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OfflineSpleh
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Registered: 06/19/03
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Bad Trip Post Anxiety? * 1
    #3436689 - 12/02/04 12:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

About 3 weeks ago I had one hell of a bad trip(2grams of potent cubes and a maoi), major anxiety and paranoia, hot flushes ,sweating,hyper analysing and breaking down everything and anything in my mind and major emotion confliction (Like wanting to be inside and lie down and at the same time wanting to be outside running around shouting) Major ego loss and shattering. These effects basically continued for 3 hours before i could recover and enjoy the rest of the trip. I guess the major problem was expecting an equivelant level 4 gram trip, this felt more intense and horrible then i could ever imagine.

The trouble is this, after that bad trip I've had a remaining sense of anxiety that has not gone away, It's there nearly everyday nearly all day. Thinking about the bad trip doesn't bring back the anxiety or make it any worse I just believe this to be the cause of it as I was fine before the trip. Its eating away at me, I feel like I can't enjoy anything anymore, I can't even relax. This is tearing me up quite a lot, after 12 years of schooling i want nothing but to RELAX and i can't!

I've just finished my last year of schooling not long ago so I should be anything but anxious. I'm starting to think the shrooms have set off some sort of generalised anxiety disorder in my brain. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

I get prescribed zolpidem for my insomnia which also helps a lot with the anxiety so if this keeps up for another few weeks i plan on seeing the doctor. And one other thing, is it possible for a horribley bad trip to cause a form of post traumatic stress and anxiety? even if the anxiety doesn't occur directly from thinking about it?

Thanks anyway  :sad:


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #3436834 - 12/02/04 12:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

you freaked yourself out, son. your ego could not handle the Experience.

yes, you can get prescribed some benzos or whatever to be c a l m and medicated - but you wont find a solution to the core problem.

I recommend learning how to relax.
look into meditation and yoga
or just old fashioned exercise.
go read the tibetan book of the dead
and integrate the death experience with your trip.

you must heal yourself.


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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3436863 - 12/02/04 12:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

good luck man

i know you can do it  :thumbup:


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OfflineSpleh
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3437093 - 12/02/04 01:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I meditate quiet often and go to the gym at least 3 times a week, it doesnt seem to be helping much at all. Although the meidtation calms me for the period of time im medidating.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #3437192 - 12/02/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

then time to bust out the books.
you need to reintegrate.

you've had a bizarre experience
and now that you're back in ordinary reality,
things dont make sense and you dont feel good.
change this.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Vvellum]
    #3437652 - 12/02/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Good advice.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: MOTH]
    #3438392 - 12/02/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

see, I'm not so bad elmerslimshady  :rocket:


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #3453481 - 12/06/04 06:47 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah man, I had ptsd after a crap experience where I took E with a MAOI. I read about effective treatments for ptsd and consulted with a psychologist to make sure I was doing the right thing (even though my education is in psychology). I got rid of it in 3 months by meditating mostly. It also helped to look at what thoughts I was having that were asociated with my anxiety. They were mostly irrational thoughts. You need to challenge the thoughts you are having. Argue with yourself like you were a lawyer arguing a case. There is usually lots of convincing evidence to put up against them. It can be anxiety arousing to do it but you need to be more anxious for that short time to be less anxious in the long run, if that makes sence. It might be reassuring to know that most ptsd disappears within 3 months. Meditate regularly and have faith! I know your pain, man.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #3453543 - 12/06/04 08:07 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What likely happened is that your ego was pulled into an egoloss experience, you clung onto it with all your might and with this resistance against the flow you tore your psychological constellation apart.

Had you not resisted you would've been fine and had you been able to resist more effectively there would be no significant problem too.

What you needed, at that time, is two buddies at your sides guiding you through  :heart: and 10mg of Valium for good measure.
This is why the Valium is on the table with us veterans when my team trips.

Sometimes the situation is such that you cannot surrender. And all the hippies can cast you condemning looks about how you should go with the flow but at that time you just couldn't and that was that.
So don't feel bad about it: it went how it went and it is how it is.

Even 1 gram of strong mushrooms could have brought this about.
Don't think it was the MAOI or the high dose or other weird chemical shit: you've had a psychological accident.

Psychedelics even in a low dose can occasionally bring forth experiences that are mightily stressful and at this time you just weren't up to it, while the high dose kept pounding you with intensity. This is what I often warn about and this is what the highdosers often casually dismiss:
Sometimes you just can't cope with it.


