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InvisibleGabbaDj
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fallacy of democracy
    #3440448 - 12/03/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

People love to feel involved, they love to be part of the "in" crowd, they love to think that they make a difference..

But how much control do we really have? We really only get to chose from between two people, both are usually questionable at best...

Sure their are others running but because they dont have enough money to advertise themselves we dont get to know shit about them..

In a democracy the little guy is kept down and the powerful is made stronger day by day.

Soo I ask.. Since we really only have two options.. Is this democracy?


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3440462 - 12/03/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3440480 - 12/03/04 01:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think that's about the first thing I've read by you that I can sincerly say I agree with


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Offlineoggleman
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3440635 - 12/03/04 02:16 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well, no we're not a democracy. Greece was a democracy, then Rome fucked the idea up with something called "representative democracy".


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: oggleman]
    #3441125 - 12/03/04 08:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Rome *improved* the idea.

Madison and others improved it more with the idea of a Constitutional Republic. Don't fool yourself into thinking tyranny of the majority is not a threat.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: Tao]
    #3441127 - 12/03/04 08:49 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

not to mention, greece only had rich, educated, white men voting. we have a more democratic government than that.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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InvisibleCJay
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Registered: 02/02/04
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: Tao]
    #3441256 - 12/03/04 09:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

In a true democracy only the head of the household gets a vote.

Nowadays it's only people who agree with team grey or team grey 2 who get a vote.

Tyranny of the majority is the best threat we have against the options of grey or grey - we only have ourselves.

For the 2 grey teams have reversed the principle, creating a mono culture with no true room for any minority culture. All history will be wiped out and replaced with their imposed and brainwashed majority tyranny.

The true majority, the majority that thrives in difference and understanding, but does not know itself because it is imprisioned by team grey's fear tactics into team grey's desired brainwash; that majority may tip this applecart.

Perhaps we can then stop defining ourselves and be as we know we really are.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3443454 - 12/03/04 08:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I suppose you can see that as the "dirty little secret" of democracy, although i dont think its really a secret. Many people think democracy means that they always get thier way, but thats obviously not the case. Actually im completely baffled how someone can think that its only a democracy if they get thier own way, but that seems to be the feeling amongst a lot of people...weird.


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Offlinerezzan1
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: Catalysis]
    #3443504 - 12/03/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Our gov. is more of a capitlist society then anything else. For the people who have the most money can influence the laws. Also the more money you have the more free you are. So if you have the ambition to be free than maybe if you work hard or play your cards right you can be free in this so called democracy.

This is defiantly not a democracy IMHO. But if I was so humble than I would not have posted my opionion at all.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: rezzan1]
    #3443573 - 12/03/04 09:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thats a great point, i totally agree. There is really no perfect system of government due to obvious reasons. I guess its pretty much a matter of which system you think will be best. Personally, I like the idea of capitalism even though im poor because I always like to have that opportunity there. However, a more socialist policy has some advantages also...like i wouldn't have to work so hard. :p


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Offlinerezzan1
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: Catalysis]
    #3443619 - 12/03/04 09:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I have been debating which system I perfer a lot lately. Money's not hard to make and all but I do not like the oppression going down on lower social classes, for example keeping certain groups as victims instead of impowering them. Kind of frusterated and all with that type of shit going down. I have a few friends interested in utopiosim or something(spelling). But IMO people r people and it would take quite a few wise people to create a functioning society. IS IT possible.

Catalysis
Can you elaborate on a socialist society for me?


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: rezzan1]
    #3443680 - 12/03/04 10:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well in a socialist leaning society, you would be more guaranteed to receive things like financial aid and free health care if you are not very well off, BUT this comes at a cost of not rewarding the hard workers of the society. However, when you start rewarding the hard workers and becoming more capitalist, then the rich can exploit the system more lol. A good society really needs a balance in my opinion. There is no such thing as utopianism though because there will always be people taking more than they contribute.



An interesting thing that I have been debating lately with people is...Have you noticed that a lot of the wealthiest cities and states in the US are liberal leaning while the poorer, rural midwest is mostly conservative?

Liberals say that it is just because midwesterners are stupid christians but i think its much more involved than that. You have to understand that the working poor work very hard for their money in the hopes that someday they can invest and take part in the capitalist society, maybe even providing a nest egg for future generations.

Sure, social programs such as welfare are good and necessary in our society but it comes to the point where the government starts to actually take burdens off of the rich with these programs. For instance, you could understand wealthy business owners voting liberal because they would love to see a universal health care program which completely absolves them of any responsibility in providing worker health care. You also have programs like social security which would land any business owner in the private sector in jail if he ever tried to run a similar program.

To try to get back on topic, I think the democratic system in the US actually does a very good job balancing out this equation, despite all of the short comings. The only problem is that the minority ALWAYS thinks it is getting screwed over...and they probably are, but that's why they are the minority and life isn't always fair. Basically, majority rule sucks sometimes but i think minority rule would be worse.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: Catalysis]
    #3443767 - 12/03/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

well put catalysis.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinerezzan1
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3444048 - 12/04/04 12:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Right on, so would Canada be more of a socialist society?

I have a ton of questions but you guys r right, back on the on topic


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OfflineGlacius
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Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: GabbaDj]
    #3445589 - 12/04/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well at least we get the right to choose which dumbfuck gets to run the county.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: fallacy of democracy [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3446022 - 12/04/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usefulidiot said:
I think that's about the first thing I've read by you that I can sincerly say I agree with




You know a few of my posts seem ignorant but I am fully aware of the faults of my Government. I also want some serious change.

I sometimes can be drawn into my own false ignorance based on a short term feeling. If you follow my drift :thumbup:


One of my many faults :grin:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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