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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
To Swami and his followers
    #3447401 - 12/04/04 10:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

This is a post from a earlier thread and I thought is was worth posting for all to see.




You are right I have made a few stabs at analyzing you. You have made many stabs at me and others. That is your motivation around here.

I have not forgotten our bet. But after much thought I feel it would be better to prove you wrong and not take your money.

I will be in your area again in March. We will settle the matter then.

20 grand is not the issue and it is Very easy to play us like punks because people do not produce 20 grand. It would be far better to prove you wrong without any cash.

But in your great way of doing things you will not take such an offer. As your 20 grand is the shield that you need to keep this silly ego game you play going strong.

When you continue to question the beliefs of those that confess truly knowing God. While you have confessed to not getting the results you wanted after trying the GOD thing.

You had better know that, yes in fact, you are going to be challenged by people who do not take your talk lightly.

I in fact am one of them. And I will not stand by idle and let you continue to spread your false beliefs without some degree of standing up for myself and God.

For just as easily as you dismiss the God I love. I dismiss your belief that God is not real.

God is in fact very real and does not take your talk with ease.

The truth will be heard even if those hearing it do not believe. And those that do believe will benefit from it.

As I have already said this is a SPIRITUAL AND PHILOSOPHY BOARD

Not a board completely dedicated to the dictation that God is false and not real.

This is a community and I will treat it as such


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447412 - 12/04/04 10:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

hehe...I know I'm a mod and all but...what thread was this from?  :grin:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: kaiowas]
    #3447422 - 12/04/04 10:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

What is "wrong" with being "right"?


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447425 - 12/04/04 10:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well I admire your intrepid boldness, and wish you well on your challenge. Allow me to clarify one certain thing:

A belief in a God is not a prerequisite to the discussion and practice of Spirituality and Philosophy.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineSigno
manamana
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447426 - 12/04/04 10:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Very well said, I never understood why wagering money on beliefs could lead to any enlightenment on a subject.


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Correlation is not causation!


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447436 - 12/04/04 10:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Oh, and how about if you accept his 20k, and simply give it to me when you win it, since you don't want it? :grin:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447438 - 12/04/04 10:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Followers? Is this a joke?

And those that do believe will benefit from it.

Except that the benefits, like the belief, is imaginary. Your personal story aside, Christians have roughly the same suicide, alcoholism, murder, adultery, wife-beating, child-molesting, tax-cheating rate as non-Christians. There is NO reason why a beneficial change (even an interior one) should not be readily apparent in large-scale behavorial social studies.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Signo]
    #3447452 - 12/04/04 10:17 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Very well said, I never understood why wagering money on beliefs could lead to any enlightenment on a subject.

Really? You don't understand how sports or the music industry works or even competing for wages in a corporation? Those that produce get rewarded. Those they merely jabber get very little if anything.

Are you not communicating on a machine based on HIGHLY TESTED ideas?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447457 - 12/04/04 10:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

it might be a joke :lol:

ok if you are to follow the teaching of swam, here would be the first rule

"do not follow"


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447461 - 12/04/04 10:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ha ha hahahha YES fuckknuckle your post reads like a cross between a fiddy-cent gangsta rap song and some old testament shit GOLDEN


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3447463 - 12/04/04 10:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree very much

It is all the continual attacks that God is not real that has caused this thread.

I for one am very open to many teachings. I have benefited to many outside teachings and look forward to many other thoughts and teachings

God has provided much wisdom in other places then the bible.

I am not one to say that the bible is it. I find faults in it all the time.

Even in the teachings of people that think god is not real there are Godly principals and things of great value

I do not confine myself to a narrow window. I am a follower of Jesus but not a dismiser of wise teachings.

:heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineSigno
manamana
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447479 - 12/04/04 10:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Great job of convuluting words in an eloquent way. There's a difference between investing and wagering. You are far from being a swami, you seem like a better  :blah:


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Correlation is not causation!


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447485 - 12/04/04 10:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

but Swami - if the spiritual experience is something outside of the realm of normal consciousness, then western science tends to break down in analysing it. modern psychiatry basically says there is the normal, waking state, there is the dream state, and everything else is some form of psychosis. if we don't have the proper tools to analyse the spiritual experience - if the inherent nature of it is one outside of deconstruction (in a sense, the basis of all western scientific thought) - then how could either side "produce" anything? There's that famous quote (I have no idea who said it, though) - "the difference between an atheist and a believer is that they come to opposite conclusions from the same lack of evidence"


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Krishna]
    #3447505 - 12/04/04 10:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The proof lies within and can not be seen by those outside self. The only real proof to any ones " Wisdom, Enlightenment or Relationship with God"

Would be the Fruits of the person's life and actions.

The fact that God can not be seen is a very difficult thing to except. And can not be proven with a seen thing. To prove the unseen with a seen thing is kind silly. Ain't it ?

That is why God requires us to come to him.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447515 - 12/04/04 10:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

why is it an attack fucknuckle?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: kaiowas]
    #3447534 - 12/04/04 10:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well maybe it is not but, God is not happy when he is portrayed as not being real.

Attack is a wrong choice of words. But with my every post speaking about God it seems I am told I am Delusional.

I am speaking from my head and only giving a human reaction to something I hold so close.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447542 - 12/04/04 10:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

well, i definitely disagree with your classification of "god" as a "him"... but i understand your point, and agree for the most part. the way i've thought about it is like this -

say each "ego" is a circle. we get information from the outside world, and about other people, and this enters into our circle. when people communicate with each other, you have a bunch of circles all sending information back and forth. now, some religions (and most atheists) view god as another circle. perhaps a really great circle - a super powerful circle - but another circle, nonetheless - seperate from your individual circle. and so, the question of scientific "proof" of god is a valid one - if that circle exists, you should be able to indirectly or directly get information about it. however, what if god isn't another circle? what if there is an all-encompassing circle? there would be no way to infer anything about this circle, because we are a part of it. In the words of Eckhart - "God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere." i guess this explanation makes more sense if you draw little pictures, but i'm too lazy to do that right now, so i hope you get my idea...


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447548 - 12/04/04 10:44 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
God is not happy when he is portrayed as not being real.




seriously? i would think that the infinite totality of all eternity would be far above and beyond a duality like "happy/sad".  or for that matter, "real/not real".

:shrug:


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447553 - 12/04/04 10:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

cool!!! I was just checkin ya know...no ego games :laugh:

even though I don't have a confirmed belief in god, I accept your views as they are.

now..how about discussing some of these viewpoints, not for validity, but for pure discussion.

"God is not happy when he is portrayed as not being real"

why?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Krishna]
    #3447558 - 12/04/04 10:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I get what you are saying


For me, the questions of how or what exactly God is has yet to be answered. God and his grace gives me what I can handle and will revel sucj things to me when it is needed.

To speak of God as a " Him, He, or father" is more from my long hours reading the bible more than what my absolute understanding of what exactly God is or is not.

God I hold as a separate being from myself as of now. What happens to that relationship after I die I don't know. Jesus himself said that some things are far past the human mind to fully understand and these things will be known to you at the right time. I assume that he was speaking of when I die.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447573 - 12/04/04 10:50 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

But with my every post speaking about God it seems I am told I am Delusional.

Try to stay with me here. By some estimates there are some 30,000 different religious sects. Most all of them claim to be the ONE AND ONLY true way. Even those who do make allowances for other religions will tell you theirs is THE BEST WAY.

So basically, either 29,999 sects are wrong (read: delusional) or all 30,000 are in error. This is flawless logic and is nothing personal against you.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Krishna]
    #3447574 - 12/04/04 10:50 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

There is no proof of Gods existence.

Therefore, I don't have a belief in him.

It is simple and logically sound.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447580 - 12/04/04 10:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

God is not happy when he is portrayed as not being real.

God has an ego or is capable of getting his feelings hurt?
Awwww...poor God!

