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Offlinethe free thinker
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Ego and defense mechanisms
    #3428394 - 11/30/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 10 days ago)

So i just got out of my psychology class and it got me thinking.  We're learning about the freudian model of personality which includes the id, superego, and the ego.  The id is the pleasure drive, the want to feel good, in spite of what that might imply.  The superego is like your conscience, which wants you to do the right thing.  The tension between these two sides is handled by the ego.  Anyway... so I've had a few ego loss experiences with my trips, and when trying to  consider them using this model, I had the following question.  Does "ego-loss" imply the loss of all three of these parts of the psyche, or ONLY the actual ego itself, leaving the id and the superego.

You know how when you're tripping and you're conflicted about doing something, it is always really hard or impossible to decide what to do, and then it always just turns into a laughing matter?  Like you just don't know what to do?  Maybe that's because the id and superego are both left intact, but there is no actual ego, the side that deals with reality and logic, to evaluate these 2 other subconscious sides of our mind.  It would make sense to me.

I would like to add that I don't think this holds true for ALL trips, chemicals like 5-MeO-DMT or any other complete ego death experience obviously means the demolishment of id, superego, and ego as well.  What I'm referring to is the "common" trip.. where you experience ego-dissolution, but not full on ego-death.

Hope this made sense.. :spliff: :spliff:

What does everyone else think?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: the free thinker]
    #3428399 - 11/30/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 10 days ago)

Ugh.. I wish they'd stop teaching Freud in psych classes...

Sorry, I don't have the energy to explain why right now. Maybe later...


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: the free thinker]
    #3428998 - 11/30/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 9 days ago)

I've learned the Freudian model as well.. and it seems that alot of people overlook a subtle detail: Those three 'egos', are all One. In other words, it's not like someone has three egos that are completely seperate of each other. Imagine a sphere, divided into three smaller spheres inside it... that is how I view the Freudian ego...



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3431787 - 12/01/04 09:52 AM (12 years, 9 days ago)

It seems to me, based on the limited understanding that I have of the Freudian ego (meaning that my knowledge of the subject comes from others discussing it, not from actually studying it), it is rather general, incomplete, and not really an effective model of an actual mind.

I dunno, its just that everytime I hear of it i shake my head and laugh a little bit... :grin:

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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: the free thinker]
    #3431913 - 12/01/04 10:41 AM (12 years, 9 days ago)

Did you truly experience "ego loss" or was it perhaps an evolution or even a mutation of the ego ?
Was not the trip part of reality ?
Just because you "see" things a bit differently now , does not mean there was a loss in any of the three  ,you just became aware of these changes in personality. Thus your ego kinda faded to black due to there was no imbalance between the three at that specific moment in time and reality .
AH what do I know ...? I am as crazy as loon  :rolleyes:


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Offlinethe free thinker
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: tripndicular]
    #3432428 - 12/01/04 01:26 PM (12 years, 9 days ago)

tripndicular, yes I've experienced true ego loss.  I tried to clarify what I was talking about in concern with the id and supergo remaining intact, I was talking about a normal "trip" where your ego is dissolved, but not DESTROYED. 

Skorpivo, thanks for your post.  It makes a lot more sense now to think that they are all just seperate parts of the whole.  So I guess they all get dissolved during a trip... its just an easier way of explaining the facets of the ego i suppose.

Quote:

tripndicular said:

AH what do I know ...? I am as crazy as loon  :rolleyes:




right back at cha :smile:


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Offlinebmarley3434
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: the free thinker]
    #3432451 - 12/01/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 9 days ago)

the way i see it the ego is the body .. the only way to dissolve the ego completely while tripping is if you leave your body completely(manifest your conciousness fully on the other side). if not you still are clinging to your ego or else there would be no you .


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OfflineEvil_Cure
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: bmarley3434]
    #3436930 - 12/02/04 01:02 PM (12 years, 8 days ago)

Ok, here is my view, the terms id, ego and super ego ar flawed due to bad translation, a different vertion is the ego or beast, self and superself. As you say id/beast is our lust (sex, food exc.) or the 'devil' on our shoulder. Superself is our moral beliefs, the 'angel on the outher soulder. The self is our 'logic' that decides our concious actions waying up our lusts and beliefs.

Now all three are part of our concious selves that make us belive we are sepperated from each outher, it is the grand ego that we all must see beyond, in outher words the beast makes us selfish, the superself makes us bigoted and the self tells us that being a selfish bigot is right.... (ugg)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: Evil_Cure]
    #3437079 - 12/02/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 8 days ago)

I like this question and how the wording of it sets me to looking for correspondences:

the id relates to the instinctual urges i.e. attract and flee
(in immaterial states these are very present)

the super-ego relates to memory and internal judgement consensus
(in immaterial states this is fragmented and often can appear as a visitor, the lady, one's teacher, god etc.)

the ego is the sequence of masks smoothly projected one after another created in life by conditioning.
(in immaterial states it is weakened due to sequence disruption, i.e. slow fadeout, and intense stacking of frames which normally are clear triggers for the next mask flipping)


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OfflineSp0re
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Re: Ego and defense mechanisms [Re: the free thinker]
    #5855936 - 07/13/06 10:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

whoa you wrote this two years or so ago.

well, you might find this article of some intrist?

drhyatt.net/power.html    :smile:    happy journeys


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