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OfflineNomad
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Registered: 04/30/02
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Awareness vs. Daydreaming
    #3426701 - 11/30/04 05:55 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, folks, what's up with all that aggressive pushing of the awareness practice?

Am I the only one around who likes to daydream a lot, and considers that a very spiritual practice?

Isn't there in every religion on earth a spiritual practice which is called contemplation, and isn't daydreaming the natural, and therefore superior, type of contemplation? Provided it is daydreaming about a cool, uplifting, awe-inspiring spiritual subject?

"I often say that the now is not large enough for me. There's so much more to life than being present. What about the truth council in South Africa, where they spent three years, testimony after testimony, talking about the atrocities of the past? Is that being in the now, is that being present? What about the children ten generations from now, screaming out at us, hey you guys and girls, stop being so present and in the now, what about us? Why weren't you thinking about us in the future? So really what I'm after is a degree of intelligence, not peace. Freedom, not happiness." - Alan Clements


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3426858 - 11/30/04 07:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think that your pro-daydreaming opinion is slightly at odds with your chosen quote... unless by daydreaming you mean thinking about world affairs and politics?
:confused:


--------------------
Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me


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OfflineNomad
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Registered: 04/30/02
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: lovelight]
    #3426928 - 11/30/04 09:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Why not? Daydream about anything which gives you motivation and inspiration. This may include daydreaming about the state of the world. You know, part of the reason why one should walk the path is to make a difference. So to anyone who is honestly trying to make spiritual progress, watching the news should make him feel energized, not depressed - because he/she is not the guy/girl who contributes to all this shit. We are on the good side. Nothing to be afraid of there.

But here's another quote, if you like it better.

"For example, how often I would hear about being present without thought. Where would we be today if Einstein didn?t daydream? The whole Theory of Relativity came from his active imagination, with letting his mind just wander into these phantasmagorical places of dream and fantasy. And so my encouragement today with people is Let go!" - Alan Clements


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OfflineNomad
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Registered: 04/30/02
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3426998 - 11/30/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

... however, reading my original post again, I agree that the quote doesn't make sense at all and is completely out of context. But anyone who is sufficiently in the now should be able to treat the second part of the post as unrelated to the first - I mean, why are you clinging to the stuff you read two seconds ago? It's gone! YOU ARE LIVING IN THE PAST!!

Just kidding. This also reminds me of something else. How on earth do all you in-the-now-people manage to reconcile smoking weed with being present? That drug seems to be more on the contemplative side of things, right?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3427200 - 11/30/04 11:39 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

both soft and centered are required.
daydreaming and sleeping and dreaming are soft - like refuges into mother.
centered mind is different and provides immediate confirmation that work is being done as does physical excercise. (perhaps that is father)

little fuss is made about the benefits of just letting go ( I think it is very fundamental and important) , but lots of fuss is made about the benefits of physical excercise, because it is avoided yet known to be a healthy direction.

perhaps that sounds familiar.
anyway both are required, concentration without letting go is like a pushup without the let down, just push (and then what - strain?).
and daydreaming without concentration is no push at all (like a basking beauty with no inclination to procreate).


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3427430 - 11/30/04 01:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nomad said:Isn't there in every religion on earth a spiritual practice which is called contemplation, and isn't daydreaming the natural, and therefore superior, type of contemplation? Provided it is daydreaming about a cool, uplifting, awe-inspiring spiritual subject?




The problem with daydreaming is that it is usually subconscious. My therapist says that thinking is like an addiction. Non-productive thinking is fruitless and usually leads to very unhappy people. I understand what you mean about how we have the natural ability to contemplate without even realizing it, but just know that the line between productive daydreaming and ADD isn't so clear. However, you could set aside an amount of time, devote it to a daydreaming stream of consciousness, and keep a base idea for when you get too carried away, and actually improve your cognitive thinking skills.

Think about it this way, jogging helps maintain physical condition, but your top speed will only increase if you practice sprints (or plyometrics, for those of you who use psychadelics). You need that focus and purpose to get anything out of your daydreams.