Excuse my being flippant, but..
Aren't you really saying that his followers are not happy when their concept of God is challenged?


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: looner2]
    #3447586 - 12/04/04 10:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

unless the inherent nature of "God" is beyond the subject-object orientation that is necessary for scientific proof. then, the tools of the scientific method break down - it's not that they prove "God" doesn't exist, it's that they are incapable of addressing the question. In my mind, it doesn't mean that one should abandon the question - it means that one needs to search for different methods by which to investigate it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: kaiowas]
    #3447592 - 12/04/04 10:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I knew the minute I said that this question would be asked.

I know that God is a emotional being. He is a being built of Pure Love. And Love is capable of being Sad or disappointed. The bible has many stories about God and his needs.

Jesus was God living as a Man and Jesus was pissed off a few times and he was sad as held our sins in his hands. He asked God to forgive us many, many times and cried.

Your question is a very difficult one to answer. I don't think I can do a good enough Job to satisfy you.

I struggle with it myself. I can tell you that during deep prayer I can feel the sadness that God feels over Mans continual denial of him. God wants nothing more than all of Man kind to love him.

I will do some study the next couple nights and try to find scripture to answer this hard question

God is not a emotionless being that I know for sure :thumbup:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Krishna]
    #3447603 - 12/04/04 10:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)


unless the inherent nature of "God" is beyond the subject-object orientation that is necessary for scientific proof. then, the tools of the scientific method break down - it's not that they prove "God" doesn't exist, it's that they are incapable of addressing the question. In my mind, it doesn't mean that one should abandon the question - it means that one needs to search for different methods by which to investigate it.


"subject-object orientation"

What does that mean? Is it a classy way to say, "reality". Then yes, the scientific way only applies to reality. What else is there? Nothing that you or I know of, so why insist that something else exists?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinethe_phoenix
Stranger

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447611 - 12/04/04 10:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:Try to stay with me here. By some estimates there are some 30,000 different religious sects. Most all of them claim to be the ONE AND ONLY true way. Even those who do make allowances for other religions will tell you theirs is THE BEST WAY.

So basically, either 29,999 sects are wrong (read: delusional) or all 30,000 are in error. This is flawless logic and is nothing personal against you.


From a more conventional (specific, individual) perspective, the 30 000 personal gods do exist. From a more fundamental (general, universal) perspective, there is only one god.

Something illusory is not non-existent, it merely exists in an illusory manner. Why must you polarize the issue? One is right and the rest are wrong? What about they are all right to varying degrees? Just as everything is illusory to varying degrees, and everything is imaginary to varying degrees?


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447636 - 12/04/04 11:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
But with my every post speaking about God it seems I am told I am Delusional.

Try to stay with me here. By some estimates there are some 30,000 different religious sects. Most all of them claim to be the ONE AND ONLY true way. Even those who do make allowances for other religions will tell you theirs is THE BEST WAY.

So basically, either 29,999 sects are wrong (read: delusional) or all 30,000 are in error. This is flawless logic and is nothing personal against you.




Swami you will not ever hear me say that anyone religion is the right one. I know that God is very much part of many things and many systems. The fact that life is a choice between good and evil is the bigger picture. All men learn of evil and good. All men know that murder is wrong. The fact that some many religions are in conflict is a testament to who is master over this world.

I do know that Jesus is the only way to get to God. Jesus has made many visits to many cultures. He made a visit to the American Indians at some time and he will make himself known to all. I have no one answer for you Friend. There are many mysteries that I can not know the answers to. Jesus himself said that God allows us each to understand what it si that God needs us to know. Keep the goal on him and these things will be known to you when you need to know. There are no absolute answers to such questions.

I know God and he lets me in on the things he needs me to know. That is why I have such a great friendship with him. I don't push my own understanding on him. I wait for his wisdom and grace.

I can not say how god get things done. I am not God.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: looner2]
    #3447651 - 12/04/04 11:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

no, there is a definite distinction (in my mind) between "reality" and "subject-object orientation". a subject-object orientation assumes a seperation between the observer, and the observed. now, one might make the argument that modern physics has, in a sense, rendered the scientific method futile - as it has shown that there can be no such thing as an "impartial" observer. there is no way to "observe" an event without "observing" it - and if by "observing" it, you change it - then there is no way to analyze an event free from your interference. (maybe i'm not explaining this idea so well, but i hope you see my point). beyond this argument, what about "internal" states of being? when the "object" in question is the "subject" - ie self-reflection? clearly one cannot take an objective point of view when examining themselves. is the "internal" state of being not a part of reality, because it cannot be verified by any external observer? maybe it's all in my imagination, and there is no internal state of being.... but then wouldn't the presence of my imagination indicate that there is such an internal state?


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Krishna]
    #3447686 - 12/04/04 11:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)


no, there is a definite distinction (in my mind) between "reality" and "subject-object orientation". a subject-object orientation assumes a seperation between the observer, and the observed.


No idea what you are saying.

now, one might make the argument that modern physics has, in a sense, rendered the scientific method futile - as it has shown that there can be no such thing as an "impartial" observer. there is no way to "observe" an event without "observing" it - and if by "observing" it, you change it - then there is no way to analyze an event free from your interference. (maybe i'm not explaining this idea so well, but i hope you see my point).

No, I don't see your point, I am thoroughly confused. I do know that modern physics has not rendered the scientific method futile. Are you writing about the theory of relativity with the "observe" talk?



is the "internal" state of being not a part of reality, because it cannot be verified by any external observer? maybe it's all in my imagination, and there is no internal state of being.... but then wouldn't the presence of my imagination indicate that there is such an internal state?

Consciousness, or brain activity is comprised of electrical impulses, which can be verified through lots of means.

Sorry, but thats all I can say with your post. I struggled with each sentence. If i can't understand I can't respond anymore.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: looner2]
    #3447764 - 12/04/04 11:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

ok i'll try to clarify myself a bit. no, i wasn't referring to the theory of relativity - that is about reference points, and contraction/dialation of space-time. i'm talking about some "discoveries" in quantum physics. basically, the concept is - simply by observing something, we affect it. on the sub-atomic level, this can easily be seen - the only way to get any information about, say, an electron, is to hit it with a photon, and then "catch" the photon as it comes back. this is, basically, what sight is - photons hit atoms, and then bounce back into our eyes. however, in hitting the electron, the photon increases the potential energy of that electron - and if this energy increase is enough, the electron should "jump" energy levels (this analogy, commonly known as the planetary model of atoms, is actually very misleading - if we accept the probabilistic model shown by Shrodinger, et al - things become a lot stranger). so anyway, this breaks down the distinction between "observer" (ie the scientist) and "observed" (ie the atom) - simply by looking at the atom, the scientist changes it. now the scientific method has been based on the idea that the "observer" can be removed from the equation, and it won't make a difference - that the observer does not effect the object they are observing. however, if we accept the discoveries of quantum physics, we lose this objectivity. in a sense, it confirms something that makes linguistic sense - you can't look at something without looking at it.

any clearer? to really do these theories any justice, it would require a lot more explanation then i'm capable of...

as to your second point, brain activity can be verified through many means, that is true. but consciousness? i've seen studies where they show correlations between certain patterns of thought and areas of brain activity (for instance, certain centers of the brain being more "active" during meditation) - but i have yet to see any study that shows where the "thought" itself is.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447806 - 12/04/04 11:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So let me get this straight, swami runs around here rebutting beliefs in God and offering a 20,000 wager against the existance of God?

I've read some funny shit before, but this one made me piss myself. :smile:


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447850 - 12/04/04 11:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Arguing for or against the existance of God is just pissing into the wind. If the existance or non-existance of God makes no practical difference in the operation of the universe the whole converstion is a useless argument, and one's personal interaction with God is so subjective as to be irrelevant to all other people. Getting upset because someone does not (or does) believe is useless as well. It is not a personal issue that needs to be defended. It is either self evident or it isn't.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3447866 - 12/05/04 12:02 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Why must you polarize the issue?

