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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Tough question [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449452 - 12/05/04 10:00 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FreakQlibrium said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
""go to Heaven""

teach me Hebraic?






Like you Gomperoo, I'm still struggling with English :wink:




hehe, what make you think I'm struggling with English? :P
:heart: :confused: :thumbup:


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Tough question [Re: Gomp]
    #3449461 - 12/05/04 10:02 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Whoops my bad, that was a typo. I MEANT unlike you i am still struggling with english  :thumbup:


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineGomp
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Re: Tough question [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449494 - 12/05/04 10:12 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"struggling wast vain"
-unknown :P


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Tough question [Re: Gomp]
    #3449500 - 12/05/04 10:13 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
"struggling wast vain"
-unknown :P




:crazy: :confused:



:laugh:


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tough question [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449589 - 12/05/04 10:43 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"If a person were totally Christ like naturally without the fear of eternal hell* to restrain their actions but didn't believe in God, would they still go to Heaven when they die?"

The entire human race fell in the first transgression, Adam being the representative head. All fell in Adam, the transgression is imputed. The entire race condemned is legally, and also by having a fallen nature. So it is impossible that any man could ever be "good enough" to get into heaven. How good is good enough? Perfection is the standard, nothing less. This is why no one can ever be justified by good works. The notion that God sees a person's "faith" and based on that foreseen faith grants him/her justification is false. Faith is the unilateral gift of God to His people, it doesn't obtain anything, it only observes what already has been given, free grace justification apart from human works.

"I don't recall saying that i believed Jesus was the ONLY good person as there's been and are many. I myself have chosen of my own free will to choose Him in whom to put my faith however "

Fallen man is completely void of goodness before God (without exception). Fallen man has no "free will", his will is bound to darkness and lawlessness.

Romans 3:10-18 (see also psalm 14, psalm 51:5)
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Tough question [Re: fivepointer]
    #3449697 - 12/05/04 11:14 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

You really know the Bible man :smile: Yes i seem to remember reading something about salvation equals faith plus nothing somewhere, it is not by man's works per se, although i think it is highley possible that man's works are what Christ was refering to when he said(this is a paraphrase)"By the fruits of your labor you shall be known" or sumptin' like that lol


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tough question [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449787 - 12/05/04 11:36 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

The good works are a result of the salvation that was freely given.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The salvation itself is based soley upon God's good pleasure alone, not on forseen actions of men.

Ephesians 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,...

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Once a person has been converted, and the new heart and a new nature given, he/she will naturally show forth this change in outward actions. For a person who claims that they are a Christian, yet has no fruits (sound doctrine and works), this shows that the person was never made a new creation and is still lost.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Tough question [Re: fivepointer]
    #3449979 - 12/05/04 12:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

If a good man is barred from heaven by disbelief while the wicked are allowed in through their faith and repentance, it sounds like a place I do not want to be.
Even if only one or the other are true, it's the sort of place that I would choose to avoid.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Tough question [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449990 - 12/05/04 12:24 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

From a Christian perspective you would be Hell bound...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Tough question [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3450031 - 12/05/04 12:35 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

If a good man is barred from heaven by disbelief while the wicked are allowed in through their faith and repentance,

Yes but they would no longer be wicked if they had faith and repented, that is one of the most beautiful things about accepting God into one's life by accepting the salvation offered through the blood of Christ, it doesn'tmatter how bad you may have been in the past as long as you turn to God with a sincere heart felt repentance and a fervent desire to let God into your life and to make the changes He needs(and therefore You need) to make  :smile:


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Tough question [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3450037 - 12/05/04 12:38 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
From a Christian perspective you would be Hell bound...





WtF?  :confused:

Last I heard only God was allowed to judge and condemn, Jesus can't even do that so what gives you the right? Please, i don't say that with any hostility, i am merely curious as to where and why that comment you made originated  :crazy:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tough question [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3450091 - 12/05/04 12:57 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"If a good man is barred from heaven by disbelief while the wicked are allowed in through their faith and repentance, it sounds like a place I do not want to be."
"Even if only one or the other are true, it's the sort of place that I would choose to avoid."

No man is good, all are fallen and wicked when measured by God's standard, and fall short of the righteousness required of the law.
The act of believing and repenting does not obtain mercy. Believing and repenting are the evidences of the mercy already given. If personal actions (like believing and repenting) could be the basis of becoming justified, then justification would be by the law, but no flesh is justified by keeping the law. The law is not new and milder, with lesser conditions. Salvation is conditioned soley upon Jesus Christ alone to keep every jot and tittle of the law, and propitiate the wrath of God for His chosen people.

Salvation is not conditioned on the sinner, but soley on Christ alone. If this truth is not understood, then the gospel has not been revealed. Many "gospels" abound today, but only one gospel is true.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Tough question [Re: fivepointer]
    #3450129 - 12/05/04 01:11 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Believing and repenting are the evidences of the mercy already given


Thanks for taking the time to elucidate man :smile:


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