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OfflineGnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: matchbook]
    #3370606 - 11/16/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

matchbook said:
I don't think you need to be quite so defensive, after all we are just a bunch of shroomies, right?  I was more amused by your pronunciations then anything.  I don't take it as actual evidence that you're research is flawed.

Anyway, I don't have the time to go through ALL your sources, but those people that you have mentioned that you say back up your research, are they not all on the same quest as you?




No, they are not the same as me. In fact, if you had even looked at our references, you'd see that we reference many counter arguement books... as if every single one of us hadn't heard these silly mianderings our whole lives.



Quote:


Are they not also looking for this 'truth'?  I think you should talk with some very educated people who oppose your work, who do not believe in your theories, and then you can discuss the possible flaws and look at them objectively from both polar views, and come to a conclusion in the middle. 




Yes, some do look for the truth. But if you had any incling of the scandals against John Allegro by John Strugnel and the other members of the International Team of "scholars" who translated the dead sea scrolls, you wouldn't be so quick to drive these unfounded points. See Dead Sea Scrolls Deception, BAR - Biblical Archeology Review, Dr. Robert Eisenman U. of CA at Long Beach, and orders by Israeli goverment to dismiss Strugnel for the 40 year scandal in 1991. In case you are unfamiliar with Allegro, you should be, since you seem to like mushrooms... He wrote the much attacked book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross... world's leading Oxford Philologist... His career was destroyed by these very people I just mentioned, whom were proven in 1991 to work for the Inquisition office of the Vatican... See once again Eisenman.. The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered: The First Complete Translation ond Interpretation of 50 key Documents witheld for over 35 years...

As the very name of the book of Dead Sea Scrolls suggests they were suppressed.

For you to assume that we haven't spent huge ammounts of time putting our arguments in front of all sorts of scholars etc. is absurd.



Quote:


THAT is how true research gets done my friends. 





For one who can't check a single reference, you are the very last person who should be suggesting how to accomplish research... After all, aren't you arguing points of Josephus that were debunked in the early 1800's? You, my friend, are the penicle of scholarly debate...  :thumbdown:

[quote}
There are plenty of educated religious and non-religious people out there who would be useful to work with a research with.  When a group of people research together and one person points something out that is a bit far-out but still within the realm of possibility, everyone wants to believe it if everyone's goal is the same, and so usually they look for ways how to make it seem possible, and then base other "facts" on it. 




Are you still confusing opposing opinions against something as simple as looking in the night sky on Dec. 25th? We've all, every single one of us heard your silly arguments... Our ideas are new to you, and instead of checking our resources, you want us to compair them to the dolts who've never had the experience, or studied occult mythology what so ever. Yet you still assume that we haven't pitted our arguments against like minded people (Edit: like you and other christains) near daily since we started this research 12 years ago. That's like saying Galileo never put his arguments that the earth revolves around the sun for review... He was, for a time, the ONLY one who believed it. Other's opinions of the matter, were that he shut up, so the inquisition made him shut up and put him under house arrest. Just because other's opinions are there, doens't make them correct. General opinion says that mushrooms are dangerous and have no benefit. You and I both no that's not true. We are 100% ready to admit any errors you can find, all we ask is that you substantiate these errors and not blast diatribe all over the net in evidence's place. There are 4 errors to our knowledge in the video... over 50,000 people have seen the video. We recieve feedback on it daily. The first video had about 10 errors, but was do more to limiations than what we could help.

Quote:


I'm not saying ALL facts in the video are flawed, but so darn many of them seem to be. 





Try naming one! Please point out the errors... You just like to ramble diatribe because it opposes what you've been spoon fed.

As I've already stated, the few errors in the video are discussed in our forums...3 or 4... if you have something to point out, point it out!

Quote:


When you guys "explain" these things in the video, somethings are very clear and indisputible, but then others are basically built on a foundation of how bad you want to see something. 





Once again, a remark by someone who admits that they won't check the sources... You're about the worst debater I've come across in a long time. No offence, but your ability to argue...especially when sources are cited is rather pathetic.

Quote:


You should do a better job of defending your whole Constantine bogus, by the way.  Every bit of history I've read points to the same thing... that Constantine made Catholicism, by blending Paganism and Christianity into one, to appease the Pagans.  Heck, it's even cited in many old Catholic writings.... as well as pretty much anything you read.





Wow, you actually agree on this... this is the one point that most people question us on... You have to realize that this is a video with time restrants... it would have been 8 hours to footnote everything so people like you don't have to read references. ... just teasing... I like to be sarcastic. Forgive me.


