Home | Community | Message Board


RVF Garden Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Question for Christians
    #3444613 - 12/04/04 05:36 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I realize that lately there's been a lot of topics relating to Christianity, so forgive me for starting a new one(since forgiveness is supposed to be what you're good at). Let's imagine for a moment that there is a God, and that Jesus was his only begotten son, but there is no afterlife. All the rest of your religion is correct, except that we become nothing when we die, and you know this for a fact. Believers and non-believers alike all meet the same fate. Would you still practice Christianity? Would you have any incentive to continue going to church every Sunday, pray regularly, preach the Word to others, or worship God? Now I realize some of you will talk about God answering your prayers, or helping you with your life, or having a special relationship with you, so let's eliminate that too. Suppose God treats everyone equally, and does not dispense special favors to those that believe in Him. Would you still worship almighty God if there were no personal gain in it for you? Is God worthy of worship only if he does things for us in return? Do you love God for what he is or what he does for you? Be honest with yourself.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesos
overrated
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 410
Loc: Puget Sound Vicinity
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Question for Christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #3444617 - 12/04/04 05:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If the only reason i was a christian was to go to heaven when i die. I would pull a dying on the death bed regret for all my sins. Christianity in its purest form is love, exctasy can only hope to be.


--------------------
god made pot who do you trust, yeh i stole that off a lighter, so what, you wanna fight about it?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: Question for Christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #3444938 - 12/04/04 08:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You ask some GR8 questrions SS :smile:

Speaking only for myself, i would. Even B4 i let God into my life i wasn't really breaking any(not very often at least lol!)of the 10 commandments nor did i have any wish to. I guess perhaps my worst offence was taking the name of the Lord Thy(my) God in vain and i will shamefully confess to being extemely creative in my amalgamations of His Holy name in conjunction with various corporeal activities when ever i would get mad or feel somehing wasn't going MY way.

But that's all changed and truthfully I feel more at peace withing myself right now than at any other point of my life even though my life circumstances right now are pretty bad i can still navigate the treacherous waters happily :smile:

I wouldn't exchange this for anything even if i KNEW there was no afterlife, what i have discovered is that all my bad feelings, thoughts etc of the past were created as a result of my own spiritual friction with God, basically going my own way and doing and living the way I wanted to and not in accordance with God's will. I suppose i could even make an equation of this: The more I do God's will the happier i am in direct ratio(btw: i suck at math so if that doesn't get my point accross using that analogy it is only due to my own lack of mathematical skill and doesn't invalidate what i was TRYING to say lol!)

^^^ lol! i thought that was kinda neat the way those words lined up :grin:


Worshiping God and living by HIS rules and not by your own(i didn't mean YOU specifically, just generally) is it's own reward SS, with or without an afterlife :wink:

:sun: :heart: :sun: :thumbup: :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeff
lovelightbliss
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 8,413
Loc: all this
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Question for Christians [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3445229 - 12/04/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That's like, if one does not believe in morality or dogmas, or incentives for "good" behaviour by consensual means - what is there to encourage the "good" behaviour?

(I realize the contradiction of not believing in morality than relating to 'good' behaviour, but I mean in an externally perceived 'good' manner - applied by someone prescribing to morality)

The answer for me is, that there is very little incentive not to. There is no reason to be explicitly 'bad' (to have intent of causing suffering) nor explicitly 'good'. And so, the middle path is of a selfless nature, wherein the person cares not about rewards, but sort of has no choice but to act according to their own subjective interpretation of 'responsible behaviour' and 'good nature'.

They realize the hypocricy of holding conflicting values to their actions. They strive towards self consistancy and honesty above all else, and truly wants to "be the change they want to see in the world".

while this isn't directly related to worshipping God, if a person like this did believe in a worshippable God, then surely they would need no reward to continue acting in accordance to their personal beliefs.

But I agree with what I perceived the intent of this post was. Many people appear to need some sort of reward system, mainly stemming from the fact that religions and spirituality are viewed by many as 'clubs' or 'past-times', rather than all inclusive worldviews.

