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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Please explain
    #3423567 - 11/29/04 05:13 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I have some wisdom to share

Can you explain how you feel about this concept?




"To be first is to be last"

or

"To be an effective leader is to be the servant"

or

" To serve is to lead "





All three are the same thing

What does it mean to you? :smile:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3423574 - 11/29/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

You been reading old Lao Tzu...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Please explain [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3423580 - 11/29/04 05:15 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

No

This can be found in the words of Jesus

And my experience


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Offlinethe_phoenix
Stranger

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3423848 - 11/29/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

A true leader's main goal is to serve his people? If he considers himself to be above them, to be "first", then he is a false leader and, in this sense, "last"?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3423872 - 11/29/04 06:25 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I say, a true leader leads others to lead themselves and instead of serving them, he teaches them how to serve themselves. Then, there is no need for a leader and everyone can be equal co-creators in a new game.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day and becomes dependent on the giver of fish to survive. Teach him how to fish and he eats forever no longer beleiving or feeling he needs the fish giver.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Please explain [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3423896 - 11/29/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

You have missed the point

You can not teach others to lead until you learn to be a leader.
And the best leader is last in the sense of being a servant.

I can not teach a person to fish unless I first fish. I learned from someone and the minute I think I now longer need to be taught I no longer am a leader

As soon as you think you can handle things on your own you are no longer a leader

A good leader is always looking to be taught and is always a servant to others and never says to himself he is finished learning.

The moment you become unteachable then you lose you leadership.

A good leader is always knowing that he has nothing and has everything to learn


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3423931 - 11/29/04 06:45 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
You have missed the point

You can not teach others to lead until you learn to be a leader.
And the best leader is last in the sense of being a servant.

I can not teach a person to fish unless I first fish. I learned from someone and the minute I think I now longer need to be taught I no longer am a leader

As soon as you think you can handle things on your own you are no longer a leader

A good leader is always looking to be taught and is always a servant to others and never says to himself he is finished learning.

The moment you become unteachable then you lose you leadership.

A good leader is always knowing that he has nothing and has everything to learn




That made no sense what so ever. I guess Jesus was wrong when he said "teach a man to fish he eats for a day, teach him how to fish he eats forever". I guess jesus was a know it all who will come in last the way you see it.

His phrase "he who is first shall be last" is related to GREED.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Please explain [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3423992 - 11/29/04 07:00 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

LOL

Your lost aren't you

It makes no sense to you for a reason. You should find the reason.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Anonymous

Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3424142 - 11/29/04 07:32 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I think these concepts are generally true, in the sense that leading is a service. When you lead a group of people, either by teaching them or showing them something or even physically leading and looking out for them, you're providing a service to them.

However I have a problem with the third statement. I would say that "To lead is to serve" is always true, but "To serve is to lead" is not always true.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3424155 - 11/29/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

How can I be lost with such a shepard as he?

The first in line being last has to do with GREED and beleifs of lack. (see sorcerer post)

Leading is tied into the teaching a man how to fish quote. Contrary to popular beleif, Jesus did not DIG the idea of following authorities other then the self. he was about teaching people to become self led.

I know it makes egoic power trippers feel "special" to be in service to their fellow man. Ask yourself why you do the work you do FN. is it so you can get right with God and get into Heaven?

I think you need to think about the he who is first shall be last quote in a new light.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3424156 - 11/29/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

"show it, don't dean it"
-unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Please explain [Re: Gomp]
    #3424184 - 11/29/04 07:38 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

""but "To serve is to lead" is not always true. ""

could you give an example where that is 'not true'?
:confused: :thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Please explain [Re: Gomp]
    #3424225 - 11/29/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

They don't get it

And even if I explain they will still not get it

But I may be forced to try

Least I may be accused of not explaining


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Anonymous

Re: Please explain [Re: Gomp]
    #3424236 - 11/29/04 07:47 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Any employee at a company, who doesn't manage people "under" himself, serves but doesn't lead.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Please explain [Re: ]
    #3424263 - 11/29/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

would the employee not lead himself? at lest his body?  :confused:
:grin: :thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (11/29/04 07:52 PM)


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Offlineentiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
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Re: Please explain [Re: Gomp]
    #3425079 - 11/29/04 10:12 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

we both serve and lead.

oh, and leading is servitude, yes.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Please explain [Re: entiformatie]
    #3425433 - 11/29/04 11:30 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

one is one.

wether you lead or serve it tends not to matter.

one who leads can serve the community by his good leadership.

one who serves the community, say a smithy, is also leading by example... the people have a need that he can fulfill. so he does, he fulfills that need... they must come to him and seek his guidance and wares on the subject.... he is leading in his servitude of the people.

"lead" is both a title and an action.

many people confuse the title with the action, though they are extremely similar, and obviously related.

"he is a leader" could mean, that he is a servant of the people, they come to him and he admonishes himself, and his knowledge to them.

jesus was a servant. he attempted to lead people to discover there true natures and to put aside the proud and greedy paths that give other people control over their desires and suffering.

!


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Please explain [Re: Todcasil]
    #3426102 - 11/30/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I think I see what fucknuckle means.

You can't lead unless you have been a servant, or at least you must know what it's like to be a servant. 

You have to know the minds of those whom you wish to have follow you.  If most of those who might follow you are "followers", how can you be a leader if you don't know what it takes to be a follower?

I have to liken this to my law practice...

I have had to build my practice up from the ground.  How can I know what to tell the people who work under me if I don't know what it takes to work under me?

How do I know what it's like to work as an underling if I have never worked as an underling?

Okay, forget me. 

What about those politicians (Kerry rings a bell) who have never had it rough?  How does someone like that know what the average person is thinking when the average person usually eats with a plastic fork rather than a golden spoon?

One has to have been in the trenches to know how to build highways. 

Okay, I'm going to bed.  I don't think I am making sense any more and I apologize for inflicting my sleep deficit upon the likes of you.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleCherryBomM
Yoga Gypsy
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Registered: 12/27/98
Posts: 11,097
Loc: Ontario
Re: Please explain [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3432015 - 12/01/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
You been reading old Lao Tzu...




Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
No

This can be found in the words of Jesus

And my experience




As a student of reincarnation, I've been taught that Jesus and Lao Tzu were one of the same.

You're both right in theory.  :wink:


--------------------


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Please explain [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3432077 - 12/01/04 11:38 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
I have some wisdom to share

Can you explain how you feel about this concept?




"To be first is to be last"

or

"To be an effective leader is to be the servant"

or

" To serve is to lead "





All three are the same thing

What does it mean to you? :smile:




To appreciate being first one must "know" what it is to be last .
To be an effective leader ... one must "know" how to follow .
To serve others leads you to understanding the needs of others .

Contemplate these

With no darkness there can be no light .
With no evil there can be no good .
With no devil there can be no God .

Balance is the key to all life as we know it , to truly comprhend it one must be able to see it from both sides of the coin so to say .


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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