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OfflinePhred
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I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one
    #3438674 - 12/02/04 04:50 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Swiss TV has video of French Army helicopters firing without warning on an Ivory Coast demonstration, on November 6, 2004.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=13791_French_Helicopters_Fire_on_Ivory_Coast_Civilians

pinky


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 19 years, 30 days
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3438690 - 12/02/04 04:53 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Damn lefties.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3441355 - 12/03/04 08:41 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

the BBC has just mentioned for the first time something about the u.n. scandal. (they are doing an investigation) so there is hope. maybe in a few years the media will jump on this one.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleCJay
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3441416 - 12/03/04 09:05 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like the 'developed' nations of the world alright.
All the same.
Sounds like governments the world over - all as bad as each other.

Burn the witch! Burn the witches!

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3441449 - 12/03/04 09:19 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Do you believe this to be true because its on some website? Tsk..pinky I thought u were more critical than that.


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Always Smi2le

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Posts: 32,665
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: GazzBut]
    #3441480 - 12/03/04 09:34 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

anything to back up the left-wing media conspiracy crock.

I mean....some blog site and an unintelligible video shot
in bad light.

THE CONSPIRACY MUST BE TROOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: GazzBut]
    #3441716 - 12/03/04 10:38 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The video is from a Swiss TV station. I was unable to post the direct link because I can't cut and paste it -- it stays in my browser window for maybe a tenth of a second before it starts downloading instead. That's why I linked to the blog rather than directly.

You are of course aware there have been multiple reports from several international media sources of French troops (not helicopter gunships but infantry armed with rifles) firing into crowds of unarmed civilians with no warning as well, aren't you?

You're not? I wonder why that might be.

Here are some links to look at. You can tell me whether or not these links meet your criterion of credibility.

From http://www.adetocqueville.com/200411282252.iasmqbi27779.htm --

Meanwhile in Ivory Coast?s main city Abidjan, Ivorian police chief Colonel Georges Guiai Bi Poin gave a damning account of clashes that reportedly pitted French forces against protesters at a rally on November 9.

Guiai Bi Poin said he was in charge of about 60 gendarmes outside Abidjan?s Hotel Ivoire to prevent demonstrators from storming the building.

He told AFP: ?French troops fired directly into the crowd. They opened fire on the orders of their chief Colonel D?Estremon. Without warning.?

Guiai Bi Poin he said he was at the French colonel?s side in the hotel lobby throughout the night.

Ivorian authorities said a total of 57 civilians were killed and more than 2,200 injured between November 6 and 10, including an unconfirmed number by French troops ? but there is no specific toll for the Hotel Ivoire protest.

Followers of President Laurent Gbagbo accused French soldiers, including snipers hidden in the hotel, of firing on ?Young Patriot? loyalists.

Until now, Alliot-Marie has insisted the victims were killed in clashes between Young Patriots and Ivorian police. The French military says only that warning shot were fired in the air.

But Alliot-Marie told RTL radio Sunday, without specifically referring to the Hotel Ivoire incident, that some casualties may have been caused by French troops during the demonstrations.

?They were forced to shoot,? she said. ?They carried out warning shots and, in a few cases, were forced to make full use of their firearms. There was no way of avoiding it.?

?There were doubtless a few victims; we don?t know for certain because when things take place by night it is very difficult to know what is going on.?

She said there were ?also a great number of victims inside the crowds, killed by the crush and also from a number of stray bullets,? and insisted French troops had shown admirable ?self-control and restraint? in ?abominable circumstances, faced with a crowd armed with Kalachnikov rifles and guns.?

Guiai Bi Poin said the crowd at the Hotel Ivoire was yelling insults but was unarmed.

?Not one of my men fired a shot,? he said. ?There were no shots from the crowd. None of the demonstrators was armed ? not even with sticks, or knives or rocks.?

He said that when he reported to the French commander on the day of the riot, he was told: ?Colonel, my barbed wire has been crossed, and the crowd is getting excited. If they do not let us leave within 20 minutes, I am going to shoot.?

?Suddenly,? said Guiai Bi Poin, ?there was a movement on our left and my gendarmes were pushed violently by the crowd. They fell back a meter or two. D?Estremon then said to me, ?Colonel, the red line has been crossed. I am going to open fire. FIRE!??

The officer said the French troops began shooting. ?It was not a haphazard fusillade. It was carried out on the orders of their chief. And there was no warning.?

