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Amber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
#3452659 - 12/05/04 11:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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People living in a fantasy world cannot concentrate on properly making the real world better.
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Frog
Warrior


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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Amber_Glow]
#3452687 - 12/05/04 11:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amber_Glow said: Religion is an impediment to progress in the world.
There is nothing wrong with religion. In fact, it is man, or woman, who actually tarnishes religion and religious beliefs. There's nothing wrong with religion, per se.
"re?li?gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n.
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."
There's nothing wrong with having beliefs, values and pracrices. There's nothing wrong with belonging to a religious order. It's when "people" with different agendas get involved, like the Christian Crusades, that things get mucked up.
I think even many of the atheists here agree that even if Jesus wasn't God, he was at least a great spiritual teacher.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
Warrior


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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Amber_Glow]
#3452694 - 12/05/04 11:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Amber_Glow said: People living in a fantasy world cannot concentrate on properly making the real world better.
Yes, I do believe you're right. Take for instance Albert Einstein. Or Martin Luther King. They were delusional and were ineffectual at making the world better. I could name hundreds of others, but I imagine it would be a waste of time.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Amber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Frog]
#3452724 - 12/05/04 11:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jesus's teachings were great. Preaching kindness and love and compassion and all that. Spirituality is fine if its connected to reality, and not taking things to a level that distort people's view of the world and of their lives.
For example a religion or spirituality that sees homosexuality as wrong is not good.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Frog]
#3452739 - 12/05/04 11:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: I'd like to see someone say they are tired of "bhuddist shit" or "karmic shit" or whatever else we frequently discuss here and get away with it.
I get tired of Budhist shit and karmic shit. Let me tell ya, cosmic shit catches more shit then religious shit here. I want to see more cosmic shit around here.
I think people here just like giving each other shit over shit.
I think the only choices are to put up with the shit or give shit or to not give a shit.
hey, how'd that get in here?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Amber_Glow]
#3452780 - 12/05/04 11:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: I'd like to see someone say they are tired of "bhuddist shit" or "karmic shit" or whatever else we frequently discuss here and get away with it.
We aren't typically discussing "Buddhist shit" or "Karmic shit" around here either... generally, the discussions in this forum are rather formless and don't adhere to strict religious codes, although a lot of ideas might relate or originate from various religions. When we see these topics do come up, directly relating to, say, the Buddhist religion, they are discussions of the ideas of that religion itself, and these ideas never have implications that the person presenting them feels they are absolutely right, or that they feel a need to control the flow of discussion, not only in that individual thread, but the entire forum itself, and they usually appear to have these thoughts because they actually thought them on their own.
Referring to these threads as an oversaturation does not in any way imply that I am not happy with it, or even that there is "too much". It implies that, as compared to previous time periods, considering general topics and flow of discussion, there is now an abundance of similar themed threads, far over the amount of similar threads in previous frames of time. Noting this as it occurs does not signify inherent hostility in myself, just an observation of reality as it occurs. 
As for the actual content of my post, phrases and words such as "faulty logic", "sorely apparent", "false", "delusions", etc. etc. etc. do not necessarily imply hostility either. Does a psychiatrist who diagnoses a patient as "schizophrenic" or "delusional" do so out of hostility?
Demeaning Christians? I don't see how this is occuring here. I see myself observing impropery structured logic, delusion stemming from a split and superextended ego identification, and tons of misunderstanding, not only of what others say, but of the ideas that these people suspossedly follow.
Perhaps your perception of hostility lies in the fact that you yourself feel threatened or attacked. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Frog
Warrior


