reaction.

The links are attached to the sugars and are basic. However, there are only four bases in the DNA: adenine, thymine, cytosine, and guanine. Only recently have researchers realized that cells do not simply absorb light but emit it coherently; the DNA and RNA molecules are a laser-active medium and can produce an optical hologram that communicates with the resonance of the background fields of our Earth and the planets as well as galaxies.

This means that they can give off light in a non-chaotic manner. Coherency is the ability of waves to overlap, where spatially different sources of photons either strengthen or weaken each other. This results in a structured state where waves can form a coherent and communicating field, and this field is interactive to a high degree; in the case of non-coherent photons, any interference causes them to collapse within seconds.

Hence, the way ultra-weak luminescent cell radiation works is of significant importance. It does not radiate chaotically, but behaves in a stable manner, phased like a laser-which is light in a coherent form.

Communication turns out to be one of our most basic properties-communication within the system as well as communication with the outside. The aim is to counteract entropy, loss of structure, chaos, a state of high disorder, so as to create and maintain a state of excitement. A high level of order within the body enables an undisturbed flow of information and communication.

This, in turn, maintains the metabolism as well as all other life processes. The building and depletion of cells, the synthesis of proteins, carbohydrates and lipids as well as the flow of neurotransmitters and the entire cell metabolism all work on an extremely rapid transfer of information that can only be achieved by light transmission.

Lack of energy and blockages are signs of disturbance in the flow or process of life. This disturbance can occur on all levels, whether atomic particle or cell, organ or psyche. Hence, any disease can be interpreted as a manifestation of a loss of information and communication with the body!

Life and all particles of a system relate to each other coherently and where they communicate with each other to achieve a sensible cooperation in order to produce the optimal condition for the entire system. Light emission is strongest whenever DNA is reproduced.

The DNA emits about 90% of the biophotons in the cell nucleus. The DNA is an excellent storage medium for light and thus also for oxygen because of its form, the double helix. Perhaps this is why DNA is the basis for all processes occurring in the body-and thus also participates in metabolism.

At least two functions are currently assigned to the DNA: the coding of genetic information, which is passed onto the next generation in the germ cell, and the storing of information to build all cell components. The coherent light from the DNA controls all-important biochemical and changing processes. These processes are the result of information carried by photons. DNA and RNA produce optical holograms and are in resonance with all background fields.

http://www.mercola.com/fcgi/pf/2002/aug/21/biophoton.htm

A thread of DNA is much smaller than the visible light humans perceive. Even the most powerful optical microscopes can not reveal it, because DNA is approximately 120 times narrower than the smallest wavelength of visible light.

The nucleus of a cell is equivalent in volume to 2-millionths of a pinhead. The two-yard thread of DNA packs into this minute volume by coiling up endlessly on itself, thereby reconciling extreme length and infinitesimal smallness, like mythical serpents.

In the early 1980s, thanks to the development of a sophisticated measurement device, a team of scientists demonstrated that the cells of all living beings emit photons at a rate of up to approximately 100 units per second and per square centimeter of surface area. They also showed that DNA was the source of this photon emission.

The wavelength at which DNA emits these photons corresponds exactly to the narrow band of visible light: "Its spectral distribution ranges at least from infrared (at about 900 nanometers) to ultraviolet (up to about 200 nanometers)"...DNA emits photons with such regularity that researchers compare the phenomenon to an "ultra-weak laser." (see History of Biophotonics)

Inside the nucleus, DNA coils and uncoils, writhes and wriggles. Scientists often compare the form and movements of this long molecule to those of a snake.

There...is the source of knowledge: DNA, living in water and emitting photons, like an aquatic dragon spitting fire.

http://deoxy.org/wiki/index?CosmicSerpent

Looks like you need to back to the drawing board Swami...maybe becoming your ancestors again might help....you psychotic nutter :mushroom2:

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: CJay]
    #4102664 - 04/27/05 12:41 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

How are "made of light" and "emitting super-weak, invisible to the human eye, light" even remotely the same thing? :yawn:

And why aren't you travelling at 186,000 mph? :doh:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (04/27/05 01:07 PM)

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: Swami]
    #4103478 - 04/27/05 04:00 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

S: I consulted a surgeon friend and Grey's Anatomy. There are no photoluminescent human parts.

C: DNA emits biophotons ie. it is photoluminescent

I emit light - we all do

From our core waves travel at at 186,000 mph out into the universe.

we are a shining light

--

Anyway, I was thinking....about DNA, about holographic laser emissions, about when Swami: "truly realized (not merely intellectually) that I am just a channel for the force of Life."....about that experience you had there Swami going back across all the ages into "cosmic consciousness" as you put it..psychedellically enhanced to high degees of self realisation.....I'm thinking about the deep level of being that brings form into the biological world that stretches in one continuous unbroken holograph emitting line back...back...