Guiai Bi Poin said he yelled at the French officer to fire in the air, to aim higher, ?He did this but some of his men did not obey and some continued to fire on the crowd. I saw lots of people falling, but I do not know how many victims there were.?

From a Reuters report http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L29703422.htm

PARIS, Nov 29 (Reuters) - French soldiers opened fire on crowds of angry youths during days of mob violence and looting in Ivory Coast earlier this month, French Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said.

French forces had previously said they fired warning shots during the unrest, but Alliot-Marie told France?s RTL television on Sunday night the troops had most probably ?made full use of their weapons? in some cases.

The mob violence erupted after government forces killed nine French soldiers and an American aid worker in a bombing raid on the rebel-held north, prompting the former colonial power to destroy most of Ivory Coast?s small air force in retaliation.

The Ivorian government has repeatedly accused French forces of firing on crowds of unarmed demonstrators, particularly at the Hotel Ivoire in the main city, Abidjan. Paris has insisted the protesters were often armed with guns and machetes.

Alliot-Marie said the French troops sometimes had no choice but to open fire, particularly when they were returning from other parts of the country to protect French and other foreign nationals from attack in Abidjan.

?When they tried to stop our armoured vehicles from getting to Abidjan, to stop them from protecting our citizens and other foreigners who were victims of the violence, they had to fire,? she said.

?Naturally, they fired warning shots and in some cases, most probably, they had to make full use of their firearms. That is the reality. There was nothing else that could be done.?

From the Los Angeles Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-ivory10nov10,1,2466600.story?coll=la-headlines-world

"French soldiers opened fire on a crowd of pro-government demonstrators near the residence of Ivory Coast President Laurent Gbagbo, killing five people, witnesses said.

"The bloodshed by peacekeepers stationed at the nearby Hotel Ivoire in Abidjan seemed likely to fuel more anti-French sentiment in the cocoa-producing West African nation."

From The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4605511,00.html --

"ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast (AP) - Security forces opened fire Tuesday as thousands of angry government loyalists massed outside a French evacuation post for foreigners, reportedly killing seven people and wounding 200 in violence pitting France against its former prize colony.

France's military denied responsibility, saying it was loyalist demonstrators who opened fire as a French convoy left the post, and Ivorian security forces who returned fire."

In this MPEG video http://radioci.embaci.com/englishdownload/frenchsoldiersshootingcivilians2.mpg -- you can see French troops firing indiscriminately on unarmed Ivory Coast civilians.



I thought Ivory Coast was an independent nation. Maybe I was wrong about that and they are still a French colony.

Do any of the readers of this thread who routinely condemn the coalition in Iraq for being there without USNC approval recall the French getting UN Security Council permission to have armed forces there, much less armed forces that are "at war"?


pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3441855 - 12/03/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You're not? I wonder why that might be.

Care to tell us your latest conspiracy theory? Is it because the american media love the French?  :rolleyes:

Do any of the readers of this thread who routinely condemn the coalition in Iraq for being there

I think you're confusing things. They are condemned for launching an illegal invasion of another sovereign state in defiance of the UN and installing their own puppet.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Xlea321]
    #3441981 - 12/03/04 11:37 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

> Is it because the american media love the French?

Ah yes, the American media:

http://www.guardian.co.uk <--- United Kingdom
http://radioci.embaci.com <--- France

> and installing their own puppet.

I think you are confusing things. There is no American puppet government in the middle east, especially in Iraq.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Seuss]
    #3442036 - 12/03/04 11:48 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Ah yes, the American media:

Yes, those are UK and French sources. Obviously they have reported the story so I presume pinky is referring to the US media? Otherwise the title of his thread is nonsensical.

There is no American puppet government in the middle east, especially in Iraq.

So who is propping up Allawi right now?

The most amusing puppetry was when the Iraqis said "We will be releasing female prisoners" after Bigley was kidnapped. The americans said "No you won't" and the Iraqi "government" then said "We will not be releasing female prisoners".


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3442430 - 12/03/04 02:01 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

if this barely documented video is true, then fuck that.

...but sometimes tells me that if it were American troops, you'd
say something like "well this is what happens with stupid demonstrators get unruly."