WTF? I do not polarize the issue. The followers themselves make the statements about theirs being the only true path, not I.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3447870 - 12/05/04 12:02 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"If God does not exist, it would be impossible to prove it, but if God does exist,it would be folly to try to prove it." - S?ren Kierkegaard


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447880 - 12/05/04 12:04 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Swami you will not ever hear me say that anyone religion is the right one.
I won't, eh?

I do know that Jesus is the only way to get to God.
In direct contrast to your opening statement.

I rest my case.


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3447891 - 12/05/04 12:07 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

...and offering a 20,000 wager against the existance of God?

Somebody here is on drugs and it ain't me. It is almost impossible to hold a conversation with people who hallucinate words, nevermind undetectable beings.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447899 - 12/05/04 12:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

can you clarify the terms of this wager, swami? i've only heard indirect talk of it... maybe i can claim that 20 grand :smile:


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3447926 - 12/05/04 12:15 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
I knew the minute I said that this question would be asked.

I know that God is a emotional being. He is a being built of Pure Love. And Love is capable of being Sad or disappointed. The bible has many stories about God and his needs.

Jesus was God living as a Man and Jesus was pissed off a few times and he was sad as held our sins in his hands. He asked God to forgive us many, many times and cried.

Your question is a very difficult one to answer. I don't think I can do a good enough Job to satisfy you.

I struggle with it myself. I can tell you that during deep prayer I can feel the sadness that God feels over Mans continual denial of him. God wants nothing more than all of Man kind to love him.

I will do some study the next couple nights and try to find scripture to answer this hard question

God is not a emotionless being that I know for sure :thumbup:




tis all good fucknuckle.  I think scriptures would be cool so see, but like I said before, i'm not asking for defence, just why you think so.

what in your experience told you...god is not emotionless. I'd rather hear your words, but if you can express your words through scripture..go for it :smile:

what would god's reasoning be? :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


Edited by kaiowas (12/05/04 12:47 AM)


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447936 - 12/05/04 12:17 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"Jesus is the only way to get to God."

BAHAHAHAHAHA that sounds like jesus is some sort of super duper teleportal unit and God is some far off distant city.

Like this cat jesus is just some dude that helps people sneak accross some mystical border. LOL

Jesus says: "O.K. God will see you now...

...You know I'm the only way to get to God. HEY! Hey you can't go in there man, you didn't go through me, hey come back here, come back!!!!

....Yeah, I got tickets to god man, and I'm the only one who gots 'em. ..

Jesus is but a flying carpet to swoosh you in to see God ..

LOL I'll sneak under the fucking fence. ha!


--------------------
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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3447949 - 12/05/04 12:20 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
...and offering a 20,000 wager against the existance of God?

Somebody here is on drugs and it ain't me. It is almost impossible to hold a conversation with people who hallucinate words, nevermind undetectable beings.




hahahaha lol yeah I'm on drooooooogs man. big bad dangerous ones that make me hallucinate and see god! aaaaaah watch out, you're gonna become a true believer soooooon lol


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3447953 - 12/05/04 12:20 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I'm laughing so hard my eyes are tearing up.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3447972 - 12/05/04 12:26 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

bahahahahaha tell me about it..

I love watching athiests and Christians T off on each other, it's ridiculous fun to see it go down.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3447998 - 12/05/04 12:31 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
"Jesus is the only way to get to God."

BAHAHAHAHAHA that sounds like jesus is some sort of super duper teleportal unit and God is some far off distant city.

Like this cat jesus is just some dude that helps people sneak accross some mystical border. LOL

Jesus says: "O.K. God will see you now...

...You know I'm the only way to get to God. HEY! Hey you can't go in there man, you didn't go through me, hey come back here, come back!!!!

....Yeah, I got tickets to god man, and I'm the only one who gots 'em. ..

Jesus is but a flying carpet to swoosh you in to see God ..

LOL I'll sneak under the fucking fence. ha!




It was this.

Sounds like something I would say when I'm feeling things are getting ridiculous. I like to add to the ridiculous to show how ridiculous the ridiculous is.  :crazy2:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3448054 - 12/05/04 12:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, the thing is, let's just say that I am 100% personally convinced that God does exist....

...but I'm not one of them fuckin' "believers". Now that does not mean that I do not love God. It just means that I do not believe that God is some sort of Zeus-like warrior God that leads "christians" to "battle".

that's bullshit. Why would God create humanity so that he could take sides in our petty disputes?

Christians have the bible, but they must not read very well. The bible speaks of loving each other, being truthful and real, and spreading peace and love.

Too many of these "believers" think they are in some sort of elite club, so obviously they shot straight past the whole point of life in their "zeal" to be the "leet Christian warriors". LOL

Further, I could give a flying fuck if someone thinks God doesn't exist. It's not my personal responsibility to convince monkeys that wheels are round. They should have figured that shit out for themselves when they saw them spin. :smirk:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3448095 - 12/05/04 12:56 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I can feel the sadness that God feels over Mans continual denial of him. God wants nothing more than all of Man kind to love him.

This doesn't make any sense.

If God wants people to believe in him so badly, he can have one new believer, namely me, instantly by simply showing up at my front door and doing something impossible.

Levitating me for a few minutes would be most effective and certainly within the powers of an omnipotent being.

If he doesn't like that I don't believe in him, he has only himself to blame.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Diploid]
    #3448110 - 12/05/04 01:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

true. He can feel his own sadness, not God's.

God don't give a fuck.

Jesus does...

...that's why you gotta go through him.


--------------------
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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3448126 - 12/05/04 01:05 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Jesus gots the best dope, oh ye saints!!

Come smoke jesus' sweet sweet herb ye faithful!!!

Oh when we finally arrive....


--------------------
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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3448128 - 12/05/04 01:05 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
true. He can feel his own sadness, not God's.

God don't give a fuck.

Jesus does...

...that's why you gotta go through him.





do you have evidence for that my friend?  :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: kaiowas]
    #3448141 - 12/05/04 01:10 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Big whoop that Jesus died on a cross. So he had to suffer for a couple days. Not bad knowing you will have a very powerful place in heaven for all eternity. Us mortals have to die with the ever looming thought, "is this it???". Jesus was weak.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: kaiowas]
    #3448160 - 12/05/04 01:16 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well, to me it stands to reason...

God is Love right?  O.K. so jesus is the only way to God...

Therefore jesus is the only way to love...

which to me means that God is just mindless everlasting love, but you can't get there without going through Jesus, which means God as a man, which means the rational, reasoning form of god.

Therefore ya gotta please the thinking form of God (jesus)through your actions, before you can get to where nothing matters and you're always happy.

No I don't have proof, see my other thread titled " I don't know shit". :grin:


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: looner2]
    #3448164 - 12/05/04 01:17 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Big whoop that Jesus died on a cross. So he had to suffer for a couple days. Not bad knowing you will have a very powerful place in heaven for all eternity. Us mortals have to die with the ever looming thought, "is this it???". Jesus was weak.




hahaha That's gonna ruffle some birds' feathers I bet. :grin:


--------------------
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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3448167 - 12/05/04 01:19 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"Us mortals have to die with the ever looming thought, "is this it???". Jesus was weak."


:lol:


hahahaha


damn, that almost made me spit out jd and coke :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Diploid]
    #3448190 - 12/05/04 01:24 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I can feel the sadness that God feels over Mans continual denial of him.

Sorry, but I'm not buying that either. I think that is assigning human motivations and emotions to a cosmic being who is in a constant state of bliss. He's not allowing the human condition to bring him down. He wouldn't be God if he functioned in that manner!

God being sad over someone not believing in Him is almost as hard to imagine as His being upset at blasphemy. I never got why blasphemy was a sin. I mean, does anyone really think God blows a gasket every time some infinitesmaly tiny speck of dust he created has the temerity to disrespect Him? Does God get offended easily?