Quote:


And then so you guys come out and say "well actually, the truth is, Constantine created Christianity and the Christ story by.."  Sorry guys, you can't just say that without backing it up.  Your sources can write whatever they want, but they can't rewrite what history has written
The End (For now)





Once again, that's what the book is for, and the refences... Enjoy your study...  :grin:


Thanks for your feedback... no matter how unfounded.  :crazy2: hehe


--------------------
www.gnosticmedia.com

Edited by TheHemperor (11/16/04 07:10 PM)

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Offlinematchbook
Photographer

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: GnosticMedia]
    #3372181 - 11/16/04 11:47 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Hemperor,
Hey that's fine. I don't appreciate being insulted as being a horrible debater, because I am not. But I am willing to admit that I am not even 1/10 as educated in these matters as you are, and I don't have time to indulge in research and studying of your sources. I wasn't expecting to back you up in a corner you see, I just wanted to see how you would defend your arguments, simple as that. I can't prove anything with non-existant knowledge, right? I've done religious studies, but not with the same correlations that you have have. My studies are more based from Biblical and doctrinal readings. It was quite inappropriate for you to accuse me of being "spoon-fed" my religion or my beliefs, because what I believe now is an accumulation of much searching in my life, through much struggle.

Basically, when I proposed a debate, I wasn't looking for a true formal debate, just something to spark a little interest, and for more information to be spread. We can all learn things from a little debate.

Hemperor, I found it interesting, though, that you made such a spectacle of picking apart my flimsy arguments, yet you somehow did not confront my story about how God intervened to save my cousin's life. When I saw that, I knew it could have only been God. I still don't know yet whether you believe in a deity or not. But I would at least like you to reply to my story, because although it is not scientific in nature, it is a real story that happened to me, an event that visually confirmed my faith. It's easy to turn a story like that into something scientific by saying "Well, it's possible that the impact of the rock against the ledge could have weakened the core of the rock and while it was spinning in the air, the force split it apart and went on either side of your cousin." That's a scientific way of looking at it, but when I saw that rock, it burst open with a loud crack, as if split apart by hand. I guess it's one of those "I guess you'd have to have been there," things, but perhaps you can understand after witnessing it myself, how I would see it.


--------------------

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Offlinematchbook
Photographer

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: matchbook]
    #3387129 - 11/20/04 12:11 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Are you still around Hemperor? I suppose you are probably quite busy with all of your research you do. But please do respond to my points at some point.


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Offlinesublime40oz
Traveler
Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 1,755
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: matchbook]
    #3387331 - 11/20/04 01:06 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Matchbook it is really easy to look at certain events in your life, distort them or exagerate them, and look up to the skys. Without any proof of the incident how do you expect the man to debate. I could tell you I flew this one time, hell it musta been god, prove that it wasn't. You get the point? Too many people are brain washed with what church has been stuffing down their throats for so many years, when something happens you can't quite explain automatically it must have been god coming down to save you. That boulder could have struck the side of the hill while falling sending a shock wave through it's core and splitting at a weak point. The loud crack was the whack against the side of the hill that you would never have noticed in a state of panic, and the tremor sent through its core simply split it. There's a much more logical explanation than god having your back. Everyone has a story or two that they can't explain, pretty convienvent to just jump to the conclusion that god was behind it. I haven't even watched this video yet but I plan to, the heated thread has gotten my attention, so it might just be worth the time to sit and watch it.


--------------------
Beyond the gray sky

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Offlinematchbook
Photographer

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: sublime40oz]
    #3389375 - 11/20/04 01:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Sublime, heck, I understand where you are coming from. Most of the miracle stories out there I don't just automatically believe. I wouldn't have brought mine up if I weren't 100% sure of it myself. You are right that the rock could have been weakened, but the other points were much more clear to me. The ledge that it came off of was a softer ledge with some dried grass on it, and it didn't bounce violently off it, but rolled and flew off at us, about 20 feet away and above. I saw it continue to fly through the air until just a few feet away from my cousin, and heard the loud crack and the rock split and separate on either side, as I said. Even if the rock did separate on it's own, it would make little sense that in middair it would PULL apart a good 3 or 4 feet (or however much it would have to avoid contact) just prior to reaching my cousin. I'm sure it all sounds like a glorified story, but even immediately after, I realized what happened, and was substantially shocked and grateful. I don't wish to DEBATE about it, but perhaps some acknowledgement of how miracles would explain a deity.