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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Vvellum]
    #3443139 - 12/03/04 05:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3443144 - 12/03/04 05:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Vvellum]
    #3443685 - 12/03/04 08:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

There are at least two videos -- one showing the helicopter attack, the other showing the troops firing into the crowd. There are also the print reports from such diverse sources as AP, Reuters, and AFP.

What I find interesting is contrasting the outrage over a soldier shooting an Iraqi combatant who was purportedly playing dead vs the lack of outrage over French troops and helicopters firing at unarmed demonstrators. The only reason I can determine for the difference is that one involved a US soldier and the other involved French soldiers.


pinky


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InvisibleGijith
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Loc: New York
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3443958 - 12/03/04 09:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Checked Google to see who's running this so far::

ABC (australian)
BBC
CTV
CBC
Associated Press
MSNBC


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

Edited by Gijith (12/04/04 01:43 AM)

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Seuss]
    #3444466 - 12/04/04 01:31 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I think you are confusing things. There is no American puppet government in the middle east, especially in Iraq.




Thats a good one! tell me another...


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Always Smi2le

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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444467 - 12/04/04 01:31 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What I find interesting is contrasting the outrage over a soldier shooting an Iraqi combatant who was purportedly playing dead vs the lack of outrage over French troops and helicopters firing at unarmed demonstrators. The only reason I can determine for the difference is that one involved a US soldier and the other involved French soldiers.





OK then...

I'm pretty sure no one here is in favour of the French murdering the innocent. What do you think?

Anyways, in a thread about the American murdering the downed Iraqi fighter, a lot of posters were in favour of it.

Do you find that interesting?


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444484 - 12/04/04 01:42 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Is it just me...or is shooted NOT a word?

They used it twice in that link of yours...

Quote:

It?s a REALMEDIA video (23 seconds only). It?s from a Swiss TV (TSR.CH) news show from 30.11.2004.

You learn that the 6 .11.2004 french army helicopters shooted WITHOUT ?warnings shots? on the crowd made of hundreds people.

??????

Here is a translation:

(speaking about 9.11.2004, Ivoiry hotel ?massacre? )

?....However it?s wasn?t the first time French Army shooted without ?warning shots? (shot in the air).

We are on November 6, three days before the shooting of the hotel ivory.

the demonstrators (manifestors) move towards the French military base. French helicopters shoot directly at the demonstrators.

There would have been sixty died at the time of these various operations.

Tonight, the French Army admits ?a score? of about 20 deaths.

??????

This Swiss TV investigation is made by the same person who forced french army to acknoledge the ?9 november ivoiry hotel massacre". (It?s based on differents witnesses, and some French TV Canal+ images)




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need that cash to feed them jones.

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444594 - 12/04/04 03:03 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

What I find interesting is contrasting the outrage over a soldier shooting an Iraqi combatant who was purportedly playing dead

As usual you appear to have twisted the truth into a lie to suit your prejudices. He wasn't "purportedly playing dead". He was laying on the floor seriously wounded, helpless and unarmed.

Incidentally - you quote the Guardian reporting the story. A newspaper you probably consider the most left-wing and biased of all "left-wing rags". Doesn't this tend to demolish your theory that the "left-wing" media won't report the story?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444650 - 12/04/04 04:45 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The only reason I can determine for the difference is that one involved a US soldier and the other involved French soldiers.

It is also interesting that this appears to be the only reason why you raise threads when France kills a handful of civilians yet remain strangely silent while the US butchers thousands upon thousands in Iraq.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Xlea321]
    #3444661 - 12/04/04 04:53 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Is this video really not being shown all over the American media??
I was kinda predicting that US media would actually jump all over this affair...even FOX isn't showing it? Gosh, Bush is doing a bad job at favoring anti-french opinions :wink:

First of all, let me say that these videos are authentic, french helicopters did shoot on people that were manifesting in the streets, and the damages were very bad.

Our secreatry of defense Alliot-Marie, (otherwise known as Secretary of the United States...hehe) says that the people in the streets had guns and shot first. She says that action had to be taken against these violent riots.

But many reports say that the manifestations were peaceful, and nobody had any weapon on them. I find that kinda strange since there had been 3 days of violent anti-french demonstrations prior to this.

But it wouldn't surprise me if Alliot-Marie is just stoping the truth from spreading, which would be that french military did a bloody mistake by taking action against these people..you know, "french pride". I really don't know what the hell happened. All I know is that Ivorians succeeded in kicking the french out of their country, or at least the french that were residing there, not the military.