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3427479 - 11/30/04 01:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I love daydreaming. What a gift to be able to go anywhere where anything can happen. However, you have to pick some of them now and again and make them become reality. I do both! What are we here for if not to make dreams come true?

Like in that song gomp posted. Something about bringing dreams to earth.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3427629 - 11/30/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Story Time.....

I remember ditching class in Jr. High to handg out in the library on a snowy Chicagoland day to day dream. I dreamt of being a cali surfer girl. I thought there was a mistake. You see, I should've been born on the beach and I was suppose to be surfing my life away in the endless summer.

My bedroom was adorned with posters of the islands and palm plants. How did I end up in this stick barren winter freez fuck of an ugly place with no sea to consume me?

I dreamed of living in sun bronzed skin of palm lined lands with the raor of the surf as backround music for life.

By my 25th year, I quit dreaming and moved to the Virgin Islands. My dream became reality. I also lived Kauai Hi. I did it, I made that dream come true.

There wasn't much for surf in the VI, but there was great wind for windsurfing and I did get pretty good at that. For the first year I just watched the immortals who walked on water, vicarioulsy living the rush through them.

One day, I got up and grabbed some gear I had access too and went for it. To know the feeling for real when I got the hang of it was insane. The sound of the wind snapping the sail full coming around a jibe turn. To share the ride with eagle rays following my every move. To have the force of the wind slam me in to the water. The sound of the light chop lapping under my board when on a plane.

The adrenaline never pumped so hard. Day dreaming about it wasn't even close to the real thing. Ya gotta use your dreams just as catalysts to send you into the real thing.

My first 3 months on that island were SURREAL. It was dreamy and real all at the same time.

After weeks of no wind, they would kick up again. The feeling was like being on heightened alert, like being a hunter who smelled its prey. It was a mad scramble to get out of work or get to gear and get out there and fly with the wind. Only you were the potential prey, you against the elements and if you felt them wrong and did not become one with them, you were fucked and got the piss beat out of you. LOL

Day dreaming doesn't cover all of that! Ya gotta live a good handful of your dreams while your here.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3427647 - 11/30/04 02:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I sense a general misunderstanding of what awareness is, and what it means to stay present and in the now. :wink:

It has more to do with having one's center in their being, rather than their mind. The mind fragments, distorts, and obstructs awareness and one's being when one's center is placed in it.

Essentially, being is the total of one's experience in the moment, as the signals come in from our senses, before awareness is filtered by the mind. This is excellent because one is more in tune with the present moment, its experience, and more vibrant details. The moment is more profound and more complete, more cosmic, more like life, more like home. :grin:

When one's center is in mind, one's present experience is more incomplete, more dependant on one's thoughts and one's emotion-backed demands. One's sense of identity, which with a center in being would simply be the pure awareness and the total of one's experience, is derived from one's thoughts, one's actions, and one's situation in life, which usually involves something from the dead past or the imagined future. As one's awareness is being filtered through the complex processes and network of the mind before one "feels one's awareness or experience", so to speak, it is left fragmentalized, incomplete, and often, basically g-o-n-e. :wink:

Being centered in being or being aware of the moment does not prevent one from contemplating, planning actions for the future, or using the mind. It is about being conscious before thought, action, and mind, not after, piecing together what is left. This way the mind can not project over your being or obstruct your experience of it. The mind cannot create a false sense of who you are or what you are experiencing as it is not needed for an identification of self.

I contend that existing before the mind in the moment will actually increase your ability to consciously contemplate and day dream freely and on a much higher degree of experience as your mind is not running unnecessarily. The majority of the thought processes that are clutter and essentially useless are inactive and are no longer A.) Seperating oneself from your being in the present moment, and B.) Wasting valuable awareness and energy for no justifiable purpose. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3427648 - 11/30/04 02:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

jiggy;
great new graphics
and non animated is a huge improvement to the readability
you had majic dreams.
good work.