--------------------

Edited by matchbook (11/20/04 01:54 PM)

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OfflineGnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: matchbook]
    #3401708 - 11/24/04 12:56 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

matchbook said:
Hemperor,
Hey that's fine.  I don't appreciate being insulted as being a horrible debater, because I am not.  But I am willing to admit that I am not even 1/10 as educated in these matters as you are, and I don't have time to indulge in research and studying of your sources.  I wasn't expecting to back you up in a corner you see, I just wanted to see how you would defend your arguments, simple as that.





I come from the school of ruthless intellectual debate. I butt heads against Cambridge Sumerian experts. Sometimes I get beat, sometimes I win. One thing you must always learn in debate, is that it's purely intellectual, and not personal. When you get hit from international scholars, you quickly learn it's all about learning. My attacks on you are only intellectual play. Don't take them seriously. As I stated, I like to be sarcastic. You assume that because I presented the information I thought you were requesting.. Wasn't it you who said something to the effect of "Josephus says Jesus is real so he must be"? (I'm not going to look back and quote exactly. It's late.) I thought it was this to which you were requesting info. Anyway, this isn't being backed into a corner. It's presenting the information requested, and putting false logic in its place. That's why I told you that if you have info to back up your claims, please do so.


Quote:


I can't prove anything with non-existant knowledge, right?  I've done religious studies, but not with the same correlations that you have have.  My studies are more based from Biblical and doctrinal readings.




Our research is based heavily in Biblical and doctrinal readings. See our bibliography: http://www.pharmacratic-inquisition.com/nontesters/pharmacratic/books.html

Since you base your religious studies on the Bible, how do you explain the HUNDREDS of references to Manna, spiritual food, drink, etc... Jesus telling you to eat his flesh and drink his blood...A good book on a "substitute manna" in the bible 'ergot' is Dan Merkur's book "The Mystery of Manny". Syracuse University Theological Seminary.

Magic Mushrooms by Clark Heinrick deals heavily with this reality in Biblical studies.

John Allegro in The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross was an Ordained Minister, world's leading Oxford Philologist, and avid mushroom promoter for the foundation of Christianity. Just because you read orthodox interpretations, doesn't mean you can deny what is in front of your face page after page in the bible. If you have time to undertake "Biblical Studies", I'd hope you'd at least find the need to search for these answers, and figure out why the Bible is always telling you to eat something to find god.



Quote:


  It was quite inappropriate for you to accuse me of being "spoon-fed" my religion or my beliefs, because what I believe now is an accumulation of much searching in my life, through much struggle.





The mushrooms should tell you not to take things like this in ego. To me, when you think inside the box, you are being spoon fed... like believing the crap on TV without looking into it. During the war in Yugoslavia, I went there for 16 months to discover the truth.. .it certainly wasn't' what the American population was spoon fed.
http://www.thehemperor.net/nontesters/thehemperor/balkans.html

If you had taken a study in mainstream media claims about Yugoslavia, chances are, you'd only find mainstream (and 90% false) information.
If on the other hand, you decide to discover for yourself, and go to where the action is, you will see first hand.

Quote:


Basically, when I proposed a debate, I wasn't looking for a true formal debate, just something to spark a little interest, and for more information to be spread.  We can all learn things from a little debate.





When you ask someone who is involved in serious research for debate, this means debate. When our credibility of research is on the line,  I'm going to debate with real information. Not beliefs held in the early 1800's to be true.

Quote:


Hemperor, I found it interesting, though, that you made such a spectacle of picking apart my flimsy arguments, yet you somehow did not confront my story about how God intervened to save my cousin's life.  When I saw that, I knew it could have only been God. 





God shmod. What you have is an indoctrinated belief system telling you that it was a man sitting on a throne in heaven saving your cousin's life. If you had been raised Muslim, it would be Allah.


Quote:


I still don't know yet whether you believe in a deity or not.  But I would at least like you to reply to my story, because although it is not scientific in nature, it is a real story that happened to me, an event that visually confirmed my faith.





There is that word, faith...(see previous paragraph... i.e. Allah) You're on a Shamanism board.. You don't need faith, you can have the experience... the mushrooms themselves will teach you, that is if you allow them.

The very reason you have come hear, to this forum, to learn about mushrooms, is to discover that YOU are god. God is omnipresent. If god is omnipresent, how can god NOT be the only thing that exists? Just because I know as fact that the Christian idea of god is a bit twisted to say the least, doesn't mean that I do not believe in a Great Spirit, or Gian consciousness... If there is nothing outside my body, then as a Shaman, where would I possibly go out of body to on my Mushroom adventures? Eat the 7 grams in silent darkness and discover for yourself my friend, all of your own answers to these questions which brought you here are inside YOU. The teacher plants help us to discover this.


