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Offlinekadakuda
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Plants for muscle ache?
    #3434192 - 12/01/04 08:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

im getting damn tired of pharmacists showing me all these new space age type pill shit.  so does anyone know any good or thought to be good plants that are used for muscle ache?  rub, eat, whatever.  thing is it cant get me intoxicated, at least as much as many ethnos here do.  i still have to drive and work.

the pills that worked best so far is ibuprofan, but not great.  anywho ya, just looking for another natural miracle :smile:


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3434227 - 12/01/04 08:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ummm...
i was going to recommend you yopo... but that's not recommendable for someone who has to drive or work...
perhaps in the end of the day?
otherwise i would recommend you to stick with pharm anti-inflamatories... rather than an analgesic.


FH


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: felixhigh]
    #3434269 - 12/01/04 08:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Little tough to come by but isnt peyote balm good for aches?


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InvisibleLifenergy
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: Legoulash]
    #3434288 - 12/01/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

How about Cordyalis Ambigua root? I also here that Pedicularis Groenlandica and Pedicularis Canadensis are good for muscle-relaxation purposes.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3434360 - 12/01/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

what is peyote balm?  i quoted it in a search and got nothing and unquoted and jsut got peyote sizzle.

and ya yopo may be a little much...dont wanna do a line and start tripping on the roof :tongue:

aboot Cordyalis Ambigua root. i found this, and if tis right sounds kinda good.  teh thing i worry about is it says its used for blood stasis.  now im kinda ignorant about that stuff but doesnt that mean it thins it a bit in order to stop clotts and keep flow good?  i have pretty low blood pressure as is, would that do much?
heres link
http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/herb_information/corydalis_ambigua.htm

and about Pedicularis...i found this site interesting
http://www.swsbm.com/FOLIOS/PedFol.pdf
the thing that worries em is this: "Eating some of the fresh plant of a strong strain will offer a mild muscular-skeletal lethargy."  that realyl worries me.  thats the only sit ei found really on its medicinal uses.  do you happen to know any more sources?

thanks for the replys guys, much appreciated :smile:


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3434473 - 12/01/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

chew some willow?


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3434508 - 12/01/04 09:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Devil's Claw


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlinebmarley3434
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #3434554 - 12/01/04 09:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

capasaicin cream is the best for musicles.. also amor seco teabags, arnica cream, balsam or tolu resin. the last 3 im reading from my favorite most reliable book on herbs entitled "perscriptions for herbal healing" by phyllis a balch.. i definately reccomend capasaicin .. which is the active ingredient in hot peppers.. it does wonders for any type of soarness or pain


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InvisibleLifenergy
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: neuro]
    #3434586 - 12/01/04 09:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I liked those links. I enjoyed the comments about the Pedicularis.


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: neuro]
    #3434626 - 12/01/04 10:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

wow never heard of that but it seems like a fucking AWSOME herb!  have only jsu tstarted reading about it, it even mentions it as a use instead of ibuprofen.  thanks for the mention neuro :smile:

quick q that i may read about further on.  quote from first link below.  "In fact, it was from salicylic acid, one of the ingredients in Willow Bark, that aspirin was originally synthesized."  im sure you know wher ethis is going.  ASA, i knwo little about it but ya.  willow have it in it?
i checked Dr. Dukes, http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/duke/farmacy2.pl , and didnt see it but all thsoe words are foeign to me anyway.  it also says teh bark contains "CYANIDIN-3-GLUCOSIDE".  that word freaks me out, any worries?  that was in the White Willow by the by.

for others reading this here are a couple sites on the willow deal.
http://www.theolivebranch.com/herbs/willow.htm


bunch of aspirin info that i could not finish reading
http://www.hmpublishing.com/hmplabscollection/Carr109/Aspirin%201.pdf

jsut a neat sorta unrelated link i foudn while searching
http://www.stoller-eser.com/PDF/Flora/Ethnoecology%20Table.pdf

---------------

devils claw i have been looking for some time now.  no nursery seems to carry it or order it here.  jus tto be sure we are on the same page it is "Proboscidea altheaefolia"?  ive never heard mention of medicinal uses but ive never really read much about the plant, i just amd facinated by their seed pods.