And I'm wondering Swami....

after you passed back to the far reaches of biology../on "an incredibly, amazing journey into the time-stream of life"...as you headed to the source down the path of yor DNA..."weirder was that I became/saw my ancestors mating all the way back, regressing to simpler and simpler lifeforms to the primordial soup"....you must have been a bacteria, ejecting genetic material as your reproductive technique perhaps. Simple yet effective as you mixed your genetic spunk into the mass of whirling (sub) cellular life...so then what? RNA? Then what? Simple protein....so tell us where then my friend?

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: Swami]
    #4103594 - 04/27/05 04:39 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

How are "made of light" and "emitting super-weak, invisible to the human eye, light" even remotely the same thing?




visible spectrum, high density information holding laser light.

I may be missing something here, but I think you are quoting me out of context (not only that you are also misquoting). In all the posts I have witten in this thread I think I have only used the expression "made of light" (but I actually say "made of this light") once. This is the context, :


"The Sun emits light which is the initial building block of all life, plants convert this light into matter and we than ingest this and survive through breaking that matter back down again. Follow the energy pathway and you will see at the source is light...all things are made from this light, and our DNA emits it both in laser form and in the myriad of physical forms that cover this planet."

Perhaps you are actually picking holes at my original description of "our deep body of light", well as I said we shine as a light....remember....seeing.....

toward...the source.... :eek:

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: For those of you who see mushrooms as sacred [Re: CJay]
    #4137481 - 05/05/05 12:00 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

DNA may be invisible to the human eye....but it is there

An atom may be invisible to the human eye...but it is there

You may not be able to see the light Swami.....but it is there

:laugh:

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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: CJay]
    #4138455 - 05/05/05 03:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure somebody has said this already, but in reply to Swami's objections this is what I think: Through analysis both self and other are unfindable as anything other than mental symbols we tack onto our experience, thus there is no real self or real other. In reality at it's most basic level there is no identity. Thus nobody owns this body or mind, and nobody is this body or mind either. This goes for the 'external' world. So really since these designations of identity are actually false (though they are functional) there can be no seperation between me and the world 'out there'. External, internal, this mind, body, mushrooms, the air I breathe, and the world around me are inseperably one. Therefore it is hasty to say that a mushroom experience is only a manifestation of MY mind and MY subconcious.

My mind is dependent upon many 'external' things, so the mushroom and the brain are not the only parts of the equation. Nothing is independent. So really, spirits, hallucinations, entities, whatever, are neither self contained or external. What you call them doesn't really matter as long as your view is flexible. Attributing mushroom effects to an entirely external entity, or an entirely internal mental process are both faulty views.

And since pretty much every person or identity exists in dependence on our own thoughts, I see no reason why an identity applied to psilocybin effected conciousness would be any less valid.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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OfflineSuperLazy
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: silversoul7]
    #4143485 - 05/06/05 05:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:


I subscribe to the belief that consciousness does not come from the brain, but is rather filtered through it.  I believe there is a pure collective consciousness from which we all derive our own consciousness. 




:thumbup:


--------------------
" Don't ration your compassion " - unknown

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: SuperLazy]
    #4143584 - 05/06/05 06:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

There is no evidence for this at all, other than some "feel-good" factor.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineSuperLazy
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Swami]
    #4143608 - 05/06/05 06:23 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I can't argue w/ that, I just feel it to be true. I guess a lot of things in my life operate on gut instinct. I don't know, I suppose I don't really give it much thought, since I suppose we'll all die someday but I believe that the "cosmic consciousness" if you will is what lies beyond. Who knows though? I am curious what you think though.... (not trying to be a dick I'm genuinely interested).


--------------------
" Don't ration your compassion " - unknown

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: SuperLazy]
    #4143728 - 05/06/05 06:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

That consiousness is an emergent property of biology; ie. high level neurological function. This is FULLY supported by evidence available to everyone.

As the brain wears, ages or is damaged, consciousness decreases. No mystical X factor need be unnecessarily added.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Swami]
    #4143737 - 05/06/05 06:54 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Actually Swami, there is no evidence that the mind is located in a physical part of the brain.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: faslimy]
    #4143769 - 05/06/05 07:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Do some research on Parallel Distributed Processing then report back as your comment makes no sense.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Swami]
    #4143977 - 05/06/05 08:07 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think you make the mistake of confusing mental processes with the thing that experiences them. Other than consciousness no other thing is completely formless and functions only to know things. I don't think you will find this anywhere in the brain because the brain is comprized of form, matter and structure.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4143998 - 05/06/05 08:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

There is no known consciousness without a brain, so basic reason mandates it is a function of a brain. With your eyes open, you witness the world from the location of your brain (behind your eyes). This really isn't too difficult folks...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: an intelligence that exists independent of the trippee? [Re: Swami]
    #4144147 - 05/06/05 09:14 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Thats just an observation and I do agree it is a logical one. What I'm saying is that scientists can't actually locate the part of the brain which they suspect contains the conscious mind and all its memories. The Hungarian physicist and mathematician John von Neumann once calculated that over the course of an average human lifetime, the brain stores around 280,000,000,000,000,000,000 bits of information. No one can find where all that information is stored in that lump of flesh called a brain.

Edited by faslimy (05/06/05 09:15 PM)

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