Quote:


It's easy to turn a story like that into something scientific by saying "Well, it's possible that the impact of the rock against the ledge could have weakened the core of the rock and while it was spinning in the air, the force split it apart and went on either side of your cousin."  That's a scientific way of looking at it, but when I saw that rock, it burst open with a loud crack, as if split apart by hand.  I guess it's one of those "I guess you'd have to have been there," things, but perhaps you can understand after witnessing it myself, how I would see it.






I'll tell you a little story.

Last week I was at a clients. I'm a network admin. My client lives near Wrightwood, California off a private dirt road in the middle of the woods.

I finished my job, jumped in my jeep, and if you've ever been in a jeep, you know how fun they are on dirt roads... So I punch it... spinning this way and that, laughing and giggling to myself as the Jeep does donuts around corners (4 wheel drive was disengaged.)

I come flying around this corner, and the jeep starts spinning out of control... I'm just ridding with it... As the jeep comes to a halt, I see something move out of the corner of my eye. I look up and see a dog. I look again and see another. I look again and see a third dog and two elderly people. My jeep had spun out of control, just seconds before I would have killed every single one of them. As I brought the jeep around, the people THANKED me! I was stunned. As I drove around the corner, I realized WHY they thanked me. They thought I had seen them and went out of my way to stop! This could not have been further from reality. It was at that moment I saw the entire event take place again from my third eye (pineal gland). I could see how the Great Spirit had caused the loss of control of the Jeep. I could see the energy that it pushed to move me... I could see this, because I, you, we are all an integral part of this energy. See quantum physics etc. or Hologram theory by Michael Talbot, Bohm et al. The Great Spirit and I had a terrific laugh at the entire event as I sped down the dirt road for one more slide to the road way, where an ambulance passed by that could have been for them.

Did I come to the conclusion that your Christian, jealous god, man on a throne, downtrodden against the female species had anything to do with it...? Of course not.

The plant entheogens are apart of the holy trinity... I'm not going to lay 400 footnote references here, then I wouldn't have a book. But I'm sure many people here will agree with what I've said... and many may not.

Enjoy your discovery of your Self. When you find you, you'll have the most hysterical laugh of your lifetime.



Cheers!  :mushroom2:


--------------------
www.gnosticmedia.com

Edited by TheHemperor (11/24/04 01:03 AM)

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OfflineGnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: matchbook]
    #3401780 - 11/24/04 01:17 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

matchbook said:
Are you still around Hemperor? I suppose you are probably quite busy with all of your research you do. But please do respond to my points at some point.





Better late than never!

And yes, I was doing research... I shouldn't be here now.

well, it's 12:20 am PST, which means it's 420 someplace. Until next time!


--------------------
www.gnosticmedia.com

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OfflineGnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: GnosticMedia]
    #3401853 - 11/24/04 01:51 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Silly me...

I'm so tired from reading all day I forgot about this little tidbit.

From about the 1200 century on, the Christian church KILLED all witches and pagans for even possessing the knowledge of Shamanism a.k.a. Wicca (Wise one) a.k.a. Witchcraft.

Under the Holy Christian faith, you are a Heretic, and if you are Catholic, I could report you to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as ?The Holy Inquisition? office of the Vatican!

On June 19, 1620, the Inquisition of Mexico City formerly decreed the use of entheogens as heretical:

?The use of the Herb or Root called Peyote?is a superstitious action and reproved as opposed to the purity and sincerity of our Holy Catholic Faith? We decree that henceforth no person?may use or use of this said herb, this Peyote, or of others for said effects, nor others similar?being warned that doing the contrary, besides incurring said censures and penalties, we will proceed against whoever is rebellious and disobedient, as against persons suspect in the holy Catholic faith.?

If you undertake a study of Christianity, you'll see that all other "modern" Christian Churches derived from The Catholic "Universal"--faith.

Christianity does not allow any room for you to be investigating other faiths, and especially witchcraft.

Think about that one.

Also consider that 50% of ALL women were put to death by Christians from around 900 to about 1823... for shamanism... Witchcraft...Entheogens... The Pharmacratic Inquisition


Feel like drinking hot lead? Heretic...


Just kidding, but seriously, think about that... The means and numbers that Christians have murdered in the last 1000 years makes Hitler seem only more organized, and for body count, he quite pales in comparison.