---------------

marley, ill look up that cream.  jsut looked up that book and if its as good as you say it is its not that expensive.  ill look into it in a couple pay checks.  funny you should mention hot peppers.  i have talked with people about its effects and some think of it as a "drug".  it made the peopel i spoke with relaxed and no pains or bad feelings (even mentally).  its all heresay and ive never read up on that either but i think ill make a note of it.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


Edited by kadakuda (12/01/04 10:10 PM)


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Offlinebmarley3434
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3434775 - 12/01/04 10:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

capacin is a definate high .. it effects your neuros to bump out massive amounts of endorphin . just try to eat a really hot pepper its definately a rush .. if you make an ointment and apply it to your effected area it should work like a charm.


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InvisibleLifenergy
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: bmarley3434]
    #3434872 - 12/01/04 10:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If you are worried about blood thinners like you stated about the Cordyalis, you should avoid willow bark and all the salicylates, as they are potent anticoagulants. Willow bark is an excellent pain-reliever though. I powder it and put it in 00 caps and use those instead of ibuprofen or acetaminophen now. I know that Feverfew has a history of being used very effectively for treating migraines, but I don't know if it would be of much use otherwise. Are you looking for analgesic properties, a mild sedative, or just muscle relaxation?


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3434920 - 12/01/04 10:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

>>quick q that i may read about further on. quote from first link below. "In fact, it was from salicylic acid, one of the ingredients in Willow Bark, that aspirin was originally synthesized." im sure you know wher ethis is going. ASA, i knwo little about it but ya. willow have it in it? checked Dr. Dukes, http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/duke/farmacy2.pl , and didnt see it but all thsoe words are foeign to me anyway.


That link doesn't work. But i looked up willow on my own and it came up with two prospects.

White Willow bark (Salix alba), is what you want and it contains several Salicins.

Quote:


SALICIN Bark 4200 110000 PED98
SALICIN Leaf 0.09 9294 HHB
SALICIN Bark 25000 110000 PED 11119 6549 6588
SALICORTIN Bark 6588
SALICORTIN Leaf 0.27 9294 HHB
SALICYL-ALCOHOL Plant 411
SALICYLIC-ACID Plant 411





The last one being the one that's used to make acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin). I'm sure the other's contribute to pain relieving (prostaglandin synthesis inhibitor) action. I think plato or aristotle and probably other minds of antiquity have espoused the chewing of willow bark for headaches.


>>it also says teh bark contains "CYANIDIN-3-GLUCOSIDE". that word freaks me out, any worries? that was in the White Willow by the by.


Cyanidin-3-glucoside contains no cyanide groups(CN), instead Cyanidin is named because of it's color with UV Spectra absorption.

This is cyanidin (notice there's no CN group), the thing you see above the O in the molecule is a Cl (chloride) ion, that's an image of Cyanidin Chloride.



And a glucoside is the acetal of a sugar. That might not make any sense to some, but I understand it, and probably some others here understand it too.

If you'd like me to go into what that is specifically (since it probably doesn't say too much) then I will, but be warned it's all chemistry.

On a related note Anthocyanin is water soluble chemical (see the similarity of Cyanin and Cyaninidin [and keep in mind it doesn't imply CN]) that is found in vacuoles of the plant cell, and is responsible for a variety of red to blue colors found in plant parts like fruits, leaves and flowers.

So it being a poison cause it's related to cyanide? No. Are these different homologues of cyanin are harmful? I don't know. Probably not. But we ingest anthocyanin whenever we eat plant matter.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: neuro]
    #3435128 - 12/01/04 11:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ok before i go off looking liek a moron make sure i got my definitions correct. also do you have any good recomendations of bookas that have a whack of plant chemistry terms, or a site or a widely sued course.  i really want to learn this shit but get very overwhelmed.  any suggested starting points?  preferably in book form to avoid large class costs :wink:

glucoside-substance containing sugars. http://39.1911encyclopedia.org/G/GL/GLUCOSIDE.htm

acetal-got lost :crazy: http://chemistry2.csudh.edu/rpendarvis/hemiacetal.html

and i would liek you to but i dont want ya too.  if i could understand it then ya, but right now it would be a waste of your time :frown:

also you said that the Anthocyanin is water soluble.  what is acetylsalicylic acid soluble in?  i guess seens as you dotn know and its in all plants no point trying to make it more pure, jsut a curiosity.  too bad i didnt take chemistry in high school when it was free.  would you recomend doing a highschool chem (11/12) course before going to a college or somthing?  ive always wanted to be able to know the makeups and what does what in plants, very cools stuff.