Apparently though, french politicians aren't as smart as the American ones because they didn't try to stop news reporters come in to the country to report on what's going on there, as opposed to Americans that don't want people to see what's going on in Irak in places like Falludjah.

Anyways, all this is the work of the twisted fucks called diplomats


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3444673 - 12/04/04 05:00 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

was kinda predicting that US media would actually jump all over this affair...even FOX isn't showing it?

Yep, even FOX are pro-French :smirk:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Xlea321]
    #3444678 - 12/04/04 05:02 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

It is also interesting that this appears to be the only reason why you raise threads when France kills a handful of civilians yet remain strangely silent while the US butchers thousands upon thousands in Iraq.

Is there a lack of threads in this forum condemning the deposing of Iraq's Ba'athist regime by force? Last time I checked there were only several thousand of them. Why do you need one initiated by me to make you happy? Are the others of no worth?

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444710 - 12/04/04 05:09 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Is there a lack of threads in this forum condemning the deposing of Iraq's Ba'athist regime by force?

That's not actually what we're talking about. We're talking the killing of civilians. I merely said it was interesting that you raise threads on France killing a handful of civilians while staying silent on the wholesale slaughter of far greater numbers of civilians by the US.

And I've never actually heard you condemn the US for killing civilians. Did I miss that?

Why do you need one initiated by me to make you happy?

It would certainly begin to give you a fraction more credibility.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Xlea321]
    #3444717 - 12/04/04 05:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

As usual you appear to have twisted the truth into a lie to suit your prejudices. He wasn't "purportedly playing dead".

I suggest you check the dictionary for the definition of "purported".

Incidentally - you quote the Guardian reporting the story. A newspaper you probably consider the most left-wing and biased of all "left-wing rags". Doesn't this tend to demolish your theory that the "left-wing" media won't report the story?

As my search and Gijith's searches illustrate, there have been a handful of reports in the mainstream media about this and virtually no followup reports. Contrast this with the days of coverage and hundreds (if not thousands) of articles re the finishing off of the Iraqi combatant.

Perhaps the reason for the excessive coverage of the incident in Iraq is that it was so outside the norm for American troops to behave like that and therefore very big news. Perhaps no one is surprised to hear of French troops massacring their unarmed ex-colonial subjects and therefore it is less newsworthy.

Or maybe my first hypothesis is more accurate -- no one cares because this time it isn't US troops misbehaving, but French troops.

Whatever the reason, there is no denying the level of media attention is vastly less for the incidents in Africa -- almost non-existent in the American media and barely better than non-existent elsewhere.


pinky


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444734 - 12/04/04 05:17 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

As usual pinky, you are spot on.


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Xlea321]
    #3444741 - 12/04/04 05:18 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

That's not actually what we're talking about. We're talking the killing of civilians.

No, we're talking about the deliberate targeting of civilians. Did some civilians in Iraq die when bombs exploded nearby? Certainly. Have coalition forces deliberately opened fire on groups of civilian Iraqis -- either with handheld arms or with helicopter gunships? Nope.

And I've never actually heard you condemn the US for killing civilians.

When you can point me to a credible source showing deliberate targeting of Iraqi civilians by coalition forces in Iraq, you may have a valid reason to beef.

Have Iraqi non-combatants been killed by weaponry in Iraq since March 19, 2003? Of course. Do I wish there was a way to devise a weapon that kills combatants and only combatants? Of course.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3444750 - 12/04/04 05:20 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

exclusive58 writes:

Is this video really not being shown all over the American media??

As of the time I made my first post in the thread, not a single US TV station had run it. That may have changed since. Perhaps some of our American readers could confirm or deny this.

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
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Posts: 9,134
Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444751 - 12/04/04 05:21 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I suggest you check the dictionary for the definition of "purported".

So who has "purported" he was playing dead apart from the person who shot him?

there have been a handful of reports in the mainstream media about this and virtually no followup reports.

And you think this is because there is a left-wing conspiracy? Even tho you quote alleged "left-wing" sources reporting the story?

Perhaps the reason for the excessive coverage of the incident in Iraq is that it was so outside the norm for American troops to behave like that and therefore very big news.

It's much simpler than that. Iraq has been the biggest news story in the world for the last 2-3 years. Anything that happens there is likely to get far more attention than an incident in the Ivory Coast. No left-wing conspiracy needed.