--------------------
www.gnosticmedia.com

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Offlinematchbook
Photographer

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: GnosticMedia]
    #3401978 - 11/24/04 03:06 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Hemperor,

I don't take anything personally that you say. But I just thought a couple comments were uninformed statements. Anyway, I apologize for misunderstanding your debate credentials, of which I was not aware when I proposed it. I do like to debate, but I usually take it much more seriously when I'm in person. It just seems difficult over the internet with the huge delays and all. But that doesn't obstruct the potential to learn new things.

When you commented about Manna, Spiritual Food, etc, that is something that can be interpreted in many different ways. The Bible obviously uses plenty of symbolism. And the problem with symbolism is that everyone has a different interpretation of what things symbolize. Take the book of Revelation for example. Look at all the different books and articles that explain the symbolism. Many of them make a lot of sense, but they can't all be right. One thing about symbolism, and Biblical symbolism especially, is that simplicity is usually key. As far as "Manna" goes, why could it not have been simply been what the Bible says it is? A bread sent from heaven for the starving Israelites. Manna of course means, "What is it?". Exodus 16:31 says "31 The people of Israel called the bread manna. [1] It was white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey." Why do you think it should have any deeper meaning than that?

Now about Jesus saying to eat his "body" and drink his "blood". Again, very simple symbolism. Here's the verses: 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[2] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

What does that have to do with mushrooms? I am not remembering at the moment what you said about it in the video. But the whole thing seems very simple and self-explanatory. You asked me something like "Why does the Bible always say you should eat something to find God?" Well then, let me ask you... what about all the hundreds of other places in the Bible that tell you how you can find God without eating anything? The majority of verses in the Bible that tell you how to find God have absolutely nothing to do with eating anything. So I don't see how you can possibly form a theory out of that, especially when the food verses that are mentioned are so self-explanatory.

You mentioned about how the Christian church killed so many people in the dark ages because of their witchcraft/shamanism. Well, I don't support that. My being a Christian has nothing to do with that. Besides, I think it was mainly the Catholic church that was in charge of that, and I have no affiliation with Catholicism. Nothing is perfect, and the church is not. Bad is always mixed with good. The object is to search for what is good. For one thing, the Catholic Church is responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of Christians in the dark ages, if they owned a Bible, or rebuked the Church, and plenty other things.

I can easily see how you could find the whole religion thing to be quite ridiculous, and I do also to some point. Many religions are manipulative, selfish, etc. You may wonder why I believe the Bible, or my particular denomination. How come I don't believe in Allah? Well for one thing, you are right about different cultures writing stories to form a whole religion. Many religions are like that. So, is the Bible a documentation of history, or is it simply a ficticious book? Well, of course it takes an open mind and intense searching to know for sure. But after looking at it from every possible angle, I've come to my own conclusion. I know God exists, and I believe what the Bible says. The Bible is full of clues, but you have to dig deep. Especially with many prophecies, the Bible's truth becomes more evident. Such as, for example, the 1260 day prophecy in both Daniel and Revelation I believe. Well, in the old testament, there is a clue in which God says to a prophet that a day in prophecy represents a year. So I will explain this in short... God said there will be 1260 days in which God's church will be persecuted, people will have to flee to the deserts, etc. So that is 1260 years. Has that happened? Yes. (This site will explain in detail http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/1260.html) In the year 538 the persecution began by the Roman Catholic Church. There was an establishment of Roman Law and it's authority with the church. 538 is when many Christians fled for the wilderness to escape persecution. Then in 1798, the Pope was taken captive, and a whole new set of laws were enforced that finally ended the persecution of Christians... exactly 1260 years later. So, how could that possibly be coincidence? The Bible predicts God's Church will be persecuted for 1260 years, and voila, it happens. Does that not make as much sense as what you have taught? Now of course, the heavy use of symbolism in Daniel and Revelation (if you read through that site i gave) you may wonder with the use of "the woman" "the beast", etc, how I am getting these interpretations of the symbols. It takes a lot of explaining, but the woman represents God's Church, and the Little Horn and in the other Revelation the 2nd beast represents the Roman Catholic Church, which can be explained by things such as "speaking blasphemy against the Most High" (blasphemy such as Pope proclaiming he is God on earth, etc)

It takes a good deal of research to understand even this single prophecy, but once you do the research, it becomes crystal clear. Again, if the Bible says there will be a 1260 year period in which God's Church will be persecuted, and there is an obvious record of that, 538 to 1798, when it started and ended, how can you dispute that. The only way to dispute it is by your interpretation of the symbolism. And that's how the mad circle spins. Anything can make sense if you try to make it make sense. But that explains the justification of my faith. I gave only one example of how the Bible is true, and why I believe in God/Jesus. I could list others, probably even more obvious. But not everyone sees things the same way.