Plus, it sells seats at the church, especially for the soon-to-die elderly :cool:


--------------------



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: Question for Christians [Re: deff]
    #3445522 - 12/04/04 01:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

They realize the hypocricy of holding conflicting values to their actions. They strive towards self consistancy and honesty above all else, and truly wants to "be the change they want to see in the world".

while this isn't directly related to worshipping God, if a person like this did believe in a worshippable God, then surely they would need no reward to continue acting in accordance to their personal beliefs.



That petty much sums it up for me Deff, what's the point in only being good for some sort of eternal pie in the sky so to speak, although i do myself admit to believing in that pie in the Sky i just as much believe in right living just because it feels right to me, if there IS an actual reward for doing so that's just icing on the cake


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Question for Christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #3445587 - 12/04/04 02:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I like your questions. I have a answer for you.

The life of a caring and giving person is far better than the life of a self fulfilling life. Full of selfish satisfaction. The rewards of self fulfillment stop with self.

The rewards of putting others first as often as possible, is far greater than putting yourself first. When you learn the real facts of leadership through real Love, then success just comes to you. In fact, it flows to you like a river. People know what is good and bad. It is our nature to have a freewill. So even if God had never shown himself to me. Yes I would still worship his values. It is the values of the bible that are important to me. Whether or not I buy into the fact I am delusional or not makes no difference. The fact that living a life under biblical principals is the goal.


When a person make the constant choice to live as close as he or she can to what Jesus and the bible teaches than life is one big Joy ride full of rewards and much success.

I have seen many people come from the dumpster of life and become far more than successful thru the teachings of the bible.


Simply put it goes like this.



If the people who believe that rejection of God is reality and they are right then they have little to gain through there own understandings in this short life. But if they are wrong then they have everything to lose.

But if the people that believe that God is reality then they everything to gain and if they are wrong by living Godly principals and God does not exist then they still have much to gain.


Living for God, if he is not real, gives you at least of 50% chance of being right when you die. If god is real, then you have a 100% chance of going to him when you die.


If you reject god you have a 100% chance of not being with him when you die if he is real.

So in the wisdom of being human, knowing the difference between Good and Bad, living for God just makes much more sense. And I can tell you that life without Godly principals is far less satisfying. I have lived both and still struggle. I am only human and fail everyday.

People all want to be Loved and to give love. That can not be denied.

So in my mind and heart living for God and biblical principals is the better choice. Besides once a person really makes that choice then God makes himself known to you and all doubt leaves. God is good that way. By yourself you can not understand God unless you go to him and ask him to give you the wisdom to know the difference.


Living life with only your own feeble mind and the fact that it can take and entire lifetime to learn wisdom. Makes no sense to me.

Living and study God and his principals brings such great wisdom and knowledge it only make the choice easy. God and his mind are far greater then my own. I welcome God into my heart to show me his ways. :thumbup: :heart:



I also want to say that I am struggle everyday with my earthly desires and anyone could say I am a hypocrite. I am and I fall on God to show me the ways to correction. I make mistake's everyday.


Edited by Fucknuckle (12/04/04 02:10 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3445607 - 12/04/04 02:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Besides once a person really makes that choice then God makes himself known to you and all doubt leaves. God is good that way. By yourself you can not understand God unless you go to him and ask him to give you the wisdom to know the difference.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMcKennaFan200
AmateurGairologist

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 5,395
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Question for Christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #3445687 - 12/04/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I realize that lately there's been a lot of topics relating to Christianity, so forgive me for starting a new one(since forgiveness is supposed to be what you're good at).  Let's imagine for a moment that there is a God, and that Jesus was his only begotten son, but there is no afterlife.  All the rest of your religion is correct, except that we become nothing when we die, and you know this for a fact.  Believers and non-believers alike all meet the same fate.  Would you still practice Christianity?  Would you have any incentive to continue going to church every Sunday, pray regularly, preach the Word to others, or worship God?  Now I realize some of you will talk about God answering your prayers, or helping you with your life, or having a special relationship with you, so let's eliminate that too.  Suppose God treats everyone equally, and does not dispense special favors to those that believe in Him.  Would you still worship almighty God if there were no personal gain in it for you?  Is God worthy of worship only if he does things for us in return?  Do you love God for what he is or what he does for you?  Be honest with yourself.





