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Invisiblederx
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overlay? (PICTURES ADDED) 11-29-04 * 1
    #3413787 - 11/26/04 10:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Seems the last 5 casings I've made all pin horribly and from the sides only. The casings begin pretty even and look beautiful with a lot of rhizo growth. All pinning strategies are used. Pinning usually happens after 14-18 days from being introcued to the fruiting chamber. In this long ass time the mycelium colonizes the casing layer, then begins to overlay. I'm using a marthalike greenhouse with a cool mist and ultra sonic, all on timers. Conditions are ideal, so O2 exchange/humidity/light is not a problem. So far this has all been under the B+ strain, I have some thai KS about ready to case soon. Anyone know what I can do to stop this or do you think its strain specific?


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better living through chemistry

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it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


Edited by derx (11/29/04 07:28 PM)


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Offlineliveby
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3413805 - 11/26/04 10:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

okay , i know for a fact that the reason for them pinning from the sides is because its to dry in the middle so wet the casing some more !


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Offlinelesstutrey
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Re: overlay? [Re: liveby]
    #3414572 - 11/27/04 01:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

sounds like my strain selections :o KSSS and B+. i got 2 KSSS that 100% colonized and waiting for a couple more to catch up. got some later made ones that i plan on casing with. Liquid has been made with B+ and those are incubating as well(b+ jars). I wish you luck. and yes, sounds like maybe its dry in the middle, dunk the bastard after a flush or something and recase. Thats my personal plan...


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Offlineazurescens
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Re: overlay? [Re: lesstutrey]
    #3414735 - 11/27/04 02:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'll agree with 'liveby'..although I shall leave out the phrase 'I know for a fact', but assuming that your conditions are ideal then it is one of two possibilities:the strain or your casing is too dry in the middle OR(I know this is 3) you have light coming in thru the sides of your casings. Keep us posted.


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Invisiblederx
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Re: overlay? [Re: azurescens]
    #3414758 - 11/27/04 02:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

im not overly concerned with the side pinning.  the side pinning is due to the fact the top surface gets overlayed because it takes at least 14 days until pinning starts.  I dont believe the middles to be dry but we will see.  Those were just myfirst casings.  My newest creation is looking great, even, all rhizo growth into the air, and if you look at it with the right light you can see tons of micro droplets of water on it. :smile:


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3414854 - 11/27/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Seems the last 5 casings I've made all pin horribly and from the sides only.

Do you add anything to your casing to adjust the pH? Sometimes, overzealous application of lime can push the pH so high that the mycelium will do anything to get away from the casing. This manifests as fruiting along the edges only. :mushroom2:


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Invisiblesoochi
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3415397 - 11/27/04 11:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

maybe you should try to induce pinning earlier, I usually do it just as you begin to see spikes of myc coming up through the top layer of the casing, I don't wait until it colonizes the layer, then you're asking for overlay, you must account for the growth momentum of the myc. For those culinarians out there think of it like carry over cooking time :grin:


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: overlay? [Re: soochi]
    #3415613 - 11/27/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

First off this has nothing to do with the strain. That in no way affects wether your casing pins evenly. This is more than likely do to overlay or incorrect casing procedure. What material are you using for the casings??? I agree with what diploid said and that is why i bring up what kind of casing material you are looking for.


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"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Invisiblederx
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Re: overlay? [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #3415662 - 11/27/04 01:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm using 50/50 + peat/verm, oyster shells + hydrated lime. I've made some without the lime and some with the lime. That made no difference. I first would incubate the casings for a few days after casing them. This is what I thought the problem was so my latest I cased it and placed it into the fruiting chamber right away. I don't believe the middle to be any more dry/wet than the outsides. The only thing the outsides may get extra is the condensation that builds up on the edges. Since these 3 casings finally started pinning(from the sides) i pulled them out of their containers so the fruits could grow without barriers. That is fine to do right?