The news-story about one english civilian being killed by al-zarqawi was bigger than the Ivory Coast story too. It's nothing to do with being anti-american, Iraq is simply a bigger story.

Perhaps no one is surprised to hear of French troops massacring their unarmed ex-colonial subjects and therefore it is less newsworthy.

Sad to say it but when there's thousands upon thousands more civilians being slaughtered in Iraq a handful of civilians getting killed in the Ivory Coast is going to recieve less attention. The bigger stories get more attention. If France had killed as many civilians as the US have no fear it would be just as big a news story.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3444907 - 12/04/04 06:13 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Have coalition forces deliberately opened fire on groups of civilian Iraqis -- either with handheld arms or with helicopter gunships? Nope.





Come on, do you really believe that? You really think all the civilians were killed by bombs only?

I'll talk to you in ten years or so, when many reports of american barbary will get disclosed to the public. Remember Vietnam barbary? Hisory repeats itself.


So in this regard, I agree with Alex, what's happening in Ivory Coast is much less significant than what's goin on in Iraq. History will almost forget about the Ivorian tragedy, whereas the way things will go on our planet from now on is going to be deeply affected by the Iraq war, and is therefore going to be written in all of our grandchildren's History school books.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3445450 - 12/04/04 11:03 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Do I really believe that not a single US troop in Iraq ever fired a shot from his rifle which ended up killing a civilian? No, of course not. Given the tendency of the "insurgents" to take the human shield approach to warfare, it is a cast-iron guarantee that some Iraqis have died from wounds inflicted by coalition bullets.

Again, this is not even close to the same thing the French troops and helicopter gunships did.

Re-read my question -- "Have coalition forces deliberately opened fire on groups of civilian Iraqis -- either with handheld arms or with helicopter gunships?"

If your answer is anything other than "nope", I'd really appreciate seeing some verification from credible sources.


pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3445476 - 12/04/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

eclusive58 writes:

So in this regard, I agree with Alex, what's happening in Ivory Coast is much less significant than what's goin on in Iraq.

"Significant" in what way? Does "significant" mean the same as "newsworthy"? Nope.

Do you not recognize the hypocrisy illustrated by the intense furor of media attention given to the actions of a single trooper versus the near total silence regarding the actions of a squad of troopers acting under direct orders from their commander? Or a helicopter gunship firing on a crowd of demonstrators? You don't find that kind of policy "significant"?

Why are the actions of an ex-colonial master involving itself again -- militarily -- in the internal affairs of its ex-colony so insignificant as to draw yawns from the international media? I'm having difficulty comprehending the logic here.

History will almost forget about the Ivorian tragedy...

You are probably correct, more's the pity. You can bet if the US were involved, though, such would not be the case.

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3445487 - 12/04/04 11:15 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Have coalition forces deliberately opened fire on groups of civilian Iraqis -- either with handheld arms or with helicopter gunships?"

Every time the US opens fire on a group of civilians they are always classed as "insurgents" so it's an impossibility. Bomb a wedding party? "They were insurgents". Bomb a mosque? "They were insurgents". Kill children? "Sorry, we were aiming at the insurgents".

And as the stories you quoted mention - the French are saying it was government loyalists who opened fire and the crowd who returned fire. They French didn't "deliberately open fire on civilians". Just like the US never does...


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3445508 - 12/04/04 11:24 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You don't find that kind of policy "significant"?

You are claiming the French deliberately opened fire on unarmed civilians. That's not the story you posted initially at all. The French are saying the protestors were armed and firing back. If the US had responded in a similar fashion you would be claiming "The protestors shouldn't have opened fire, it was simple self-defence".

I'm having difficulty comprehending the logic here

Probably because the logic you are using is so ludicrous. The Ivory coast is not as big a news story as the illegal invasion of Iraq. That is simple reality.

You can bet if the US were involved, though, such would not be the case.

Don't be silly. There is no worldwide marxist media conspiracy no matter how much you want to believe there is.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleGijith
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Gijith]
    #3445526 - 12/04/04 11:31 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

At least 35 US newspapaers are now running this story.

I'm running out and don't have time to list them all, but they're all on Google.

The Guardian is also running it.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Xlea321]
    #3445559 - 12/04/04 11:48 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

And as the stories you quoted mention - the French are saying it was government loyalists who opened fire and the crowd who returned fire.