thanks for you explanations neuro, always a great read!

marley, ya i find it a little different feeling.  i personally wouldnt call it a "high" but i dont knwo whats happening to the body so maybe it is.  but i always have hot peppers on subway and what not and drive, so i dotn think it'll be a problem that way :smile:  i like the warm seemingly numbing feeling i get from it being rubbed on skin (face when ya get an itch).  as long as it satys aways from crevices liek eyes and cuts and whatnot its kinda neat.

life.  ya i think i will hold off.  how long did you notice effects?  with both willow and Cordyalis?  i was thinking maybe trying it on a weekend so work doesnt suffer.  would that be enough time, im assuming its takes litle time like asparine?


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InvisibleLifenergy
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3435231 - 12/01/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I use willow for headaches and such, nothing major. If I was in major pain, I would seek a medical professional. Cordyalis, for me, just acts as a mild sedative, and an opiate alternative. I have read, but never experienced its effects as a muscle relaxer. The willow usually is effective for 3-4 hours, but I wouldn't take a whole lot, as with other substances of that nature. It might even be effectively used as a tea. I'm sure someone else here has probably used it before for the relief of pain. You have piqued my interest and I will be researching this further later on this evening. Any new insight gained will be shared with you. Peace.


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3435275 - 12/02/04 12:13 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ok before i go off looking liek a moron make sure i got my definitions correct. also do you have any good recomendations of bookas that have a whack of plant chemistry terms, or a site or a widely sued course. i really want to learn this shit but get very overwhelmed. any suggested starting points? preferably in book form to avoid large class costs

glucoside-substance containing sugars. http://39.1911encyclopedia.org/G/GL/GLUCOSIDE.htm





That link for glucoside is on the money, but it's like reading the most verbose and ill worded piece of shit, and the technical words i'd imagine make it even harder to understand if you're not familiar with them. But yes it is none the less correct.


Quote:

acetal-got lost http://chemistry2.csudh.edu/rpendarvis/hemiacetal.html />



Heh, i bet you did. There's a lot of stuff to know there.

Quote:


also you said that the Anthocyanin is water soluble. what is acetylsalicylic acid soluble in?




Water, at <0.1g/100ml at 23C.

>>would you recomend doing a highschool chem (11/12) course before going to a college or somthing?

You can take general chem in college too.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: neuro]
    #3435752 - 12/02/04 02:28 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

yea peyote rub is good. . i was fortunate to pick up a few bottles when in mexico. a old hippy lady said it was the only thign to help here back.. there is alto of antiinflamatory herbs, and probably soem grow aroudn you.

peace


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: bmarley3434]
    #3437508 - 12/02/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bmarley3434 said:
capacin is a definate high .. it effects your neuros to bump out massive amounts of endorphin . just try to eat a really hot pepper its definately a rush .. if you make an ointment and apply it to your effected area it should work like a charm.




Just keep it away from the genitals. And wash hands VERY well before touching genitals after messing with it. I've had a few bad experiences with putting jalapenos on nachos then taking a piss before washing my hands... if you know what I mean.  :blush:


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OfflineAelph
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3437596 - 12/02/04 03:17 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I know someone that uses Henbane Oil when he gets muscle aches. Swears by it....


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Plants for muscle ache? [Re: Aelph]
    #3439981 - 12/02/04 11:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

like a rub on hendane oil? jsut an oil from the ethno henbane? sounds kinda ify, does he get any of teh henbane "trip"?

i can only imagine hot pepers on teh junk. would not be a fun night...how long does such an unlucky incident last?

oh and today i tried no ibuprofen. normally i take one in the parking lot before work, and one at lunch. im always BEAT at the end of the day. but today, although my legs were in more pain, i was not burnt out and was somewhat energised. nothing else is different. but now i am up, normally im in bed around 6. dunno what is causing it but its something in the ibuprofen that is effecting energy or somthing.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


Edited by kadakuda (12/02/04 11:40 PM)


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