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3415676 - 11/27/04 01:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

How are these being cased. I wouldn't suggest that you take them out of the tupperware(im assuming thats what your using) container. Have you tested the PH level in your casing materials?? Might be a good idea to go down to a nursery or hydro store and get some strips there pretty cheap.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Invisiblederx
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Re: overlay? [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #3415700 - 11/27/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

they were cased in a smaller 6x4 container. I already removed them with ease and no damage to the casing. I bought a PH meter at home depot(went to 5 stores to find one) and it sucks. Ph barely changes in any solution (bleach, soda). It's just so damn hard to find garden type supplies this time of year.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3416144 - 11/27/04 04:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

pet shops with aquarium department often have goof = GOOD (EDITED) :laugh: ph meters not too expensive either.

Read today (am searching for the source dont know if it was shroomerys) that overlay causes sidepins and that overlay often is caused by either too humid and/or too long in incubator. Then the thick mat at top stops water of getting down in casing.

Maybe earlier coldshock and in fruitroom?


--------------------


Edited by MushroomFriend (11/27/04 05:29 PM)


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: overlay? [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3416222 - 11/27/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If you could get us a picture it would be very helpful in determining your problem.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Invisiblederx
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Re: overlay? [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #3416358 - 11/27/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

is it true overlay is from too much humidity?


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3416406 - 11/27/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post3351758

Do a search on +humidity +overlay, it seems true, that too high RH can help causing overlay....


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: overlay? [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3416836 - 11/27/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yup your rightm too high a humidity can give you overlay, although i keep my casings at 100% humididty all the time and have no problems at all with overlay.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: overlay? [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #3416844 - 11/27/04 07:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I was thinking also that humidity inside teh casing can play a role?
Maybe together with too long vegatative growth.. Ash I dont know just read some things....


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: overlay? [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3418077 - 11/28/04 02:09 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ok I know to much humidity is not a cause of overlay although direct misting can "mat" your myc and lead to overlay. Now you do realize myc thrives in an "nearly saturated" environment (mushrooms :wink: ) Also peat based can be used without any buffers, really they will be contam prone and may not pin as well but understand the myc is traveling thru this casing not consuming it now what do you consider to be an appropriate amount of hydrated lime if too much was added then as some have suggested already it would be not a good thing BUT since you said you've tried it both ways (with and without hydrated lime) that would lead me to believe IF all parameters are indeed optimum and you stated that the entire surface is covered with myc or as how you stated it overlayed conditions (more than likely not) then they are pinning so the parameters are most likely within fruiting range which would mean that it is a casing issue I have a tendency to think on the dry side also is that casing "glistening" with moisture like this?



It can also be a compound problem maybe too dry when no buffer was used or too much hydrated lime. When using peat based casings 1tsp. hydrated lime (short term buffer) is the limit per qt. of casing to this you can also add a long term buffer at 1tsp.-1tbs. per qt. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
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Invisiblederx
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Re: overlay? [Re: hyphae]
    #3418098 - 11/28/04 02:16 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hyphae, I'm using a martha type greenhouse with 2 humidifiers. the casing is glistening perfect. IMO it almost looks too wet, but the beads of water still pretty small. I wish i had a digi camera. I do use a small teaspoon amount of hydrated lime and just sprinkle some oyster shells into the mix. I use a caliber 2 hygrometer and the RH is always in the 90's usually 99 for a while because of the ultra sonic but drops back down to low 90's until it runs again. Heat is low 70's, ususally 71 or 72 F. Light cycle is 12 on 12 off. I do not mist my casings at all, they seem to be near saturation from the humidifier. This newest casing looks beautiful, exactly like the one you just showed only a tiny bit more colonized and TONS of rhizo everywhere! I'm really looking up to this casing, I will get a picture tommorow to show you.

If you think humidity is a problem, I am willing to shell out the 140 to Lana for one of her humidity/temp controllers to get the humidity to a constant 95.


--------------------
better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: overlay? [Re: derx]
    #3418196 - 11/28/04 02:52 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No don't shell out any more money, sounds like RH is perfect. Only other suggestion would be initiating immediately after casing, B+ isn't known to be a real aggressive colonizer but substrains can have alot of variance. If you get a chance look between the tray and the casing if it's too wet there will be water buildup :wink: GL derx


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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