Once again, it seems to me that these are emotions projected upon God by those who have annointed themselves as his advocates. They assign to God their own thoughts and emotions only in a dramatically scaled up fashion.


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Jellric]
    #3448215 - 12/05/04 01:28 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly, people "humanize" God. They take a big president in the sky, give him an ego, give him human emotions and a personality, and then tell everybody he is Absolute. Human arrogance at its best

Also a reason some people find God, while others do not- those who find him look into their own subconscious


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Ravus]
    #3448334 - 12/05/04 01:53 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

They give him our image too.


--------------------
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3448508 - 12/05/04 02:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
I know that God is a emotional being. He is a being built of Pure Love. And Love is capable of being Sad or disappointed. The bible has many stories about God and his needs.




More delusion, and a completemisunderstanding of what love is.

Now tell me, if pure, true love is a state of ultimate acceptance and of appreciation for something, you know, love, then how can love, an experience of thought and emotion, be capable of being sad? Or disappointed?

I'm sorry, but that does not make sense. Emotions are not capable of being other emotions. That in itself is some sort of strange misunderstanding. It is possible that someone who experiences one emotion is capable of experiencing another emotion, but that is completely different.

I'm sorry, but if you cannot accept the well-known thought of God having infinite, pure love implying complete and utter acceptance of every state of everything in his Creation, and that God is so shallow and unconscious as to be emotionally addicted to the state of his Creation, then you are missing one of the most fundamental points and active ingredients of the Christian faith.

It is the belief in a God that completely and purely accepts you, as you are, no matter your failings your thoughts, where you have been or where you are going, that offers such transcendence from personal troubles and negative feelings. Going through the God door to achieve a higher state of mind is a little more seperating and delusional than purely taking reality as it is observed and experienced, but the intention andt he experience are more or less the same, and far more advanced and ultimately better for yourself and other's well being.

However, this does not in any way involve the notion of a weak and emotionally addictive, physical God. This does not involve strict belief in things that are not observable or knowable, for all but the highest degree, assuming their is a God in the first place. This does not involve suffocating and obscuring one's experience. This involves a placebo for spiritual transcendence. Limited, low-order, unconscious, human notions of God as he reflects the state of mind of these mostly unconscious humans. Jesus might indeed be offering a path but it is not a literal one and does not take physical form, it is a state of being.

The true concept of a Christian God certainly is not an emotionless being, but he certainly is not a being that is stuck in a low consciousness state suffering through negative, limited "emotions", which more resemble electrical discharge from crossed circuits rather than true, deep, straight from the state of being emotions. It is not a being that is trapped within concrete, fixed misconceptions that offer nothing towards the direct experience of the being of Christ. Not the seperate human being Christ, but the action of each and every one of us being Christ. It is an experience in each and every moment, and it is not clogged and drowned in any form of low level consciousness. Christ is ultimate, pure awareness, and the world and God take on a much different form than when thinking through a deeply misprogrammed, advanced primate mind that is almost completley identified with.

Your mind is seperating your from reality and from God. Why don't you ease up on your control of your thought and of your ideas regarding God and let the experience of God permeate your mind and flow throughout your translucent, spacious being? No point in dimming your awareness, after all, why don't you live and be the life, living in Christ?  :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Krishna]
    #3448519 - 12/05/04 02:54 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Krishna said:
well, i definitely disagree with your classification of "god" as a "him"... but i understand your point, and agree for the most part. the way I've thought about it is like this -

say each "ego" is a circle. we get information from the outside world, and about other people, and this enters into our circle. when people communicate with each other, you have a bunch of circles all sending information back and forth. now, some religions (and most atheists) view god as another circle. perhaps a really great circle - a super powerful circle - but another circle, nonetheless - separate from your individual circle. and so, the question of scientific "proof" of god is a valid one - if that circle exists, you should be able to indirectly or directly get information about it. however, what if god isn't another circle? what if there is an all-encompassing circle? there would be no way to infer anything about this circle, because we are a part of it. In the words of Erhart - "God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere." i guess this explanation makes more sense if you draw little pictures, but I'm too lazy to do that right now, so i hope you get my idea...





awesome. :thumbup:

Nicholas of Cuza saw the big Circle which is God as having an infinite radius. He drew a line tangent to the circle and called the line man (representing both each human's little circle, as well as the circle which represents all of creation.)

A tangent line intersects the arc of a circle at one and only one point. The point where the circle which is God touches the tangent which is man is both God and man simultaneously. Hence Lightningfractal's correct assertion that there is only one way to God- through the one point which is both God and Man.


Here's the catch:

When observing the arc of a circle one can notice that the appearance of the arc changes with the size of the circle and the observer's distance from it. The arc of a small circle is clearly distinguishable from a straight line, but as the circle becomes large the arc appears to flatten out (for instance the apparent flatness of the earth and sea). As the observer moves away from the large circle, its arc becomes more noticeable. Given a circle with an infinite radius, from any perspective no matter how distant, the arc will appear flat. Now if we were to run a line tangent to the arc of an infinite circle which appears to be flat, the tangent line and the arc will appear to be the same straight line, though in fact by definition they only intersect at one point.

This is a geometric model the great mystery of Christianity.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3449152 - 12/05/04 10:30 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Followers? Is this a joke?

And those that do believe will benefit from it.

Except that the benefits, like the belief, is imaginary. Your personal story aside, Christians have roughly the same suicide, alcoholism, murder, adultery, wife-beating, child-molesting, tax-cheating rate as non-Christians. There is NO reason why a beneficial change (even an interior one) should not be readily apparent in large-scale behavorial social studies.





Swami:I love YOU as a brother as well despite our religious/philosophical differences. As is often the case you are able to substantiate your non belief in God by producing "facts". I am not arguing your facts, i am willing to accept what you have just said soley on your word. My rebuttle is that the Christians to which you refer are not REAL Christians. "Many are called but few are chosen" or words to that effect :wink:

Peace be with you
:sun: :heart: :sun: :thumbup: :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3449199 - 12/05/04 10:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
bahahahahaha tell me about it..

I love watching athiests and Christians T off on each other, it's ridiculous fun to see it go down.





The one difference between atheists and Christians(real ones i mean, and that could very well be the minority for all i know)Atheists by and large tend to hate(ever wonder where this hate is coming from, or more properly from WHOM it is coming?) Children of God, those that have invited God into their lives by accepting the salvation of Jesus Christ for REAL, where as a true Christian has nothing but Love and compassion for atheists and sincerly hopes that even the most unbelieving of atheists comes to God before they die, because then it will be too late :frown:

I realize i may come accross as trying to argue, i am not. Being a Christian(born again or not) isn't a spectator sport. We can not sit idly by in a world where rape, murder, child molesting etc are accepted and passed of as:"Oh, they're just fufilling their karmic destinies" or whatever other BS it is that makes people so accepting of all the really bad stuff that is going on in the world

I guess in a really nice way i am trying to say: Wake the FUCK up, B4 it's too late  :heart:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449260 - 12/05/04 11:13 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Shit, these threads are INSANE.

Once again I find myself saying, "why did I come in here?"

Oh yeah, I remember now. I wanted to say this:

STOP CREATING SEPERATION!!!!!!!!!

For christ's sake! (no pun intended) If you want conflict, you will find it by making overly generalized seperations like "All you Christians" and "Swami and his followers."

It's FACT that SOME Christians are truly loving people with their heart in the right place, and SOME Christians are deeply fucked up. The same goes for EVERY OTHER RELIGION.

Don't be so quick to place yourself on one side or the other of THAT distinction. Instead, sit back and question for a few moments whether or not you are being as true to yourself and to your fellow man as you could be.

It's ALSO true that everyone who disagrees with you does not AUTOMATICALLY BECOME YOUR ENEMY. Don't rush to lump people together in such generalizations as "Swami and his followers". Which one am I? Here's a hint: I think Swami's fucking right, but I also think he's kind of a dick about it.