The videos show otherwise, as do the reports from non-French. For that matter, the official French line on this has changed several times already, as you'd know if you had been following this from the beginning (November 9).

Even if it eventually turns out that some of the protesters were in fact armed, it doesn't affect my point -- that the media has given this remarkably little attention. My point isn't that the French did a bad thing, my point is that the media isn't jumping all over this because in this case there is no possibility to show the US as the bad guy. I had presumed people would be able to infer my point from the title I chose for the thread. Guess I was wrong.


pinky


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3446073 - 12/04/04 02:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

pinky,

The media isn't jumping on this is because 80% of Americans probably don't know Ivory Coast is a country. And I'm positive 99.9% couldn't find it on a map.

That said, it is getting attention from major media, as I've pointed out. And many more will probably pick up on this in the next few weeks.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Phred]
    #3446425 - 12/04/04 04:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Alex123 writes:

And as the stories you quoted mention - the French are saying it was government loyalists who opened fire and the crowd who returned fire.

The videos show otherwise, as do the reports from non-French. For that matter, the official French line on this has changed several times already, as you'd know if you had been following this from the beginning (November 9).






That's not true, the video only shows helicopter rounds being fired because they're really easy to see at night, and ordinary hand held weapon shots don't show up like that at night. There is no way of determining who shot first from the video. And plus the official french line has always been the same: "they shot first".

I find it really funny that you think that the reason the media isn't jumping all over this is because it doesn't show how the US as a bad guy. It just doesn't add up.

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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3446479 - 12/04/04 04:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I find it really funny that you think that the reason the media isn't jumping all over this is because it doesn't show how the US as a bad guy. It just doesn't add up.




It's the whole "liberal media conspiricy" that every single conservative has drilled into their heads by the republicans even though the owners of media companies are all conservative and republican themselves. Every time something somewhat negative about US actions is reported its the "goddamn US-hating, Frenchie-loving, liberal media" conspiracy spouting lies.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3446490 - 12/04/04 04:48 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

:grin:

The frenchie loving media. Yeah, I'm constantly overwhelmed by the amount of French loving going on in the american media..


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleGijith
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3446608 - 12/04/04 05:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Not to mention, if there was one media organization in the world that would be out to push this story, it would be Fox. They haven't touched it yet. That's because, as many of us has been saying, this isn't huge news. It was a horrible thing for the French military to have done, but it's not something the media can successfully capitalize on in the US.

I'd predict PBS and Reuters go to press with this before Fox.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3446667 - 12/04/04 05:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
Quote:

I find it really funny that you think that the reason the media isn't jumping all over this is because it doesn't show how the US as a bad guy. It just doesn't add up.




It's the whole "liberal media conspiricy" that every single conservative has drilled into their heads by the republicans even though the owners of media companies are all conservative and republican themselves.  Every time something somewhat negative about US actions is reported its the "goddamn US-hating, Frenchie-loving, liberal media" conspiracy spouting lies.




Ahhh, I get it now, thanx for explaining that to me, makes sense now.


Quote:

Quote:

Gijith said:

The media isn't jumping on this is because 80% of Americans probably don't know Ivory Coast is a country. And I'm positive 99.9% couldn't find it on a map.










:grin: that made me laugh

What's even funnier is that its probably true.


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: exclusive58]
    #3449273 - 12/05/04 09:17 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

More stories here:

http://www.fuckfrance.com

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3453802 - 12/06/04 08:56 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

haha, did you notice how the welcomeeverybody website is full of pictures that aren't real individuals? Its almost like this one guy created this website with random pictures that he found of Moore, Bush, drunk people, dogs and parrots to create a beautiful album of puppets saying that they are pro bush. Wow, how creative can you get?

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InvisibleGijith
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Gijith]
    #3457066 - 12/06/04 09:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
Not to mention, if there was one media organization in the world that would be out to push this story, it would be Fox. They haven't touched it yet. That's because, as many of us has been saying, this isn't huge news. It was a horrible thing for the French military to have done, but it's not something the media can successfully capitalize on in the US.

I'd predict PBS and Reuters go to press with this before Fox.




Reuters: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L0336345.htm

PBS: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/ivorycoast_11-09-04.html

Fox:.... nope, still nothing. How bizarre.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: I'm sure we'll see the media jump all over this one [Re: Gijith]
    #3457115 - 12/06/04 09:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Rational thought: 1

"Liberal media" conspiracy nuts: 0


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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