Anyway, this was much longer than i was anticipating on writing. Do respond when you get the chance. I don't expect you to read through that site, although it can give you an idea of everything. If you really wanted to delve into the subject, there are much much better sources.


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OfflineGnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: ready to open your mind? [Re: matchbook]
    #3470993 - 12/09/04 02:15 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

matchbook said:
Hemperor,

I don't take anything personally that you say. But I just thought a couple comments were uninformed statements. Anyway, I apologize for misunderstanding your debate credentials, of which I was not aware when I proposed it. I do like to debate, but I usually take it much more seriously when I'm in person. It just seems difficult over the internet with the huge delays and all. But that doesn't obstruct the potential to learn new things.

When you commented about Manna, Spiritual Food, etc, that is something that can be interpreted in many different ways. The Bible obviously uses plenty of symbolism. And the problem with symbolism is that everyone has a different interpretation of what things symbolize. Take the book of Revelation for example. Look at all the different books and articles that explain the symbolism. Many of them make a lot of sense, but they can't all be right. One thing about symbolism, and Biblical symbolism especially, is that simplicity is usually key. As far as "Manna" goes, why could it not have been simply been what the Bible says it is? A bread sent from heaven for the starving Israelites. Manna of course means, "What is it?". Exodus 16:31 says "31 The people of Israel called the bread manna. [1] It was white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey." Why do you think it should have any deeper meaning than that?

Now about Jesus saying to eat his "body" and drink his "blood". Again, very simple symbolism. Here's the verses: 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[2] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

What does that have to do with mushrooms? I am not remembering at the moment what you said about it in the video. But the whole thing seems very simple and self-explanatory. You asked me something like "Why does the Bible always say you should eat something to find God?" Well then, let me ask you... what about all the hundreds of other places in the Bible that tell you how you can find God without eating anything? The majority of verses in the Bible that tell you how to find God have absolutely nothing to do with eating anything. So I don't see how you can possibly form a theory out of that, especially when the food verses that are mentioned are so self-explanatory.

You mentioned about how the Christian church killed so many people in the dark ages because of their witchcraft/shamanism. Well, I don't support that. My being a Christian has nothing to do with that. Besides, I think it was mainly the Catholic church that was in charge of that, and I have no affiliation with Catholicism. Nothing is perfect, and the church is not. Bad is always mixed with good. The object is to search for what is good. For one thing, the Catholic Church is responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of Christians in the dark ages, if they owned a Bible, or rebuked the Church, and plenty other things.

I can easily see how you could find the whole religion thing to be quite ridiculous, and I do also to some point. Many religions are manipulative, selfish, etc. You may wonder why I believe the Bible, or my particular denomination. How come I don't believe in Allah? Well for one thing, you are right about different cultures writing stories to form a whole religion. Many religions are like that. So, is the Bible a documentation of history, or is it simply a ficticious book? Well, of course it takes an open mind and intense searching to know for sure. But after looking at it from every possible angle, I've come to my own conclusion. I know God exists, and I believe what the Bible says. The Bible is full of clues, but you have to dig deep. Especially with many prophecies, the Bible's truth becomes more evident. Such as, for example, the 1260 day prophecy in both Daniel and Revelation I believe. Well, in the old testament, there is a clue in which God says to a prophet that a day in prophecy represents a year. So I will explain this in short... God said there will be 1260 days in which God's church will be persecuted, people will have to flee to the deserts, etc. So that is 1260 years. Has that happened? Yes. (This site will explain in detail http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/1260.html) In the year 538 the persecution began by the Roman Catholic Church. There was an establishment of Roman Law and it's authority with the church. 538 is when many Christians fled for the wilderness to escape persecution. Then in 1798, the Pope was taken captive, and a whole new set of laws were enforced that finally ended the persecution of Christians... exactly 1260 years later. So, how could that possibly be coincidence? The Bible predicts God's Church will be persecuted for 1260 years, and voila, it happens. Does that not make as much sense as what you have taught? Now of course, the heavy use of symbolism in Daniel and Revelation (if you read through that site i gave) you may wonder with the use of "the woman" "the beast", etc, how I am getting these interpretations of the symbols. It takes a lot of explaining, but the woman represents God's Church, and the Little Horn and in the other Revelation the 2nd beast represents the Roman Catholic Church, which can be explained by things such as "speaking blasphemy against the Most High" (blasphemy such as Pope proclaiming he is God on earth, etc)

It takes a good deal of research to understand even this single prophecy, but once you do the research, it becomes crystal clear. Again, if the Bible says there will be a 1260 year period in which God's Church will be persecuted, and there is an obvious record of that, 538 to 1798, when it started and ended, how can you dispute that. The only way to dispute it is by your interpretation of the symbolism. And that's how the mad circle spins. Anything can make sense if you try to make it make sense. But that explains the justification of my faith. I gave only one example of how the Bible is true, and why I believe in God/Jesus. I could list others, probably even more obvious. But not everyone sees things the same way.

