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InvisibleSwami
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To those who believe in Mystical Healings
    #3465596 - 12/08/04 06:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So let me get this straight: one can heal cancer and other ailments through prayer or Reiki or visualization or the laying on of hands; yet people must still die. This does not compute. If one can "channel energy" to thwart the Grim Reaper once or twice, why not indefinitely? Why is unlimited and divine healing so very, very limited?

Hint, the answer is obvious.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3465613 - 12/08/04 06:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

""Mystical Healings ""

take a pill, to make you become, not ill?
take a pill, to make your finger move?
:wink:


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3465680 - 12/08/04 06:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure what is meant by "mystical healings," but I do believe the human mind is a very powerful thing, and the power of suggestion can work wonders. It's not full-proof, but people have managed some incredible feats under extreme circumstances.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3465691 - 12/08/04 06:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

placebo?


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: spudamore]
    #3465734 - 12/08/04 06:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

A placebo is a great place to relax in the summertime.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3465841 - 12/08/04 06:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

isnt that a gazebo


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3465842 - 12/08/04 06:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Take two placebos, then you can call me lame!
-NOFX :P


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3466198 - 12/08/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It's the same reason medication and medical treatments can't keep someone alive indefinitely. We are not meant to live forever, and the body will degrade over time despite all measures to reverse it.

We can temporarily bounce back, but we will always digress and die. You could say the same for any treatment, not just Mystical Healing


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Ravus]
    #3466328 - 12/08/04 07:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The man has a point there.

And a very disturbing sig, I might add!  :grin:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Ravus]
    #3466344 - 12/08/04 07:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It's the same reason medication and medical treatments can't keep someone alive indefinitely. We are not meant to live forever, and the body will degrade over time despite all measures to reverse it.

We can temporarily bounce back, but we will always digress and die. You could say the same for any treatment, not just Mystical Healing


But, but, but all the books on spiritual healing tell of Gods' INFINITE power and as our biological theoretical limit is around 150-160 years and no one even approaches that, well you can see where I am going...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3466465 - 12/08/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm with ravus on this one :smile:

Although I really do not know how powerful 'mystical healing' is, having never witnessed it :smile:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3467119 - 12/08/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Why is unlimited and divine healing so very, very limited?

You've obviously never witnessed a Psychic Surgery.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3470649 - 12/09/04 03:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'll add to Ravus' explanation by adding this: no cure will treat anything but the symptoms. For the disease to go away, the patient has to change their lifestyle (diet, exercise, stress factors, etc). No doctor - allopathic or homeopathic alike - is a magician, you can't heal if you don't want to change.

Whether or not you believe in a soul/aura/astral body/chi, you cannot ignore the subtle interactions (bi-lateral!) between body and mind.

As to the answer being obvious: it's so very limited because you jumped the gun when you calculated the Grim Reaper into the equation. Healing a person has nothing to do with avoiding death, it has to do with prolonging life, which is not entirely the same thing. Age is an untreatable disease - for now.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (12/09/04 03:24 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3470695 - 12/09/04 03:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'll add to Ravus' explanation by adding this: no cure will treat anything but the symptoms.

If it's a cure, doesn't it actually eliminate whatever the cause is? If you're only treating the symptoms, I don't see how it's a cure.

For the disease to go away, the patient has to change their lifestyle (diet, exercise, stress factors, etc). No doctor - allopathic or homeopathic alike - is a magician, you can't heal if you don't want to change.

What if it's one of the many diseases not caused by lack of excercise and diet? Increased excercise and good diet can certainly help to do things like boost the immune system, but that's not a panacea either.

Believe it or not, some things can be cured even if the patient wants to die.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3470705 - 12/09/04 03:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Healing a person has nothing to do with avoiding death, it has to do with prolonging life, which is not entirely the same thing.
This view can easily to ad hoc reasoning: If someone dies, then it was "their" time.

Age is an untreatable disease...
Isn't this just a negative belief?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Phluck]
    #3470710 - 12/09/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

True. But all I'm saying is that there are more factors to treating and preventing disease than mere chemical treatments. Medicine is focused on treatment more than it is on prevention. If the symptoms go, the treatment ends.

EDIT: Please don't ignore context either. After exercise, diet and stress factors I added "etc" which was meant to imply that there are more reasons than those I stated. I don't know all of them, because I'm not a trained physician, but my best friend - who's more than half way his medical studies - often mentions other factors. I can't help the fact I'm not a person gifted with the most exact of memories.

On the issue of people not wanting to live... if they don't change their mind, they'll still die before their maximum age.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (12/09/04 03:36 PM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Swami]
    #3470727 - 12/09/04 03:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Please don't twist my words, Swami. If you view my words within their context, there is no way it can lead to the indicated reasoning.

Quote:

If someone dies, then it was "their" time.



If you read on (which I'm sure you did, because you quoted the next sentence), you will have noticed I implied that the ultimate cause for death is age.

Quote:

Isn't this just a negative belief?



I added "- for now". And in that context, it's a realistic belief, not negative.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3470733 - 12/09/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think I've heard of a single doctor who doesn't recommend healthy eating and plenty of excercise.

Plus, there are lots of diseases that get treated before visible symptoms appear, and after they go away. Cancer and AIDS, for starters.

Either way, even having a perfect diet, avoiding all kinds of risk factors, and getting lots of excercise only reduces your odds of getting certain diseases. Sometimes the healthiest, happiest people in the world die of cancer at young ages. Prevention isn't perfect either.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3470796 - 12/09/04 03:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

On the issue of people not wanting to live... if they don't change their mind, they'll still die before their maximum age.

You reference absolutely no reasoning to base your statement on. A flat declaration carries no weight.

You take issue with my statement about ad hoc reasoning and here it rears it's ugly head AGAIN. As our current theoretical maximum age is about 150-160 years (this according to then number of times that healthy cells can divide), then WE ALL die before our maximum age.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To those who believe in Mystical Healings [Re: Phluck]
    #3471049 - 12/09/04 04:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

More could be done, though. Like medical insurance benefits (cuts in the price, perhaps) if you go have a check-up regularly, and like a holistic approach to disease (mind, body and soul, proverbially). And who knows, perhaps placebo or psychosomatic effects can have an effect on disease prevention? The body's an amazing device, that much I know.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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