If we all met the same fate in the end times, I would still love, praise, and worship God.  He guides me in this life.  Personally, I don't go to church (I don't need an establishment to verify my faith), and I don't preach the word of God simply because people don't want to hear it for the most part.  Which is fine, you choose your own path, happy trails.  I will always love and worship God because He created all things.  Even if he never answered anyone's prayers, trivial to think about really, I would love and thank Him for all I have.  I hope this answers your questions, but if it doesn't (it rarely does with you  :smile: ), let me know.  Huzzah.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeff
lovelightbliss
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 8,413
Loc: all this
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Question for Christians [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3445702 - 12/04/04 02:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

there are _no_ rewards for selfless behaviour.


--------------------



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: Question for Christians [Re: deff]
    #3445754 - 12/04/04 02:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am rapidly finding out that selfless behavior is it's own reward :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Question for Christians [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3445807 - 12/04/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FreakQlibrium said:
I am rapidly finding out that selfless behavior is it's own reward :smile:




I will give you a short example of a worldy reward from living  such a life.


I was on my way to donate a very nice car to a family with no car. While in the process of this I meet this guy who needed a trailer welded. So after finishing up the car deal me and this guy left to go to his house. Once there I see he is a very wealthy man, a millionaire. When I asked him what he did for a living. It turned out that he was the number one buyer of outsourced parts for FORD MOTOR CAR company  :shocked:

So I follow God direction and start talking business with him. Long story short my selfless action of giving a car away lead me to developing a very large Manufacturing firm and fab shop. Which I owned for 9 years. I just sold it last month for a very large sum of cash.

While a person who does not believe in God would say it was fate or LUCK. I was sensitive to Gods voice and I followed his direction. That one meeting with that guy lead to many rewards. Not only did it effect my life directly but my shop help many people. My shop did have many troubles and trials and I tried my best to follow God despite the fact I still struggle with getting stoned :grin:

Anyway a Selfless life has many more rewards than a life of Self gratification. When living for other first you get what you want :thumbup:


I could give MANY examples but then I would just be preaching :rolleyes: :heart: :thumbup:

You keep at it Freak :wink:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3445829 - 12/04/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Man that is God in action! I'm very happy for you :smile: You should really consider writing or having someone else write a book about your life as I'm sure it would inspire many. I know you weren't exactly privelaged during your younger years and the fact that you have come so far simply by living and acting on a few Godly principles sets a mighty fine example both for Christians and non Christians alike 



:sun: :heart: :sun: :thumbup: :thumbup: :smile:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Question for Christians [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3445926 - 12/04/04 03:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Funny you should say that because during all the time I had spent as a Leader in church and in the Homeless shelter many have suggested such a thing.....................Sometimes God can speak to me through the voice of others.

He starts thinking of a new project......................

Only many know of my Drug habits and my thoughts on how God views drugs. So there will be some in the Christian community who will try to shoot me down.

Drugs are not a sin you know. It is the path that drugs can take yo down that can become a Sin. And the fact that using drugs is a Selfish act. But it maybe that God is teaching me something new. ER...........still confused and this may be my last barrier to the greatest things God has planned for me.

I wish I had a doobie to think it over.......... LOL

NO really, I have not smoked it almost 3 weeks. Maybe I am finally done. I have stopped for much longer periods but because I was forced to not because I wanted to. Big difference this time. Feels different anyway.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRebirtha
I really like bread
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
Loc: over there
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3445949 - 12/04/04 03:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

well, if god plans everything out for you, and and it was his will in the first place why not just not incorperate God into you life? Wouldn't it be exactly the same if he's gonna do what he wants anyway?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Rebirtha]
    #3445989 - 12/04/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That is a very huge misconception that many Christians get very wrong.

God does not know what your life is going to lead to. Your choices are your choices.God know you hearts intentions, God only knows what his plan for you is if you follow him 100%. The minute you walk away from that path you are on a different path.