Anyway, this was much longer than i was anticipating on writing. Do respond when you get the chance. I don't expect you to read through that site, although it can give you an idea of everything. If you really wanted to delve into the subject, there are much much better sources.





First off, I'm not going to break down every little peace of this, it's getting quite old. You don't seem to see the FACT that Christianity was CREATED by the Romans at the Council of Nicea. All other branches of Christianity derived FROM Catholisism (The universal church). There is NO seperation from you a "Christian", and that of the Catholic Church who created your very faith, and wrote the bible upon which it is based.

I have given you reference after reference to read on these manners, and you refuse to look into any of them, and regurgitate what ever it is you've been told. See Dan Merkur, the Mystery of Manna.. Syracuse University and Theological Seminary...

I also highly recommend that you get yourself a Strong's Concordance, and reference each word before you believe it's face value... the word Apacalypse for instance means "To reveal something hiden". This is why Revolation is called Revolation...
Revolations is entirely based on entheogens, for your information, but I'm not going to spill an entire book here for your enlightenment, when you wont' read it anyway. The book, called The Most High, will be out soon. (Exerpts below)

The bible doesn't predict anything. I've looked into your theories, and they are baseless. Many people throughout history have taken the bible as fact and made historical events happen that make the bible appear accurate... people like you who want to believe... just like the dumb dumbs looking for the red cow. If they walked into a forest, they'd have found it years ago...instead, now they are creating a gene project to produce their red cow... so I guess you'll think the Bible predicted that as well.

Exerpt "The Most High":

The book of Revelations is classified as Apocalyptic literature and Christian apocalpyticism is actually a continuation of older Jewish beliefs and much older Iranian Zoroastrianism. Zoroaster (circa 500 B.C.E.) popularized belief that there is an ongoing spiritual war between light and darkness, good and evil and that there will be a war at the end of the world between these two forces culminating in, as the Islamic world calls it, A ?Jihad? or ?Holy War?. This type of belief has been at the core of wars throughout human history and will certainly be the cause of more until this mythological tale can be understood as simply that, a myth, and humanity finally comes to grips with the unifying principles that reconcile good and evil, god and the devil, light and dark to be all part of one all embracing nature of life and dedicate themselves rather than to false morality and enforcement of mans law to freedom and explorations to life?s pleasures without guilt. The mushroom itself provides this very thing; the revelations that consist of alternating perceptions between good and evil that alternate back and forth like a Yo-Yo ride (more on this later).

There is another method of scriptural interpretation that does not specifically associate itself to apocalyptic texts. The belief in Scripture and prophesy brings individuals into a mind set conducive to the ?pescher? method of scripture interpretation causing the search for correlations among the reader?s present day world, it?s governments, religions and public figures and the coded scriptures deemed prophetic. The pescher method of scripture interpretation became better understood after the discovery of the dead sea scrolls and the lives of the Essenes (who were thought to have deposited the scrolls) was examined much more thoroughly by Anthropologists. This type of scripture interpretation may very well have been developed because of the particular characteristic common to Amanita use. When you are in the Amanita consciousness you become a part of whatever is happening around you. If you are watching a movie you become the movie. The experience is just as real as it can be. You believe yourself to be living the movie you are watching. People have been taking the Amanitas for thousands and thousands of years and have been attempting to understand these aspects of the experience. So it is a logical progression for us to consider people relating scriptures that we think are inspired by the mushroom experiences to relate the stories into their own lives. Two thousand years ago it was entertainment to read scripture for the Essenes and others. This phenomenon of relating oneself into stories can be witnessed in the natural world through children observed watching a movie who associate themselves with characters. They can be heard saying things like ?I?m the kid with red hair? and ?You are the girl having the party?. But as we grow up we typically don?t continue this behavior. Still, relating with a story (told by another, read or watched on television) can still cause tears, fear, surprise etc. in young and old. Being on the mushrooms exacerbates this condition in the extreme; it is really quite the experience. Once a friend watched a boxing event on television and believed he was beaten up. This is not a good idea for future reference. Another friend watched the movie Dune and became the Quitsatz Haderac (the hero character, the Universe?s Super-Being). Understandably if you are listening to a book on tape or someone is reading to you it is the same thing. So it is a logical progression for people to relate modern methods of storytelling scriptures into their own lives. Even before the Christian world existed the Jewish apocalyptic texts such as the book of Daniel, the Book of Sibylline Oracles, Ezra, Apocalypse of Baruch and others had many a Rabbi claiming the end was near.

