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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Reflection
    #3412288 - 11/26/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Moon above water.
Sit in solitude.



If waters are placid, the moon will be mirrored perfectly. If we still ourselves, we can mirror the divine perfectly. But if we engage solely in the frenetic activities of our daily involvements, if we seek to impose our own schemes on the natural order, and if we allow ourselves to become absorbed in self-centered views, the surface of our waters becomes turbulent. Then we cannot be receptive to Tao.

There is no effort that we can make to still ourselves. True stillness comes naturally from moments of solitude where we allow our minds to settle. Just as water seeks its own level, the mind will gravitate toward the holy. Muddy water will become clear if allowed to stand undisturbed, and so too will the mind become clear if it is allowed to be still.

Neither the water nor the moon make any effort to achieve a reflection. In the same way, meditation will be natural and immediate.










--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Reflection [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3412546 - 11/26/04 03:50 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

If waters are placid, the moon will be mirrored perfectly




not quite, but I catch your flow.. I really like how you compare this to our 'ourselves'!


Quote:

There is no effort that we can make to still ourselves. True stillness comes naturally from moments of solitude where we allow our minds to settle.




Hmm, not sure man, If we ALLOW our minds to settle did we not put some effort to allow this to happen, or are you saying some higher power 'comes in' and stills us.. hmm

Quote:

Neither the water nor the moon make any effort to achieve a reflection. In the same way, meditation will be natural and immediate.



They make no effort because they do not have a consciousness. Meditation MAY be natural, but it is far from spontaneous or easily achievable. The moon reflects because it is the nature of the planet. Do we meditate because it is the nature of humans? If so why doesn't everyone meditate?


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Reflection [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3412640 - 11/26/04 04:24 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

he is saying that underneath the waves is always still water

once we release our attachment to the surface (actions/thoughts)

stillness is natural - and not an action at all


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Reflection [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3412661 - 11/26/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Hmm, not sure man, If we ALLOW our minds to settle did we not put some effort to allow this to happen, or are you saying some higher power 'comes in' and stills us.. hmm

The differentiation is between flow and effort. Effort is flow with emotion, which implies the action is arising out of resistance to what is. Flow stems from acceptance and surrender to what is. One is of calmness and serenity, the other is of noise and turbulence.


They make no effort because they do not have a consciousness.

Does simply having a consciousness necessitate effort?

Meditation MAY be natural

Is it any less natural than negativity, or any other psychic pollutant? While we're at it, is negativity itself, i.e., suffering, directly natural, or conceptually-created? Meditation is stillness. Stillness has primacy to man-made conceptualizations of negativity.

it is far from spontaneous or easily achievable.

For you, or for everybody that exists on this planet? What determines the difficulty in being Still, and what is it directly proportionate to?

why doesn't everyone meditate?

Who's to say that everyone does not meditate? Many may not, but many also certainly do meditate.
So a more accurate question would be:
How come some people do not practice meditation?

The answer to that can be traced to a myriad of reasons and causes, but I will list one broad root:
Society and the egoic-intricacies of such.

:smile:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Reflection [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3414177 - 11/27/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 13 days ago)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
As I raise my fist, so does the divine. I see myself and I strike, and I am hit, but I don't stop. More, more, more! The storm propels me upward and I finally break free from my watery tomb. I pierce the water's surface and see the sky for the first time! Now all I must do is rise, against gravity, and keep on going higher. The water is boiling, and if I fall back down it will burn me. From the ashes the phoenix rises. Death doesn't scare me, but water does. I will not fall for I am of the air: the formless cannot be struck down.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Reflection [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3415102 - 11/27/04 06:30 AM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I think everyone DOES meditate in a way, yes informally and yes without  techinque, but haven't you ever just stared into space, not a thought in mind? And held that moment, losing track of time and place? Having let your mind wander, have you ever regained it, not knowing where it had been? Looking deep in thought, have you been asked "what are you thinking about?" only to realise the truth is "nothing"?
:confused:

Isn't this meditation at its most basic? Could this mean meditation IS a natural, only dormant process?
Penny for your thoughts if any! hehe  :smile:


--------------------
Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me


Edited by lovelight (11/27/04 06:37 AM)


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Reflection [Re: lovelight]
    #3415507 - 11/27/04 12:54 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

I think everyone DOES meditate in a way, yes informally and yes without techinque, but haven't you ever just stared into space, not a thought in mind? And held that moment, losing track of time and place? Having let your mind wander, have you ever regained it, not knowing where it had been? Looking deep in thought, have you been asked "what are you thinking about?" only to realise the truth is "nothing"?
~
From Anunda:

Have you ever been sitting quietly somewhere and suddenly come back to the realisation that time has passed and you don't know where you've been ..?