So where do you place me? Since you're so damn good at seperation, perhaps you can help to show me where I fit into your black and white scale.

Here's a hint: There is a lot of grey in the middle, and I LIVE in that grey zone. A LOT of us do.

P.S. This response is a general response and I not directed at you personally FreakQ.. infact, you're probably one of the only ones this isn't directed to, ironically.  :smirk:


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: looner2]
    #3449274 - 12/05/04 11:18 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Big whoop that Jesus died on a cross. So he had to suffer for a couple days. Not bad knowing you will have a very powerful place in heaven for all eternity. Us mortals have to die with the ever looming thought, "is this it???". Jesus was weak.





Jesus "weak"? Um, no. Even his last words on the cross were something like:"Father, why has thou forsaken me?" I am suggesting(obviously i don't KNOW) the very real possibility that Jesus's last worldy thought was that all of his suffering had been in vain. That would have been a horrible way to go after all he had been through on Man's behalf. He had to die as any other mortal man would(unless of course they had accepted God's gift of salvation through Jesus)

This is not weakness on my part either, i'm sure that most of you here are smart enough that You would have turned to God after he had shown YOU that Heaven and Hell were realities, I on the other hand waited 30 years  :crazy:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3449602 - 12/05/04 12:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Followers? Is this a joke?

And those that do believe will benefit from it.

Except that the benefits, like the belief, is imaginary. Your personal story aside, Christians have roughly the same suicide, alcoholism, murder, adultery, wife-beating, child-molesting, tax-cheating rate as non-Christians. There is NO reason why a beneficial change (even an interior one) should not be readily apparent in large-scale behavorial social studies.




Firsty, whoever said that when you become a Christian you are from then on perfect? Yes, there are DEFINETLY internal benefits (non-imaginary - if you were a Christian you would understand), but Jesus and his message for the future of those who followed them wasn't to be a perfect and "easy" one, but a continuos battle against the evil that Jesus taught against and persecution by those who are unbelieving..

Secondly, statistics mean nothing and I would like to see your source of information for that claim. Also, you have to take into account the true Christian and the hypocritical Christians to be 100% accurate in your claims and don't think that where you got that information (probably just your own reasoning) can really seperate true from false Christian.

You took the man's claim out of context Swami.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449614 - 12/05/04 12:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I totally hear where you're coming from when you say separation, however it wasn't me that started and named the thread, as much as anyone on these boards i would like us all to be one giant extended family of man irrespective of religious/philosophicl beliefs, skin color ad infinitum and i totally realize that my particular chosen faith does tends to separate people. I am forced to espouse what i believe to be true at the risk of causing schisms which I PERSONally wish didn't even exist, man you really force me to examine my self and my beliefs  :heart: :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449622 - 12/05/04 12:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Hehe.. like I said man, that response wasn't directed to you really. I didn't want to direct it at anyone in particular, and so I just responded to the last post. :smile:


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449634 - 12/05/04 12:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

This response is a general response and I not directed at you personally FreakQ.. infact, you're probably one of the only ones this isn't directed to, ironically. 


That IS irony in action :grin: I'm sincerely glad you feel that way Jacques :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleJellric
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449639 - 12/05/04 12:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Even his last words on the cross were something like:"Father, why has thou forsaken me?" I am suggesting(obviously i don't KNOW) the very real possibility that Jesus's last worldy thought was that all of his suffering had been in vain.

Actually, his last words were "It is finished." which suggests to me that he knew his mission was complete. God turned his face away from him for a moment before that, and that too was part of his trial.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Jellric]
    #3449656 - 12/05/04 12:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

ya I saw the movie too :smile:


--------------------



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OfflineGomp
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Jellric]
    #3449660 - 12/05/04 01:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"It is finished, set it free"
-unknown :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Jellric]
    #3449669 - 12/05/04 01:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well if that was in fact a proper correction then thanks for the elucidation :wink:As it turns out i'm just starting to get aquaintedwith the Bible now :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineFrog
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449673 - 12/05/04 01:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FreakQlibrium said:
Quote:

Swami said:
Followers? Is this a joke?

And those that do believe will benefit from it.

Except that the benefits, like the belief, is imaginary. Your personal story aside, Christians have roughly the same suicide, alcoholism, murder, adultery, wife-beating, child-molesting, tax-cheating rate as non-Christians. There is NO reason why a beneficial change (even an interior one) should not be readily apparent in large-scale behavorial social studies.





Swami:I love YOU as a brother as well despite our religious/philosophical differences. As is often the case you are able to substantiate your non belief in God by producing "facts". I am not arguing your facts, i am willing to accept what you have just said soley on your word. My rebuttle is that the Christians to which you refer are not REAL Christians. "Many are called but few are chosen" or words to that effect :wink:

Peace be with you
:sun: :heart: :sun: :thumbup: :thumbup: :smile:




It's not surprising that Christians have the same suicide rate, etc., as atheists.  In fact, there are many Christians that will be left behind when rapture occurs becuase they didn't really "believe".  They just mouthed the words. 

After rapture, they will have a second chance, before Jesus comes one last time.

But they didn't really believe in Jesus and God, or they wouldn't do all the things they did.  You can tell a Christian by his deeds.  By his works.  Not by the words he mouths.  And it's the "Christians" who merely mouth the words that create a bad name for Christians who truly believe and who truly try to live a life like Christ's.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Frog]
    #3449712 - 12/05/04 01:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

^^^^W3RD

You can take the Freak out of OTD but you can't take the OTD out of the Freak :grin:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3449733 - 12/05/04 01:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

He had to die as any other mortal man would(unless of course they had accepted God's gift of salvation through Jesus)





But then Jesus would not have died for their sins, so there would have been no salvation available for them anyway.

Right?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3449761 - 12/05/04 01:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Also, you have to take into account the true Christian and the hypocritical Christians to be 100% accurate in your claims.

Please include a metric so that I may be more accurate.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449768 - 12/05/04 01:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Here's a hint: I think Swami's fucking right, but I also think he's kind of a dick about it.

But seeing as how I use the word "please" more frequently than anyone else here, you must admit I am a very polite dick.  :tongue2:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3449775 - 12/05/04 01:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
Quote:

He had to die as any other mortal man would(unless of course they had accepted God's gift of salvation through Jesus)





But then Jesus would not have died for their sins, so there would have been no salvation available for them anyway.

Right?





Excellent point LF, i should prolly go back to read my original post but of course, THAT would make too much sense :smile: so i'll attempt to interpret what you just said in light of what I had said earlier even though i have no idea of what that was :grin:

I didn't mean the statement that you put in bold print to refer to the people that were there B4 Jesus actually died......or did i? :confused:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3449782 - 12/05/04 01:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Nah, I think you're kind of condescending and subtly antagonistic.. which "please" doesn't really make up for in my book.

But everyone has their methods, and I am not going to frown upon you for yours. I think you are a good guy, even though I don't think you use the best tactics for getting through to others.

I'd tell you I think you should reconsider your methods, but I somehow doubt it would have any effect, so I will let it be.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449796 - 12/05/04 01:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I love it when philosophers quibble. LOL


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3449804 - 12/05/04 01:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

who's quibblin'? *shrug* I'm just being honest with the guy.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449805 - 12/05/04 01:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Nah, I think you're kind of condescending and subtly antagonistic...

People ACTUALLY LIKE getting their feathers ruffled a little. Check whose threads generally get the highest reader/response ratio and report back.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3449808 - 12/05/04 01:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Not sure I see your point. People love drama. Doesn't mean I agree with it on any level.

I usually stay away from the threads with the most action.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449826 - 12/05/04 01:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Not sure I see your point.

Controversy sparks debate, which draws people into expressing their opinions. If I start a thread called, "I love you guys", a few mush-puppies will repond and the thread will die quickly.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3449857 - 12/05/04 01:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Indeed, I certainly agree that your technique draws a lot of attention.