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OfflineLiquid_Dimension
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3427787 - 11/30/04 02:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I daydream way too much,even at work.I'm a package handler at fedex and I load up trucks.Daydreaming almost got me fired yesterday,I have to check ALL THE FUCKING BOXES to see if they belong in the truck through the zip codes.So thats 1,500-2,000 boxes they tell me to check.But I never really check all of them,bah.Anyway I got caught not checking some (which wasnt the first time this has happened)I love to daydream and let my mind wander,It's hard to stop it since I've been doing this all my life.Well Guess I'll have to start controlling my daydreaming If I want to keep my job.Damn this will be hard. :mad:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3427862 - 11/30/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
jiggy;
great new graphics
and non animated is a huge improvement to the readability
you had majic dreams.
good work.




Thanks! :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Nomad]
    #3428428 - 11/30/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nomad said:Daydream about anything which gives you motivation and inspiration. This may include daydreaming about the state of the world. You know, part of the reason why one should walk the path is to make a difference. So to anyone who is honestly trying to make spiritual progress, watching the news should make him feel energized, not depressed - because he/she is not the guy/girl who contributes to all this shit.




I very much agree with most of what you said - I figured it was what you were trying to say with your initial combination of thoughts and the clements quote. However, if the 'guy/girl' you are speaking of are your average person, then they do contribute to 'all this shit'. Although I'm sure your actions do not compare to a politician for example, we are all guilty of needless consumption, polluting, destroying, etc.
But full support for day dreaming, especially dreaming that includes the whole world, lets make these dreams reality  :heart:


--------------------
Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: lovelight]
    #3430950 - 12/01/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

daydreaming is all cool and everything, and yet, it's like your mind is a monkey jumping around all over the place and pooing everywhere. that's what daydreaming is, a pooing, untrained monkey. it can be likened to masturbation, which feels great at the time, and of course you shouldn't be ashamed to masturbate and yadda yadda yadda, but what's the good of masturbating? I mean, does it get anything accomplished? and if we assume getting things accomplished is, you know, desirable and good, then shouldn't we use the time we spent masturbating to instead do something constructive, like designing new vibrators or something?

and that's the thing about daydreaming. I mean, visualizing goals is great, but then you have to stop visualizing and start actualizing. If you just keep visualizing, then... well, fine, go for it. I won't stop you. I'll be too busy masturbating. masturbating to pictures of pooing monkeys, that is.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3433451 - 12/01/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

personally i find day dreaming a waste of time. it is uncontrolled and basically yes mental masturbation. for a long time i spent my whole life in a day dream and i regret that now. Being aware of the now for me, at this moment, is a far more satisfying and uplifting experience. This is the amazing world we live in... wow wow wow.

Now daydreaming is one thing, and controlled visualization , or guided meditation, or dreaming dreaming are different things.

not that i dont enjoy daydreaming, but after 17 years of it i can say it is not a very productive activity, and its not as healthy. for me. Dreaming dreaming and lucid dreaming are far more amazing ways to explore the internal realms, and if you want to enjoy 'daydreaming' than an actual controlled experience of say 15 minuites or so in a dark quite room exploring a visualized world or whatever is way more fun and less counter productive than just spacing out in class.

Also, day dreaming throughout your day can easily get you killed. step into a manhole, onto the street in front of a car, dont hear that guy coming up behind you, dont notice the light turning red, the list goes on, day dreaming leads to mishaps.

awareness on the other hand can easily save your life.

"So really what I'm after is a degree of intelligence, not peace. Freedom, not happiness." - Alan Clements "

interesting. personally, i would rather have peace than intelligence and happiness than freedom.

assuming they dont both rely on each other. i cant be happy without freedom, but if i had the option of being blissfull and enslaved or free to do whatever i wanted but miserable, the first option would obviously be better.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Awareness vs. Daydreaming [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3435807 - 12/02/04 02:41 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
"So really what I'm after is a degree of intelligence, not peace. Freedom, not happiness." - Alan Clements "

interesting. personally, i would rather have peace than intelligence and happiness than freedom.




hmm, i'd have to side with Alan on this one.


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