And there you are.
First of all I can put you at ease as to outcome: It's likely this condition will come to an end even without added pills or drugs. You have been mightily scared, mightily stressed and mightily mind-warped and you need time to sort things out. And sorting things out usually works automatically but I strongly advise you to work at it.

First of all visit a psychiatrist and have yourself checked. He likely has a label for you because you got chronic complaints. The only thing that really matters is that you are not lightly psychotic at this moment. All the other diagnoses tend to be purely mental and if caused by psychedelics they can be tremendously upsetting but fully reversible, often without any drugs or a brief regimen.

Psychosis is a weakness in your brain structure combined with a stressful event that can last very long and proceed to unhinge you. It is the only psychological condition that HAS to be treated with drugs in every instance it occurs and as soon as possible.
If there is schizophrenia in the family or some very odd auntie this is an additional reason to be swift with visiting a doc.
Developing psychosis is quite rare however, and many conditions can feel just like it or feel far worse yet be far less serious.
Psychosis is just like a broken leg: it is a specific illness that is very diagnosable by a capable doc.

you need not tell him you took psychedelics because most doctors don't understand those anyway. You can just say that one day some horrible horrible things happened to you and that you don't want to talk about it. It's your right to withold that information, and the taking of say LSD and having an excruciating bad trip are nothing different from having a major traumatic experience experienced without drugs.

So seek out a doc this week, but know that it's pretty unlikely you came down with psychosis. To go back to 19th century diagnosis: you likely had a nervous breakdown. You probably need rest and calm to think it all through. Maybe you will get episodes of strong unpleasantness but if you are not psychotic this is just your mind healing itself, which is to be encouraged and known as "flashbacks".

Flashbacks are no damage: I have had them too after a difficult trip and once you work through and accept the hidden issues they go away and never return.

You should see a doctor, and for the rest you should try to chill out. This means lotsa doing nothing, listening to music, casually thinking things trough and not distracting yourself or fleeing from it.
It was fleeing and resisting that got you into this mess so don't compound that by keeping it all from running it's course.

Click "Best Tripping Manual" in my signature and if you don't mind $pending a buck or two get the PDF and read it as a printout book.
If you got a good printer and average reading speed it will be 5 bucks and a lazy day's reading at most.
You'll understand psychedelics (and what happened to you) far better then anything anyone could say. That book is solid gold. :thumbup:

What you should do is take some daytime to lie down on your bed or recline in a comfortable chair with your eyes shut and just listen to your thoughts but don't actively add thoughts in the mix. Listen to your thoughts like you would to a radio programme and relax. The best duration for this is 20min to 1 hour, it is kinda like a Si?sta without actually sleeping, but in reality it is the safest and most natural form of meditation. If theres a serious risk of falling asleep set your alarmclock.

If you slowly descend into a nothingness and then get a sense of urgency and tinglyness coming over you in a wave, do not be alarmed: it is literally the changing of your consciousness from one state of mind into the other. It is followed by suddenly feeling either better or worse. This is a healthy, safe, natural thing that is part of the healing process even though it can be quite alarming.
After one such changes (wich may happen without you knowing) you will finally be healed if you are on a typical bad-trip aftermath.

Bottom line: visit a doc to see if it's psychosis. Relax and practice this passive meditation technique. Chances are great that you will be fine in some time. But please keep us posted.

It sounds perfectly rotten, but I noticed your postcount..
Welcome to the Shroomery :heart:, it just sucks it has to be like this.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #3453549 - 12/06/04 08:14 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

sorry to hear man...it took me a few months to get over my first bad trip and build the courage to go again but the next one put a wall between it...happy shrooms to come :thumbup:


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OfflineSpleh
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: ]
    #3481070 - 12/11/04 11:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the advice, it's good to see that other people understand. The anxiety is still there but it seems to come in waves, i've been meditating quite a lot lately if I can whenever the anxiety sets in.

I have decided against seeing the doctor as i don't believe drawing more attention to the situation and most likely ending up with a benzo or ssri would help me in the long run. I believe it would be bad to use the sedative effect as a crutch in this sort of situation as it could possibley leave me being a nervous wreck and relying on it in the future to get me through certain situations and not face them myself.

If I find the anxiety persists for more then a few months i'll see the doctor or a therapist and see what they say. I'm also planning on stopping the use of my zolpidem for now and seeing if it helps me clear my head and let me analyse certain thoughts better before sleep.