But that doesn't change the fact that it mostly draws negative attention in the form of people's defense mechanisms kicking in.

In my personal experiences in life, I have found that if I use techniques that are blunt and antagonistic, I get the result of close-minded defensive responses.

And that doesn't do anyone any good.

Obviously "I love you guys" alone is not going to draw any kind of expressive opinionation at all. If you were to say "I love you guys, but I think you should consider this alternative view to yours and maybe give it some thought" that would be a different thing all together.

Anyway, that's about as completely as I can express my opinion on your methodology. I don't have anything more to say, and I'm (obviously) not interested in turning this into a debate, so I hope you can see where I'm coming from without me having to explain further. (Because I won't be responding again to explain further.)


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3449878 - 12/05/04 01:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Also, you have to take into account the true Christian and the hypocritical Christians to be 100% accurate in your claims.

Please include a metric so that I may be more accurate.




No problem, but there's one problem. You made up that whole thing so.. there's the biggest problem.


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3449889 - 12/05/04 01:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

People love drama.

So, I should give people something that they hate? *scratches head*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3449916 - 12/05/04 02:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
I love it when quibblers philosophise. LOL




--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3450012 - 12/05/04 02:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But then Jesus would not have died for their sins, so there would have been no salvation available for them anyway.

Right?




No. Hereditary sin was invented by early Christians to rationalise why he had to be crucified.

The real reason he died on the cross is because the pharisees didn't like what he taught about religion and God, and the Jews themselves chose Barabas over Jesus.

Crucifiction was a Roman form of punishment meant for "terrorists", traitors and murderers. A prophet was meant to be stoned (not the dope-related variety, mind you).


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3450173 - 12/05/04 03:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Nah, I think you're kind of condescending and subtly antagonistic.. which "please" doesn't really make up for in my book.

But everyone has their methods, and I am not going to frown upon you for yours.


Isn't that what you just did?  :laugh:

Passive aggressive?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: zorbman]
    #3450191 - 12/05/04 03:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

He just took subtlety to a new level.  :tongue:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3450506 - 12/05/04 04:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Swami you will not ever hear me say that anyone religion is the right one.
I won't, eh?

I do know that Jesus is the only way to get to God.
In direct contrast to your opening statement.

I rest my case.




Once again you have put a very narrow Swami window on a persons statement.

Do you realize how many religious groups believe that Jesus is the way to God ? Hundreds Swami

My statement was correct.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3450522 - 12/05/04 05:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Christianity and it's close affiliates, are by many, considered "one" religion.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3450524 - 12/05/04 05:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The thousands of groups that are "wrong" will tell me JUST AS SINCERELY as you do that they are right.

Do you not see this?


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3450575 - 12/05/04 05:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Indeed, I certainly agree that your technique draws a lot of attention.

But that doesn't change the fact that it mostly draws negative attention in the form of people's defense mechanisms kicking in.






Well I agree with this. Let me say that while I may be somewhat defensive to Swami last few posts regarding my beliefs. It goes far past such a internal issue.

Swami has a certain cloud of "Huge Ego" and a complete lack of being wrong. I have yet to see Swami say he is wrong.( In fact I have seen him many times spew that he is correct and take much joy in it) I have not seen Swami in any way fall to the fact that he may be incorrect from time to time. It is very hard to prove or disprove many of the topics discussed here I understand that. Which is why he s so fond of this board.

The fact is that Men who are so filled with themselves really bothers me. Call it a personal weakness :rolleyes:

I have now invited Swami and those that hold his teachings close into my faults and beliefs. I am aware of my weakness and no perfectly well what I have invited.

Fact is Swami is not capable of finding fault in himself. Well maybe he can but he will never tell us. And for me that is a sign of a very poor leader.  :grin:

A person like Swami just invites a person like me to engage with him.

As Swami is not perfect. I too am not perfect.


He has spent much effort to Analyze others and sometimes down right insults them with mockery. So how surprised is anyone that a person will inspect him ? While Swami may be very intelligent he shows almost no wisdom and almost no respect for others.


P.S. I am not the first to say this :thumbup:


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
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Offlinedeff
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3450657 - 12/05/04 05:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think you've _ever_ seen swami...


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3450692 - 12/05/04 06:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

ok let me get this straight, fucknuckle wants to take swamis 20 000 dollar challenge, but for no money?

now i thought the challenge was if you can demonstrate some kind of paranormal phenomenon or ability in agreed upon conditions with impartial witnesses etc etc you got the money.

so what is it that your planning to do? you said some random stuff about the challenge and then some angry stuff about swami but i must have missed the when you said what it is that your going to show...


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OfflineAstrojax
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3450913 - 12/05/04 07:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

It seems fucknuckle is not so much delivering a message to Swami and his followers as he is reaffirming his own beliefs... and I'm glad to see that others have picked up on this.

Why is Fucknuckle derailing Swami's threads and making Swami specific posts? He's scared. Swami brings up points that are hard to refute... and it's crystal clear to me that fucknuckle is trying hard to find a strong enough position to withstand Swami's truth.

"you need to keep this silly ego game you play"
It's a game you're playing too.

"Not a board completely dedicated to the dictation that God is false and not real."
No such agenda exists.

"I will not stand by idle and let you continue to spread your false beliefs"
Swami takes an active approach dispelling myths and misinformation. You're a victim... you refuse to accept any truth other than you're own. People like you are the root of conflict.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Astrojax]
    #3450939 - 12/05/04 07:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

""People like you are the root of conflict.""

:lol: :thumbup: :heart:


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OfflineAstrojax
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Astrojax]
    #3450943 - 12/05/04 07:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Most of you who have owned animals will know what I am talking about. People tend to take there personalities and retrofit them to the pets they keep. If an animal is lying on the ground, and the owner is unhappy... the owner might make a comment about how sad it looks. And when the animal is hungry and looking for food, the owner will make up another story about how it is lonely. This is exactly what fucknuckle does to his imaginary pet.

Fucknuckle doesn't like the idea that you call his pet unreal... that makes him sad. Low and behold, god is sad when you question his existence. His posts are rife with this parallel.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Astrojax]
    #3450958 - 12/05/04 07:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

how do you know what "Fucknuckle doesn't like"?
not kidding :P if you got that ability, please do tell me what i like and/or dont like :wink: and if you really got 'it', could you tell me what my problem is, if any? :wink:
:thumbup: :heart:


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Edited by Gomp (12/05/04 07:27 PM)


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Gomp]
    #3450996 - 12/05/04 07:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not even gonna read this shit, but I'm gonna give you an advice.

If you can get 20 grand, get it, and do something nice for somebody. Make somebodys day/life better. Go love people.

I thought that was the way to follow Jesus. But, obviously, its discussing which inocular that percieves the universe most 'correct', standing up for yourself and your belief, and yatta.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Astrojax]
    #3451018 - 12/05/04 07:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Astrojax said:
Most of you who have owned animals will know what I am talking about. People tend to take there personalities and retrofit them to the pets they keep. If an animal is lying on the ground, and the owner is unhappy... the owner might make a comment about how sad it looks. And when the animal is hungry and looking for food, the owner will make up another story about how it is lonely. This is exactly what fucknuckle does to his imaginary pet.

Fucknuckle doesn't like the idea that you call his pet unreal... that makes him sad. Low and behold, god is sad when you question his existence. His posts are rife with this parallel.




Your "parallel" doesn't even make sense as Fucknuckle is justifying nothing in his own faith by arguing with Swami. Every man has the right to defend himself. Swami isn't always right and neither is FN. Of course it's going to piss FN off when someone says "oh that's horse shit" when they don't even know half of what goes on in FN life or his spiritual life for that matter.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3451021 - 12/05/04 07:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
Quote:

Astrojax said:
Most of you who have owned animals will know what I am talking about. People tend to take there personalities and retrofit them to the pets they keep. If an animal is lying on the ground, and the owner is unhappy... the owner might make a comment about how sad it looks. And when the animal is hungry and looking for food, the owner will make up another story about how it is lonely. This is exactly what fucknuckle does to his imaginary pet.