Nor have you any idea of what went on in that time .. ?
Nor were you aware of your own breath nor your own heartbeat ...
Yet you were fully awake and conscious ... not asleep nor unconscious ...

This is the Absolute .. this is the spinning stillness of the void/vastness/no-thing .. the experience of the "mind of God".

It is beyond the experience of OM ..
because OM is the echo of the first manifestation

~

So yes, when you relax completely, there is total silence. No thought enters the mind, no problems arise from the body, no memories grip the spirit. This overwhelming sense of tranquility is really what meditation is all about. The neutral stillness of the mind renews the tired soul, and this is regeneration.

Even if you don't follow a formal meditation program, it is good to sit quietly for a little while each day. This form of rest should be as regular as sleeping each day. If you can sit still and just relax completely, you are actually meditating. All the various forms of complicated techniques and visualizations exist because people can't bring themselves to this very simple state of relaxation. Their minds are constantly racing, their bodies are out of balance, and the worries of the day weigh heavily upon them. They cannot let go, so they need a formal routine to follow. But if you can simply sit down and empty yourself, you will experience a wonderful silence and a deep, satisfying sense of peace.

One should try to return to a relaxed state on a regular and periodic basis. The simple reason for relaxation is that it renews us, purifies us, and leaves us with a profound feeling of serenity. It is not a ritual. It is not a religious obligation. It is a wonderful state away from problems. In it, we are poised in our natural state.




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: Reflection [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3418737 - 11/28/04 08:54 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Thanks for the link. I'm going outside to watch the moon and stars.

peace scorpivo  :smile:


Edited by lovelight (11/28/04 09:03 AM)


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Offlinekrin
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Re: Reflection [Re: lovelight]
    #3418778 - 11/28/04 09:40 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

i find the first step is completely physical,slow down all of your normal actions,whatever your doing simply slow down.
just doing this alone makes moment to moment living so much richer.
i dont think stillness of mind is natural,we are animals,we are supposed to be on the edge,fidgeting nervous,gathering,fighting,fucking.
tranquility is like some alien frequency u stumble upon (or in this case knowingly invite)
its difficult to hold on to because our physical basic needs and subconscious mental needs are always nagging at us to get active.
patience and imagination are things that must be exercised in order for them to become your part of your nature,they are most precious


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Reflection [Re: krin]
    #3422261 - 11/29/04 08:16 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

krin said:
i find the first step is completely physical,slow down all of your normal actions,whatever your doing simply slow down.
just doing this alone makes moment to moment living so much richer.




While your proposal is solid, slowing down one's actions so that one has a chance to appreciate them more, I do not see how this first step is completely physical. What device used by human beings controls the actions of the physical body and determines their rate of action? Not only that, but which device used by human beings allows them to appreciate the richness of the moment-to-moment living? Why, the mind, of course. :grin:

Quote:


i dont think stillness of mind is natural




Two sentences ago you just proposed the first step towards stillness of mind and its benefits in increasing one's moment-to-moment experience.

Quote:


,we are animals,we are supposed to be on the edge,fidgeting nervous,gathering,fighting,fucking.




You completely reduce our level of being to that of animals while competely ignoring the fact that we have a mind and are capable of complex thought processes, and that we are greatly aware. The presence of mind itself suggests most authoritatively that we are much more than simple animals living out basic survival instincts, and that we are capable of a higher consciousness.

Quote:


tranquility is like some alien frequency u stumble upon (or in this case knowingly invite)




Tranquillity is like a natural state of mind for someone whoplaces their center of awareness and their identity in being, which exists beyond the mind. It involves an ultimate acceptance of reality and its principles, and the pure perfection and divinity of the here and now moment and the aware experience.

Quote:


its difficult to hold on to because our physical basic needs and subconscious mental needs are always nagging at us to get active.




Actually, it is only difficult to hold onto when someone is mentally identifying with these needs as a part of who they are. Basic needs and action do not in any way seperate one from a state of tranquillity and a center of awareness placed in Being. Someone can completely enjoy eating a meal in the here and now moment without having the mind seperating, judging, and pushing around the experience of doing so. A properly programmed and operating mind is far different than one that saps awareness and destroys our present experience.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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