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OfflinePhluck
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What still gets me...
    #3438158 - 12/02/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Why do people think that feeling something very strongly verifies it's validity?

If I just kind of think that Jesus will probably save my soul if I accept him, or if I REALLY REALLY KNOW CHRIST'S LOVE...

I have exactly the same amount of evidence, I just feel more strongly in one case than in another.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3438255 - 12/02/04 05:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Brainwashing the self is a game most people seem to be able to play, I agree.
I guess when it comes to religious or philosophical questions, the personal answer is the most relevant for everyone.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineGomp
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3438295 - 12/02/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Why do people think?


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Onlinedeff
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Gomp]
    #3438323 - 12/02/04 05:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hmm, let me think about that one :smile:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Gomp]
    #3438332 - 12/02/04 05:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

We think for exactly the same reason that frogs got them funny eyes.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Onlinedeff
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3438399 - 12/02/04 05:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

No, not entirely.

A person can transcend thoughts while still seeing :wink:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: deff]
    #3438419 - 12/02/04 06:01 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

They can do what?

I'm not sure you understood what I was getting at, and I've got no idea what you're getting at.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Onlinedeff
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3438457 - 12/02/04 06:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

as in meditate, become thoughtless, and still perceive visual input :cool:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: deff]
    #3438489 - 12/02/04 06:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What does that have to do with frogs, or with why we think?

What I was getting at was, frogs have their eyes for the same reason we have the ability to think, which I would argue is most likely the result of natural selection.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3438510 - 12/02/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

One problem here is that as you cross into the realms of feelings, the concept of "validity" or fact or truth becomes very subjective. For instance I may feel really good and happy right now, and that would be a fact to me, but you have no way to determine how I feel. You can measure my serotonin levels or whatever you like to determine my "happiness" yet the feeling itself is very subjective and dependent on personal experience.

The second more obvious problem is that "Christ's love" is not an objective feeling categorizable within the range of human emotions. "Christ's love" is a made up term for a certain elated feeling that one gets while following certain thought patterns. The feeling of "Christ's love" may be another's feeling of "Universal oneness" and to yet another it may be called just plain "joy." What I'm saying here is that people take a feeling that's common to all humans, and just attach different names to it.

In this sense, feeling "Christ's love" means absolutely nothing except for the fact that you felt that particular way. The meaning of the emotion, which originally doesn't exist, is created and attached after-the-fact to fit a belief system already in place. Thus to feel something strongly or weakly is irrelevant to the meaning created by the person. All it means is more or less chemicals were released by the body at one particular point in time following a particular train of thought.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: ]
    #3438535 - 12/02/04 06:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Onlinedeff
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3438676 - 12/02/04 06:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"chemicals"

and these are? :laugh:

not that I don't agree with everything else you said in your post (it was a mighty fine post :smile:), but this whole anchor of "it's all chemcials" or "it's all energy" just further encrypts the lack of true knowledge.

I could say it's all "pigrelish", and it attaches the same level of 'truth' to it :cool:

Edit: I sorta misread that part :smile:. Ignore this and crap.


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Edited by deff (12/02/04 06:52 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: deff]
    #3438780 - 12/02/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well, we know for certain that chemicals can and do play a huge role in the function of our minds and our emotions. We also know we can manipulate emotions and the mind's processes through chemicals.

"Energy" is a term used by people who are discussing the possibility of spiritual influences.

It is not something that has ever been measured, nor been shown to have any impact. Basically, we've got no evidence that this "brain energy" even exists, let alone if it affects our minds.

So it seems like a far more likely possibility that chemicals have a greater impact than "energy", which we aren't even sure what it is, let alone if it exists at all.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Onlinedeff
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3438835 - 12/02/04 07:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think I was clear with my post :/

I mean energy as in the scientific term, not 'metaphysical'.

As in, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. (LOCOE)

As well as chemicals in the scientific meaning, but not limited to human brain function and consciousness.

Both of these terms do absolutely nothing to really carry truth about reality. They are anchors. Do not stop there :smile:. Think of the concepts behind each of these words in your head _without_ using linguistic thought (that only further encrypts it :wink:).

Really, I can call smaller discrete portions of larger structures whatever I want, but adopting the attitude that nothing is sacred as it's just "chemicals" seems rather odd. What's the difference...?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: deff]
    #3439152 - 12/02/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Think of the concepts behind each of these words in your head _without_ using linguistic thought (that only further encrypts it ).

How will this further my understanding of the human mind? I might invent some very creative explanations for things... but they won't necessarily relate to the true function at all.

but adopting the attitude that nothing is sacred as it's just "chemicals" seems rather odd

Why's that? Why do things need to be sacred?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3439169 - 12/02/04 08:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ah, but that question is no different than why things need not be sacred.

The fact is, if nothing needs to have an inherent value attached to it, then it is all equal. And this leaves us only to judge it based on the merit that it exists at all. And this, in itself, is an incredible thing to me.

Is it not incredible to you that the human brain exists? That it works the way it does, chemicals and all?

"Sacred" is just a word... the problem that I think deff is getting at is that logic attempts to undermine the value of things in general... as if once we understand it we can dismiss it, because it no longer offers intellectual stimulation.

Why not leave the intellectual stimulation out of it and simply appreciate what is for what it is?

Just food for though, as usual... *strolls along*


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3439186 - 12/02/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't see how understanding undermines anything.

I think that the human mind is amazing... so are lots of things.

I think computers are pretty damn amazing too, even though we can understand them enough to create them.

"Sacred" kind of implies it comes from somewhere else, is "touched by god" or "sent from another realm".

I don't think anything needs to be beyond us, or our understanding to be beautiful, awe inducing, or astonishing.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: Phluck]
    #3439206 - 12/02/04 08:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
"Sacred" kind of implies it comes from somewhere else, is "touched by god" or "sent from another realm".





But to me, you're talking about two sides of the same coin. To me, everything is touched by god. Everything is sacred. Everything IS god. To view the world as it is and truly accept it's incredible, beautiful, awe inducing, and astonishing nature IS to consider it sacred--atleast for me.

Not from another realm... but from THIS realm. And that in itself is awe inspiring to a degree that I would consider using the word sacred.

Quote:


I don't think anything needs to be beyond us, or our understanding to be beautiful, awe inducing, or astonishing.




Then we are in agreement. :wink:


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Onlinedeff
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3439632 - 12/02/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

""Sacred" is just a word... the problem that I think deff is getting at is that logic attempts to undermine the value of things in general... as if once we understand it we can dismiss it, because it no longer offers intellectual stimulation."

Exactly :smile:

And not only that, we are convincing ourselves that we know a lot more than we do. Like I said, "chemicals" as a symbol describes nothing about this framework of existance as a whole. It is inherently useless philosophically.

EVERYTHING is chemicals, so why use the term? It places our understanding to a level where we assume we have a grasp on "physical reality", and in turn reduces questioning, but more importantly - APPRECIATION. (what I meant by 'sacred' - not actually religious like the connotation)

Look at the complexity. Marvel in it. MARVEL!

Chemicals, schmemicals. Energy, smenergy. PIGRELISH!


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: What still gets me... [Re: deff]
    #3439670 - 12/02/04 10:01 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

A person can transcend thoughts while still seeing


I totally agree, not just because you seem to share my own reality view, but rather because from my own expereince ajd thoughts, fantasies etc merely serve to obfuscate the truth and that truth is my sig :smile:


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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