Fucknuckle doesn't like the idea that you call his pet unreal... that makes him sad. Low and behold, god is sad when you question his existence. His posts are rife with this parallel.




Your "parallel" doesn't even make sense as Fucknuckle is justifying nothing in his own faith by arguing with Swami. Every man has the right to defend himself. Swami isn't always right and neither is FN. Of course it's going to piss FN off when someone says "oh that's horse shit" when they don't even know half of what goes on in FN life or his spiritual life for that matter.




well said and its a point that we can all remember


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: kaiowas]
    #3451847 - 12/05/04 10:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that I have been misunderstood. I have not tried to justify my beliefs. I have made an attempt to pop Swami's ego bubble with my own ego pin.

LOL........... Fucknuckle has seen his mistake and goes to bed. :blush:

Oh yes....
And in case anyone is confused about our bet. It was about Dowsing. Not anything to do with God. It was a bet over a very real provable and tangible thing. That I have offered to settle in March.

But I really do not see the value in a $20,000 wager. Even though I consider myself quite the gambler and just got back from a week of Poker play.

I have the cash to make such a Bet but I think it would be far more fun to prove that dowsing does in fact work without the bet. But as I have already said Swami will not take such an offer as he is safe behind the shield of such a very large wager. I refuse to support his ego or bust it with cash.


I may change my mind. In any case I will be near Vegas in March and would be willing to set up a Challenge.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3451870 - 12/05/04 10:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If you guys need an impartial judge and are willing to split the airfare i would be more than :smile: to referee :grin:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3451876 - 12/05/04 10:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I have made an attempt to pop Swami's ego bubble with my own ego pin.

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured unto you. And why behold you the mote that is in your brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye? Or how will you say to your brother, Let me cast out the mote out of your eye; and lo, the beam is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3451907 - 12/05/04 11:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

How are you going to test the validity of dowsing, versus finding something by pure chance?


Quote:

Every controlled study of dowsers, including the "Scheunen" study, has shown that dowsers do no better than chance in finding what they are looking for.




Quote:

But are water dowsers truly more successful than can be accounted for by pure chance? Anecdotal reports of positive results can of course be found in abundance, but on the other hand, a survey by the U.S. Department of the Interior of more than 500 publications on dowsing led to the following assessment (2): "It is doubtful whether so much investigation and discussion have been bestowed on any other subject with such absolute lack of positive results. It is difficult to see how for practical purposes the entire matter could be more thoroughly discredited, and it should be obvious to everyone that further tests by the United States Geological Survey on this so-called "witching" for water, oil or other minerals would be a misuse of public funds."



http://www.phact.org/e/dowsing.htm


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3451932 - 12/05/04 11:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Nice try dude. But once again, as many people do, you have completely take "judgment" and it's intent........ WAY OUT OF CONTEXT.

I do not claim to be perfect. And with more study of the ENTIRE CHAPTER that scripture comes from. You would know that it speaks of a person who claims to be perfect and makes Judgments. And the last line of that scripture does in fact give permission to make judgments when you are in complete awareness of ones own faults. Which I am and willing to be very transparent. You are very dense and unable to be transparent.

Do not preach to the choir especially when you won't even go into the church


I have got to learn to turn my computer off when I go to bed :smile:

Edited for grammar error's.......he shuts the computer off........


Edited by Fucknuckle (12/05/04 11:19 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3452476 - 12/06/04 12:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
Nice try dude. But once again, as many people do, you have completely take "judgment" and it's intent........ WAY OUT OF CONTEXT.




Which is absolutely a judgement on his ability to understand the meaning of the Scripture he quoted. He did nothing more than quote it. You have absolutely no insight as to whether or not he "got it" in the proper context or not. As the Scripture says, "you hypocrite".  :rolleyes:


Quote:

And with more study of the ENTIRE CHAPTER that scripture comes from. You would know that it speaks of a person who claims to be perfect and makes Judgments. And the last line of that scripture does in fact give permission to make judgments when you are in complete awareness of ones own faults.




It's one thing to claim what other Scripture means in order to not have to deal with Scripture that contradicts your own behaviour, but it is another thing to directly supply said Scripture for analysis by ourselves. Why don't you stop telling us what you think this Scripture means and actually show us what the Scripture actually is, just like Swami did. We do not require you to tell us how to think.

Quote:


Which I am and willing to be very transparent. You are very dense and unable to be transparent.




This statement is in direct defiance of the intended message apparent in that isolated quote of Scripture. You make a judgement on someone with no evidence to base it on. You are about as transparent as a 2000 lb block of solid, black granite. :lol:

Quote:


Do not preach to the choir especially when you won't even go into the church




We are perfectly free to preach to whatever choir we choose, regardless of our churchgoing status. I am sorry if this lies at odds with how you personally feel we should act, but, as I have said before, the world does not revolve around you or your opinions on how others should act. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3453525 - 12/06/04 07:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Quote:
Fucknuckle said:
Nice try dude. But once again, as many people do, you have completely take "judgment" and it's intent........ WAY OUT OF CONTEXT.



Which is absolutely a judgement on his ability to understand the meaning of the Scripture he quoted. He did nothing more than quote it. You have absolutely no insight as to whether or not he "got it" in the proper context or not. As the Scripture says, "you hypocrite".





The scripture is referring to playing the roll of God and saying "you are sinning in this way" or "because you do this" (not because you DONT believe this) "you are going to hell". The bible tells us to judge spirits constantly. There is nothing wrong with judging someone's intepretation when it is SKEWED.

FN does NOT have a beam in his eye (it doesn't seem) when it comes to the meaning of that verse. Swami is only using it out of sarcasm in the first place.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3454218 - 12/06/04 01:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Hum........that is my point exactly. Swami and the few that hold his words as golden truth will not see this. With any attempt to read the entire chapter one can see, quite plainly, that is it meaning. It is not a interpretation, it is fact.


I am sure I have said many times that I am in fact at Fault and struggle with many things when it is so. Fucknuckle is wrong often and willing to say so. This is the path to true growth, transparency

But in regards to this Scripture I am very correct and your pegging of Swami's sarcasm is just as correct.

Thanks


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3454266 - 12/06/04 01:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If you are too lazy to look it up, you will also be to lazy to understand it's meaning. It is far easier for you to understand what you feel is right. That is your way of doing things. To understand what you understand.

You almost seem to refuse anything past your own understanding. That shows a sign of stunted growth. Which in my opinion is very weak and shows a certain lack of wisdom.


Do not get upset young man. You have taken much energy to say some pretty decisive things about me. Almost to the point of insult. Where I have only tried to help you get past you.

And getting past you is the key to things greater than you.

That goes for anything. Not just God


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3454861 - 12/06/04 03:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

even as a follower of Christ himself

you seem unable to 'turn the other cheek'


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: deff]
    #3454890 - 12/06/04 03:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree..


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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: lukeboots]
    #3454978 - 12/06/04 03:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree as well. :lol:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3454986 - 12/06/04 03:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

But in regards to this Scripture I am very correct and your pegging of Swami's sarcasm is just as correct.

Jesus' words are sarcastic? Perhaps they are a mirror.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455008 - 12/06/04 04:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
It is not a interpretation, it is fact.




:rolleyes: Everything is an interpretation. To think you have some clear-cut authority on truth is ignorant and egotistical. All you know is an interpretation limited by your own subjective experience.

Quote:


I am sure I have said many times that I am in fact at Fault and struggle with many things when it is so. Fucknuckle is wrong often and willing to say so. This is the path to true growth, transparency




No, it isn't. The path to true growth involves true growth, change, not simply "admitting" that you are wrong. Transparency involves never thinking you are absolutley Right in the first place. :lol:

Quote:


But in regards to this Scripture I am very correct and your pegging of Swami's sarcasm is just as correct.