Wiccan_Seeker: I don't believe i was resisting the flow of the mushrooms but it's exactly how you described. I never thought i'd be one to have a bad trip, i'm usually very good at just letting myself go and flowing with it and i even thought to myself at one point that i was having this bad trip because i was resisting and mentally told myself to go with it and everything would be fine but no such luck this time. It just seemed like i had a mental break and couldn't control or flow with it. I guess i wasn't expecting the intensity it hit me with. Also i'm not really new to the shroomery at all, i've just been lurking and never posting for about 2 years now.

I guess the hardest thing is when the anxiety wells up and i feel like im going mad, sometimes certain basic things just seem like too much for me in my head, for the time being i'll keep trying to analyse my thoughts and get rid of this annoying looming anxiety.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #3484749 - 12/12/04 02:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"I guess the hardest thing is when the anxiety wells up and i feel like im going mad"
Sounds like panic. I made a thread re some strategies to deal with it, if you are interested.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: enotake2]
    #3484831 - 12/12/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Doh. Looks like that thread has been archived. I'll have to paste it from the word doc I originally made it in. A strategy it doesn't talk about is slow breathing. The symptoms of panic are due to overbreathing and the imbalance between oxygen and carbon-dioxide in the blood. I used to know exactly how it works physiologically but have forgotten. Basically you have too much oxygen, hence the lightheaded and unreal feeling about it, and other symptoms are caused by this too. Being anxious and having no obvious external cause, it is natural to look inwards for a cause and when one doesn't exist you think you're going crazy or dying and that just escalates the anxiety. The most important thing is to realise that it can't hurt you and try to tell yourself reassuring things (eg. it's OK, I can get through this) and to distract your mind with other things. You just have to wait it out till the adrenaline processes in yr body. Anyway, I will probably have repeated myself a few times, but here is the text.

Panic is a sudden heightening of physiological arousal that occurs out of the blue (or in response to a phobic situation). Physical symptoms include rapid heartbeat, dizziness, blurred vision, numbness, muscle tension, sweating, shaking, feelings of breathlessness and choking.

Panic is caused by overbreathing and a rush of adrenalin that activates the autonomic nervous system. People with panic become frightened of their physical sensations. External sources of danger are usually absent so the person looks inwards for the cause and invents a danger - "I am going crazy, dieing, etc." Since this is frightening, it is understandable that fear and panic result, producing more symptoms, more fear, and a cycle of escalating anxiety.

In the case of panic which is not an isolated incident, the physical symptoms may become associated with the trauma of panic, so you can become highly sensitive to the sensations as conditioned signals of threat or danger, and react fearfully simply because of past panic episodes.

#Deflate the danger#

* A panic attack cannot cause a heart failure: Your heart can beat at 200 bpm for days without causing heart failure. Any pain in your chest is transient with panic - as compared with a crushing prolonged pain that occurs with heart attack.

* A panic attack will not cause you to stop breathing or suffocate: Chest and neck muscles tighten with panic (your bodies natural defense to try to stop you breathing so much oxygen), however, the tightening sensations will pass. Your brain has a built in reflex mechanism that will eventually force you to breathe if you are not getting enough oxygen.

* A panic attack cannot cause you to faint. You may feel faint during a panic attack because blood circulation to your brain is slightly reduced. Slow breathing from the abdomen will help this.

* A panic attack cannot cause you to lose your balance. Tension can affect the semicircular canal system in your ear which affect balance. Though this is very unlikely to make you lose your balance.

* You won't fall over or cease to walk when you feel "weak in the knees" during a panic attack. Adrenaline can dilate the blood vessels in your legs producing a sensation of "jelly legs". It is just a sensation however - your legs will still be able to carry you as ever.

* You can't go crazy during a panic attack. Disorientation and the sense of unreality that occurs with panic is due to a slight and temporary reduction of arterial circulation to your brain. No one has ever gone crazy from a panic attack. People do not go crazy in a sudden way, as mental disorders develop gradually.

* A panic attack cannot cause you to lose control of yourself. You can imagine that you will 'completely lose it' during a panic attack. But there are no instances of eg. running amok or becoming paralysed that have been reported. If anything, you are more heightened to escape.


#Don?t fight the symptoms#

This is a way of telling yourself you can't handle the panic attack and is likely to make your anxiety worse. Just let go and observe your body?s state of arousal.