Apocalyptic writings contain the good versus evil mythology reminiscent of the Egyptian and Babylonian hero and villain stories but rather than viewing these writings as myth they are instead viewed as prophetic. Prophecy is often explained as valid by religious authorities but most religious apologists claim that there is no more valid Prophesy in the modern world. Muslims emphatically believe there could be no prophet after Muhammad.

Throughout the course of history fanatical believers have even attempted to bring about the events within these types of stories by manipulating governments and leaders. This believer-oriented conscious manipulating of the physical universe, governments, political unions, contracts, wars, conflicts and media continually feeds the imaginations of people unaware of this type of puppeteering. Unnumbered televangelists bilk the public out of millions because they appear to be tapped into the secrets of these books. However, rather than divine prophecy coming true, because it is divine prophecy, the seemingly prophetic events align because people, real human beings believing they are fulfilling prophecy, consciously follow these books as blueprints. It can be argued in a convoluted manner that these people are doing what they do because they are fulfilling prophecy and they must act out their role, that there could be no other reality because, as emphatically insisted by religionists, ?it has thus been written?. But it is exactly this type of circumambulatory reasoning that has kept the churches in business and logic at bay, if not illegal, and perpetuates the bloodshed, intolerance and faith-based insanity.


The following is the proper way to break down biblical passages, instead of believing their english translated words:



7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Tree of life is the same as the tree of knowledge which the mushroom,

Tree of life reference: GENESIS 2:9 And out of the ground made the lord god to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil,

GENESIS 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live for ever:

REVELATION 22: 2&14 2: In the midst of the street of it and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits and yield her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 14:Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

?Overcometh-3528- niako3529-nike to prevail, conquer, the mean of success) the only way to prevail is to have the mushroom, without the mushroom you don?t have the means to prevail over the dogma, the midst of paradise is the mushroom, if you can over come the dogma enough to find the mushroom, this is the way to return to the paradise of god.

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
?Smyrna-ephdra-smeared, 4667&4666-myrh-3464smearing the oil, ointment and semen christos,
Dead and alive experience also the death and rebirth of the mushroom, the shroom dies but is always alive,
?DEAD-3498-nekros-from nekus- a corpse,
?ALIVE-2198-zao to live, literally or fig. Life time, alive lively and quick? the trick of the mushroom is to make you quick, the quickening of the mind, to be alive and quick,

REV 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

ISAIAH 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
?BLASPHEMY-988, baosphemia- vilification especially against god, or evil speaking, railing 989-blasphemos-984-blapto- to hinder, injure or hurt 5345-pheme-a sane or rumor or fame 5346-phemito show or make known of ones thoughts, in essence to speak or say,
?SATAN-4567-satanas-the accuser, or oppena (Hebrew 7854-arch-enemy of good, withstand from 7853- to attack, fig. Accuse, or be adversary)
They say their Jew but their not-metaphorically if you are a Jew you have the shroom, and lit. if you?re a Jew you have your penis circumcised into a mushroom,
?SYNAGOGUE-4864-sunagoge-an assemblage of persons, specifically Jewish, by analogy a Christian church,

Thou art rich reference: LUKE 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

MATTHEW 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where your treasure in heaven, where neither moth no rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.

1 TIMOTHY 6:18 & 19 18: That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate.
19: Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

JAMES 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
The reference is meaning is the riches of spirit, not necessarily money riches, the treasure they are talking about is the mushrooms, willing to give the mushroom knowledge, you don?t have to be rich in the king dome
Trying to relate kiss his ass, judging other people,

Say they are Jews reference: ROMANS 2:17-29 17: Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God.
18: And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19: And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20: An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21: Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22: Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23: Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24: For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25: For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26: Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27: And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
What matters to being a Jew is what you have inside of you, which is the mushroom,



Anyway, this is only 2 pages of a 1000 page manuscript, but you have to learn how to reference each and every word, and cross reference these to the other passages in the bible...

Will you ever do this? No... You want so badly to believe that your Apocalypse is the end of the world... when it only means to reveal that which has been hidden from you.

Oxford: Apocalypse - 2. By extension: Any revelation or disclosure.

Anyway, I'm done with the circlular arguements. If you care to refernce real history, instead of make believe, we'll continue.


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