Ja, I am sure you know exactly what a spiritual text that can be intrepreted in very numerous, different ways, means, as if you are some beacon of understanding and truth. I'm sorry, but I, nor anyone else here, buys that load. What happened to your path of true growth and transparency? :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: deff]
    #3455016 - 12/06/04 04:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
even as a follower of Christ himself

you seem unable to 'turn the other cheek'




AS I have said many times I am not anything close to perfect. I am responding to what people say to me. Nothing more.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3455027 - 12/06/04 04:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You just keep turning the table. Have you read the entire chapter that scripure come from ? I doubt it.

Don't worry everyone, it is not my intentions to preach to anyone.

I am just about done with all of this anyway. I have far greater things to deal with as of today.


God loves all of you even if you think it is all a joke.

Later and peace out.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleBuddahKillah
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455032 - 12/06/04 04:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
Quote:

deff said:
even as a follower of Christ himself

you seem unable to 'turn the other cheek'




AS I have said many times I am not anything close to perfect. I am responding to what people say to me. Nothing more.




That is bullshit and you know it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
    #3455045 - 12/06/04 04:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Fucknuckle

Reason for deletion: I have made a mistake



--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455052 - 12/06/04 04:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
If you are too lazy to look it up, you will also be to lazy to understand it's meaning. It is far easier for you to understand what you feel is right. That is your way of doing things. To understand what you understand.




I'm sorry, but as you are the one who made the claim in the first place, you are the one who is required to back your claim up. The burden of proof is on yourself. This is a discussion, not a claim whatever you feel like claiming as truth and then avoid all responsibility to show us how you feel you can make that claim. Perhaps you are not here to carry out the proper advancement of ideas? I think that all of this tension that results from your posting here is more due to your own lack to carry out proper idea exchange than anything else. Perhaps you will consider becoming transparent so that we can actually converse in an open and stimulating matter. :wink:

Quote:


You almost seem to refuse anything past your own understanding. That shows a sign of stunted growth. Which in my opinion is very weak and shows a certain lack of wisdom.




It might seem that way to you, but it does not seem to be that way to myself or others that either know me personally or interact with me here. While someone who refuses any new knowledge and understanding is weak and lacking of wisdom, that certainly does not describe myself. I am completely open to the flow of change and I do not hold onto any current understanding as if it were my own. My mind and its knowledge is given complete freedom in change and growth. Just because I do not openly accept your proposals does not mean I do not open myself to understanding. I don't believe anything just because. :lol:

Quote:


Do not get upset young man. You have taken much energy to say some pretty decisive things about me. Almost to the point of insult. Where I have only tried to help you get past you.




Who is getting upset? I have expended very little energy on my part to post in regards to you. If your intention is to "help me get past myself", then you certainly aren't doing a very good job, not to mention the fact that I am quite "past myself". The idea of myself does not exist on a subjective level - I'm free of form when it comes to mind and identity. :laugh: To tell me to get over myself is to bitch and moan at the moon for passively reflecting the Sun's light. :smirk: :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455054 - 12/06/04 04:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

FN: Do i have your permission to post the link to your thread in the physical and mental health forum?


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Invisiblelukeboots
fresh futuristic
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 19,728
Loc: Grand Ole Operating Syste...
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455055 - 12/06/04 04:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

No, he isn't. And you just proved quite a few people's points that were made on this last page.

If you're going to accept Christ into your life, you should probably accept all his teachings. That includes doing to others as you would yourself, turning the other cheek, and much more.

You are right. You have failed miserably.


--------------------

funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3455060 - 12/06/04 04:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The fact is I have a very serious problem to deal with right now. I am not capable of being in a state of " Fairness and acceptance and the exchange of ideas "

You are very correct in many of your observations of me this past few days.

I will not be partaking in this board any longer.

Later and peace to all :heart: :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3455061 - 12/06/04 04:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FreakQlibrium said:
FN: Do i have your permission to post the link to your thread in the physical and mental health forum?




They can find it themselves Freak it has no place here. :wink:

Later


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinedeff
mysticlove
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Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,187
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Last seen: 37 minutes, 35 seconds
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455068 - 12/06/04 04:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"AS I have said many times I am not anything close to perfect. I am responding to what people say to me. Nothing more."

Who started this thread?

:cool:


--------------------



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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
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Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455103 - 12/06/04 04:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Okay man, i shall respect your wishes, God Bles and get well soon my friend

:sun: :heart: :sun: :thumbup: :thumbup: :smile:


And for the rest of you check out FN's thread micotoxosis or whatever in the physical health forum :frown:

Later D3WD plese keep us updated as to the status of what you're going through


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455107 - 12/06/04 04:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

SWAMI YOU KEEP THINKING THAT PEOPLE DO NOT SEE YOUR INTENT. It is your intent that matters.
The only real thing we have to go on in a discussion is what one ACTUALLY says, not what a reader thinks is the message behind the words. If we all did what you are doing, no communication would be possible - ever.

In your are a a slick person and guilty of many lies and deceptions. Not much different than some criminals I have met.
This type of slander is in direct violation of the S&P rules which you have agreed to follow by the mere act of posting here.

Many people see you exactly for what you are.
*Swami checks ratings - overall pretty favorable*. No one here sees anyone else here for exactly what they are. A person's character and worth cannot be determined by from some posts.

I have failed here miserably as a Christan
That is your self-determination.

but you sir in fact, are an ass.
Not sure what this means other than you have taken offence when none was given. Like all insults, this is a statement about you and has nothing to do with me.

Matthew 15:10-11

After Jesus called the crowd to him, he said, ?Listen and understand what I am saying. It is not what people put into their mouths that makes them unclean. It is what comes out of their mouths that makes them unclean.?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455128 - 12/06/04 04:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
The fact is I have a very serious problem to deal with right now. I am not capable of being in a state of " Fairness and acceptance and the exchange of ideas "




You are letting life interfere with your direct experience of life and of Christ, then. If you have a problem that needs to be worked out, you would be more effective in doing so from a higher vantage point. Let the change flow through you and do what you have to do from a higher frame of mind. :wink:

Quote:


You are very correct in many of your observations of me this past few days.




Maybe I'm not as ignorant and stuck in my own understanding as you have sometimes suggested? :wink: :laugh:

Quote:


I will not be partaking in this board any longer.





Why abandon this board? Perhaps you are here for a reason. :wink: It sounds like you have a lot of healing that needs to be taken care of, you should stick around and work through these things instead of cutting your losses and bailing out. :wink: Leaving won't help anything.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Swami]
    #3455147 - 12/06/04 04:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

now, some people get a bit annoyed at swami, i personally have gotten angry at him a few times, but i hope that was for clear and concrete reasons, where i disagreed with his debate tactic or his conversational etiquette.

But i gotta say fucknuckle, your flaming at swami has crossed the line from a real and concrete disagreement into some kind of paranoid transferance thing.

its all like

"dont think i dont see what your doing"

"this is a thinly vieled attack on me!"

"your waging a constant war against my faith!"

etc etc

this kind of speach is often heard in paranoid delusionals...

swami is not the problem here man.

he is in fact a human being, sharing his beliefs on an open forum, just like the rest of us.

He was here before we got here and he may well be here when were gone.

accept him.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 5 days, 8 hours
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3455185 - 12/06/04 04:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ahahahahhaahahahahahhaahahahahfafadofhasofafahahaklf

I have never had so much fun. This whole thread has been like an incredible soap opera. What a great ending! Though I admit I kind of saw it coming... none the less, good show everybody!  :grin:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: To Swami and his followers [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3455195 - 12/06/04 04:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Note to all: I received (and accepted) a PMed apology from FK. I asked him not to leave the forum. When one is physically or emotionally sick or out-of-balance is when we need friends and support the most of all.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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