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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3452797 - 12/05/04 11:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, of course I'm feeling threatened or attacked! I'm delusional! I'm a Christian!
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Frog]
#3452822 - 12/05/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: There is nothing wrong with religion. In fact, it is man, or woman, who actually tarnishes religion and religious beliefs. There's nothing wrong with religion, per se.
It is the idea of a religion as existing outside of men and women as an independant structure, and the religious ideas and beliefs being perfect themselves, attributing all failings of the religion to faults of the people who practice themselves that is exactly what is wrong with religion.
Quote:
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
A. is wrong in that the belief in reverence of supernatural powers as creator and ruler of the universe is based on nothing that is observable in reality, either through objective means or undelusional, personal means. Not only that, but to actually construct a system based on an unfounded, non-supported belief is actually far worse, as it seperates one from reality even more. It would be like attempting to build a skyscraper on a floating iceberg in a dream. 
Quote:
There's nothing wrong with having beliefs, values and pracrices.
Not in themselves, of course not, but there is a problem when these beliefs are based on baseless assumptions and when these beliefs do not reflect reality as it is observed. Values are not wrong to have either, but inflicting your values on others in an effort to force them to live by them as well is wrong. I practice guitar, and it is not wrong, but when someone has a practice that is unhealthy for either the mind, body, or others, then there is a problem.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3452824 - 12/05/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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For example a religion or spirituality that sees homosexuality as wrong is not good.
Or a religion that insists man was created 10,000 years ago.. Or that certain Christians will be plucked out of the sky in some Rapture.. Or that eating meat on Friday is/was a SIN..
God's rules, or Man's Egocentric rules? Hmm.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
#3452857 - 12/06/04 12:09 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SkorpivoMusterion said: God's rules, or Man's Egocentric rules? Hmm.
Both, as God is simply an exention of Man's Ego. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Frog
Warrior


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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
#3452886 - 12/06/04 12:18 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Right! See? There's nothing wrong with being spiritual. There's nothing wrong with religion.
See this principle, because I don't think anyone gets it.
Being religious is wonderful! There were many spiritual leaders, and none of us would dispute their true spirituality, such as Mahatma Ghandi (sp?), and Martin Luther King, and others.
But it's the people who took being spiritual and religious, even though they didn't believe, and used it against the people who DID believe, to accomplish their agendas.
Saying that ALL Christians are bad because they are religious, or are delusional, only because of what the bad Christians, or non-Christians, did, in the name of Christianity, is delusional, and wrong.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3452888 - 12/06/04 12:20 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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How dare you use logic and reasoning to create such a deeply cutting statement!
Hurry up and pray! Pray for forgiveness! Get down on your knees and repeat after me: Oh my father who art in heaven..

-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Frog]
#3452932 - 12/06/04 12:33 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: Right! See? There's nothing wrong with being spiritual. There's nothing wrong with religion.
Except for the fact that spirituality and religion are more opposite from each other than they are similar. There is plenty wrong with religion.
Quote:
religious is wonderful! There were many spiritual leaders, and none of us would dispute their true spirituality
There is a difference between spiritual leaders and religious leaders. Any leader you have mentioned so far has not been a religious leader. And Swami would certainly dispute the true spirituality of "spiritual leaders", as he often does.
Quote:
But it's the people who took being spiritual and religious, even though they didn't believe, and used it against the people who DID believe, to accomplish their agendas.
How do you know this?
Quote:
Saying that ALL Christians are bad because they are religious, or are delusional, only because of what the bad Christians, or non-Christians, did, in the name of Christianity, is delusional, and wrong.
No one in this thread ever said that, nor did they support any conclusion based only on "what bad or non-Christians did". I don't think you even read my post, honestly, because everything you said here shows no basis of reply to what I said.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Frog
Warrior