Float with the wave of a panic attack. You have just had an adrenalin rush. The adrenalin takes 3-5 minutes to reabsorb. You have to give it time to dissipate. Flow with the rise and fall in arousal.

Coping statements

Use positive statements to help you get through the panic attack eg:

"I've survived this before, I will survive this time, too"

"I'll just let my body do its thing. This will pass"

"This anxiety won't hurt me even if it doesn't feel good"

"So what"

#Some other strategies#

* Retreat. Leave the situation you are in. In most cases you can find a way to leave. Come back again when the panic has decreased or gone.

* Talk to another person. This will take your mind off your panic.

* Move around or engage in physical activity. This will dissipate the extra energy or adrenalin you have from the panic.

* Stay in the present and focus on external objects. Distract yourself by eg. counting things, feeling things, singing.

* Do an activity - write, play a game or an instrument, read something , etc.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: enotake2]
    #3484962 - 12/12/04 03:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Can it cause heart attack? That's what I'm afraid of.

I smoke, hell, I chain smoke. Does this cause panic? Because I'm on paxil and my dad is telling me to wing myself off because I can't afford it and I'm on it because of panic syndome. So help me out here, today I didn't take it. I have 14 pills left and I'm skipping every other day and quitting it because I can't afford it. I need to know.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.


Edited by AreoZephin (12/12/04 03:28 AM)


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3485023 - 12/12/04 03:52 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No it can't cause heart attack. From above:

* A panic attack cannot cause a heart failure: Your heart can beat at 200 bpm for days without causing heart failure. Any pain in your chest is transient with panic, - as compared with a crushing prolonged pain that occurs with heart attack.

That kinda sux that your dad is making you come of the paxil. I would be nice if you could get over the panic first. Though psychological means are the best way of dealing with panic and are much more effective than meds. I hope the above info helps.

Do you chain smoke tobacco? If it is tobacco, it can contribute to panic because it is a stimulant and so increases your arousal levels making your threshhold lower for panic. Smoking marijuana can also contribute to panic.

Unfortunately one of the withdrawal symptoms from coming off paxil is anxiety, so you might find that your anxiety is worse for a while. I would recommend taking half a tab a day rather than 1 every other day, to keep your mood level more constant. Then drop down to a quarter before coming off, completely. Some valerian root while you are withdrawing might also help with the withdrawal.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineAreoZephin
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: enotake2]
    #3485059 - 12/12/04 04:09 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Whew. Yes, I've chainsmoked basically since I was 16 and now I'm 19 and I started having panic attacks for the first time in my life at about half way through age 18. I then tried smoking marijuana at age 17 and it made me panic real bad. Especially the time I got wasted and smoked marijuana at someone house (Bad story), I then quit trying to smoke it a little after. I smoked it about 15 times total and every time wasn't a normal high as other people have except one time I was ok taking 2 hits off a joint but I never had a normal high except that once.

Anyway, I take Paxil CR 12.5 MG Time released. It's a yellow tablet basically hardened powder type if I was to chop it in half and see white chalky rock solid. I should have taken it today at 3:00pm and it's 3:04am now, so I suppose I should just go ahead and wake until 3pm today.

By the way as a child I was always nervous around people for some reason I was shy and worried about what other people thought due to childhood crap until I got into public school I was fine and coming over it. (My private school was hell, believe it or not and no it has nothing to do with religion, just the people there). So I had a bad history of nervousness before I smoked, smoking seemed to help but not it's like.. making it seems it's triggered a worse effect for me.

That's really awesome you know about this root, I'm really glad to hear there's a herb for it. I'm going to try that valerian root.


--------------------
The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.


Edited by AreoZephin (12/12/04 04:10 AM)


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OfflineSpleh
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3485372 - 12/12/04 09:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah i've always had panic attack type symptoms in certain situations, mainly with me breathing far too shallow breaths. The anxiety just seems to trigger the adrenaline\panic buildup, even after meditation i can still feel the anxiety but im pretty sure this anxiety is getting less frequent which is always a nice thing. :smile:


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Bad Trip Post Anxiety? [Re: Spleh]
    #4474152 - 07/30/05 06:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I bad tripped on acid about ten times when I was a kid and I felt possessed by satan. It took me five years to get over it, and I had to go the route of getting away from everyone and everything and practicing meditation in retreat and all that shit.

Be thankful you aren't in my shoes. it was really fucking hard to get over. But I did, and so can you.


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