God has a plan yes and he fully is aware of what you can become and what you can do if you follow his lead. The wisdom that God can give a Man is a gift. As with any gift you must reach out and take it.


Kinda like this................

God has a Map of perfection for you to follow. But you must be willing to reach out and take the map. Then you must be willing to do what it takes to be able to read it. Then yo must do what it takes to follow it. Through all hills and crossroads.


I have a clue as to what God's plan is for me but I continue to drop God's map and take my own roads. To get back to Gods map I need God to steer me back to the right road.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada Flag
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3446129 - 12/04/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well for NOW God has permitted me to have a few beer in the evening as he knows what kind of stuff i am going through(My new relationship to God through Jesus Christ is making it a LOT easier to deal with though) but i definitely have a feeling there will come a day where he tells me to stop and i will dutifully obey :smile:

I even worked up the nerve to ask him if it was HE and not the other guy that brought electronic dance music(via 40 ounce and Robert Miles) into my life, and God said(he's cool with my telling you this, i asked him: ormally, EDM wouldn't be my first choice of music for one of my children to listen to....BUT in so much as I Know the somewhat less than Christian themes contained in the lyrics provoke no lusts or impure thoughts within your heart and knowing as I do your inordinatly high NRG level i thought you needed a music who's NRG level couldkeep pace with you" Now that was paraphrased but contained the essence of God's answer to me so as with drugs, no form of music is inately "bad" it's where it leads you  :heart:


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Question for Christians [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #3446167 - 12/04/04 05:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Listen to me Freak this is very important.

As you become closer to God the things around you just start to gravitate towards God.

The choice to stop doing one thing or another will be known to you through a closeness with God. God will let you know. There are no stupid ass sudden changes that "YOU MUST DO YOU SINNER"

That is a joke.

It is true that when we take Jesus into our hearts we have made a promise to God that we will live for him that he may live through us. So that we make enjoy his fruits in our life.

But we are human and we suffer from our selfish human needs. It is not going to be a over night change. You, everyday in private prayer discuss these things with God and with his grace and wisdom somethings just kinds float away from you and other things float to you


There is no instant set of things a person must give up. The closer you get to God the less somethings become important to you.


When God develops in you nothing feels " Giving UP "


It feels like you just don't need it anymore and is easy.


Beer and such things are fine until you yourself with God's wisdom in you decided other wise.


Jesus said this " All things are good in moderation and as long as they do not take you from God "




Someone here is going to say That killing a few people in moderation is OK...................LOL That is another thread. LOL


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3446255 - 12/04/04 05:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I was sensitive to Gods voice and I followed his direction.

Sort of like Bush and Bin Laden.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Swami]
    #3446405 - 12/04/04 06:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I do not know what they have going on with God. I will not even make the attempt. I only know what I and God have going on.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Question for Christians [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3446599 - 12/04/04 07:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Do you agree or disagree that some people are likely to falsely believe that they are guided by God?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Behavior Rewards NastyDHL 958 13 02/13/09 03:01 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Very interesting Question...... *DELETED*
( 1 2 all )
Room4Shroom 2,034 23 02/24/03 06:35 PM
by Zero7a1
* when did you first question...
( 1 2 all )
automanM 1,731 28 10/03/03 01:39 PM
by PDU
* christianity
( 1 2 3 4 ... 10 11 all )
mckenna89 5,920 210 05/07/09 03:19 AM
by Mr. Mushrooms
* Satan worship & Human Sacrifice
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 3,328 35 02/08/02 01:07 PM
by insectvhore
* Say something positive about Christians
( 1 2 3 all )
silversoul7 3,419 43 09/06/04 02:57 PM
by ska8ball
* Question about Christians here
( 1 2 3 all )
rba 2,506 40 09/07/08 12:56 AM
by blewmeanie
* Re: God, Christ and the Christian religion Raoul Duke 1,244 15 06/26/09 01:43 PM
by OrgoneConclusion

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,217 topic views. 3 members, 6 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.066 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 21 queries.