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Posts: 4,284
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3452993 - 12/06/04 12:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Frog said: Right! See? There's nothing wrong with being spiritual. There's nothing wrong with religion.
Except for the fact that spirituality and religion are more opposite from each other than they are similar. There is plenty wrong with religion.
Wrong!!! See? This is what you are not seeing! Spirituality and religion are really almost interchangeable! And if you look at these definitions of spirituality, you will see that it is really WORSE to be spiritual!!! 4 entries found for spirituality. spir?i?tu?al?i?ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spr-ch-l-t) n. pl. spir?i?tu?al?i?ties The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual. The clergy. Something, such as property or revenue, that belongs to the church or to a cleric. Often used in the plural. spirituality \Spir`it*u*al"i*ty\, n.; pl. Spiritualities. [L. spiritualitas: cf. F. spiritualit['e].] 1. The quality or state of being spiritual; incorporeality; heavenly-mindedness. 2. (Eccl.) That which belongs to the church, or to a person as an ecclesiastic, or to religion, as distinct from temporalities. During the vacancy of a see, the archbishop is guardian of the spiritualities thereof. --Blackstone. 3. An ecclesiastical body; the whole body of the clergy, as distinct from, or opposed to, the temporality. [Obs.] Five entire subsidies were granted to the king by the spirituality. --Fuller. spirituality n 1: property or income owned by a church [syn: spiritualty, church property] 2: concern with things of the spirit [syn: spiritualism, otherworldliness] Go back up and look at the definition of religion that I posted, and you will see the difference.
Quote:
But it's the people who took being spiritual and religious, even though they didn't believe, and used it against the people who DID believe, to accomplish their agendas.
Quote:
How do you know this?
I will find it, but someone, a long time ago, wrote about this. That religion (and spiritualism!) were used against people who believed in God to get them to do what despotic rulers wanted them to do.
Quote:
Quote:
Saying that ALL Christians are bad because they are religious, or are delusional, only because of what the bad Christians, or non-Christians, did, in the name of Christianity, is delusional, and wrong.
Quote:
No one in this thread ever said that, nor did they support any conclusion based only on "what bad or non-Christians did". I don't think you even read my post, honestly, because everything you said here shows no basis of reply to what I said.
It is implied, Fireworks, that we are delusional. No, I take that back. It has been directly said, on this thread.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Frog]
#3453108 - 12/06/04 01:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: Wrong!!! See? This is what you are not seeing! Spirituality and religion are really almost interchangeable! And if you look at these definitions of spirituality, you will see that it is really WORSE to be spiritual!!! 

There obviously is a profound difference between "The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual' and "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe", or "A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.". These definitons are the heart and soul of the words and the meanings that these definitions represent.
There is a remarkable difference between having a spiritual experience and devising a system that others worship based upon that original spiritual experience held by the original person, and there is an even more remarkable difference between having a spiritual experience and a belief in a supernatural power. You need to realize this important difference if you are to truly understand both spirituality and the phenomenon known as organized religion.
Quote:
I will find it, but someone, a long time ago, wrote about this. That religion (and spiritualism!) were used against people who believed in God to get them to do what despotic rulers wanted them to do.
Spirituality cannot be used to control people because spirituality only involves one person and their own individual experience of a state of being. Religion certainly can be used to control people for alterior motives because people put their blind faith into it, are set in a mental trap that does not allow them to think properly for themselves, and actually seperates these people from a natural state of being, invoking fear and the need to feel love within them.
Quote:
It is implied, Fireworks, that we are delusional. No, I take that back. It has been directly said, on this thread.
Then you never understood what I was saying. You accused me of saying all Christians were delusional, when it can be verified that I in fact said "...leads me to believe that perhaps the faulty logic held in common views of a Christian god is being made sorely apparent in order that we can fix these problems so that we can continue on our path of evolution. "
Not once did I ever even mention Christians in this thread. I said "common views of a Christian god", and all of my thoughs revolve around those common views, or, better put, a concept of a Christian god (Note: never did I say all views of a Christian God, merely "common views"). Not only was it not directly said, it wasn't even implied. I think you personally have applied more to my words than what should have been. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: Frog]
#3453111 - 12/06/04 01:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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See, thats why ya gotta be cosmic! It's all inclusive!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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FreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat


Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3453405 - 12/06/04 03:47 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Referring to these threads as an oversaturation does not in any way imply that I am not happy with it, or even that there is "too much". It implies that, as compared to previous time periods, considering general topics and flow of discussion, there is now an abundance of similar themed threads, far over the amount of similar threads in previous frames of time. Noting this as it occurs does not signify inherent hostility in myself, just an observation of reality as it occurs."
Thanks for clarifying man, glad your feathers aren't ruffled. I think it may be the way Christians have been persecuted historically that might have lead to my own misinterpretation of your motives/feelings in starting this, as well as the fact that i will admit to being somewhat(?) vocal about my new found faith/belief system. I will try and restrain myself more in the future
-------------------- "Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
#3453455 - 12/06/04 04:24 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FreakQlibrium said: "I will try and restrain myself more in the future
Bah, let it all loose. 
I have no problems with people who have a clear, vibrant spiritual experience that's effects are well visible, even over the internet.
The only thing that provokes my unleashing ( ) is when unnecessary assumptions, excessive dogma and structure come as a result of that experience, or sometimes without a spiritual experience altogether. Logic and reason are abandoned in these cases, false conclusions are jumped to, thought processes are codifed when they are not supported by any objective or subjective experience (one that isn't a result of misconceptions, etc.), and not only that, but these things are forced onto others.
I personally think that perhaps this "Christian God shit", as I so eloquently put it (;)) might be coming to the surface because we really need to investigate into the whole Christian thing further so that we can for once and all seperate the 99% unnecessary, destructive impurity from the 1% (but worth far more than its weight in gold ) purity of Christianity. I think this has nothing to do with church or rules or structure but a direct experience of the being of Christ, the state of mind that these lessons were intended to point to, not some literal translation without personal, here in the now experience.
Even if the oversaturation is merely due to a couple of pronounced Christians wandering in here by happenstance, could it not be the proper oppurtunity to undertake this? 
Whether or not the voice you heard was either God himself or your own mind, coming from a state of being unobstructed and pure, is not really the important thing right now - what is important is to live so that your being is centered in what we could call the Christ Consciousness, and to not adopt unnecessary beliefs and thought processes that come standard with most Christian beliefs. Realize that this very state is no different than the heightened experience of other religions, that this is universal. If you feel the need to call yourself a Christian, go ahead, but it certainly isn't necessary. Live in the moment, find ultimate appreciation in every aspect of your life, and keep your mind from obstructing the flow of the moment and of pure awareness.
I'd also suggest reading some stuff on Zen and Tao, man, I'm sure you'll dig it. 
Feel the cosmic vibrancy (sorta my term for God, ) flow through you effortlessly and continously. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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FreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat


Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3453488 - 12/06/04 04:52 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even if the oversaturation is merely due to a couple of pronounced Christians wandering in here by happenstance, could it not be the proper oppurtunity to undertake this?
Thanks for being sensitive to use the word prounounced as oppposed to professed. It isa totally clear to me that you have a good head on your shoulders(even if you DO need a haircut lol!*) and a good heart
And as you pointed out, you don't have problem with anyone who has adopted a belief system IF their experience is based on something that is real to THEM. I realize i'm(we're, Christians, REAL ones i mean ) in so much that religious intolerance appears to be a(the?) cornerstone of my/our faith especially when so many people here in this forum reject dualism and might see one as myself as creating polarities/separations etc which exist only in MY head
whereas i appear(and probably am) predicating an actual external God/adversary Heaven/hell dichotomy but hopefully we can all get along as human beings despite our philosophical/religious differences

*J/k man, mine used to be longer, when i had hair that is
-------------------- "Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"
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FreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat


Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
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Re: The Recent Oversaturation Of Christian God Shit Here... [Re: fireworks_god]
#3453492 - 12/06/04 05:00 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even if the oversaturation is merely due to a couple of pronounced Christians wandering in here by happenstance,
It wasn't happenstance my friend, God TOLD me to come in here, it was HIM that told me what to put in my Sig There really is no such thing as a part time Christian(if that person is genuine), it's all or nothing which can make some of us(not me though ) come accross as total bastards with nothing else to do BUT jam our opinions down everyone else's that does't happen to occur with our reality assesment(opinion)
I wil as ST8ed earlier try and excercise a bit more restraint in the futue as perhaps after his initial outpouring it will be enough for me to just have God's message of salvation in my sig and take a page from Frog's book and not be such an obnoxious blabber mouth
-------------------- "Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"
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