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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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OfflineMushroomFriend
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What a night!
    #3411322 - 11/26/04 07:34 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Hello there,

Ow what a mess I made. What did I do? Well, I my syringes arrived I had some rye soaked it was full moon so what the heck, start a new grow!

I did:
- soak 1 kilo rye 24 hours
- simmer it 45 minutes

Here I noticed about 50% of rye was burst, me paranoid doing search on Shroomery. Burst can cause too humid jars I read.
Fuck!
I rinsed and drained and drained and wiped some of with a towel.

After I PC-ed the jars what did I see? Drye rye against the "windows". Fuck!

Also I did not have enough jars! Half a kilo wasnt simmered yet so I thought I simmer this without letting it burst.
This batch 25% was burst but other 25% wasnt swollen at all! SO 50% was nice swollen rye.

After PC-ing this it seemd dry as well. I had lids on with a polyfill stuffed hole, with alufoil over that.

I also made one PF cake just for the sake of testing the 2-1-1 formula.

I made a 100ML karojar (in a 150 cc jar) and put 2cc of GT sporewater in it.
IN another karojar I put a bit mycelium (with some pieces of verm) from a slow growing cake. I used a teaspoon @ 100ML water, but I had teaspoons in like 3 sizes, the Karowater is yellowish, a bit pisscolour actually.


What I learned the most last night is dont get paranoid of things going to hell, just calmly go ahead and do your thing instead of running between my cooking PC and the Shroomery. :grin:

Result now is:
- 4 jars with rye (1pint, 3 * 1,5 pints)
- 2 karo jars (1 100 ML GT Karo, 1 100ML mycelium Karo from some classic strain)
- 1 0,5 pint PF cake :wink:
- I used 9 CC for this all.

Status of my first batch of 8 bad mix PF cakes and a pint of popcorn:
- 1 tossed, had contam
- 2 tossed, no growth at all
- 1 with very little mycelium sacrificed for Karo xperiment
- 1 showed improved growth after adding sterile water, its about 60-70% now, spreading from ONE inocpoint.

- 3 others showing minor growth and are between 20 and 40%.
- Popcorn started well but seems to stop a bit, almost all conrs have some mycelium on them but its not that white fluffy mycelium cornjar I only know from pictures.... I thin its getting dry in there, or maybe it need soem air exchange?

Incubator is packed now, I have 2 CC of GT left.

Now, waiting............ O no this weekend I will setup my PMP, PC geolite, drill holes and run some tests on TEMP and RH.

Thanks for your attention. :grin:


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Offlineaussieone
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Re: What a night! [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3411332 - 11/26/04 07:44 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

24 hours + 45min simmer IMO is not necessery, either go for 12 hour soak then simmer or 24 hour soak no simmer. Just my oppinion :grin: hope it works out alright for ya :thumbup:


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: What a night! [Re: aussieone]
    #3411339 - 11/26/04 07:49 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Hey Aussie, I follow the big and famous Nagash Rye tek! :laugh:

I understood that the soaking and simmering are different things.

Soaking: to germinate endospores
Simmering: To add water to the rye, in this proces they will get swollen.
Maybe I simmered my first batch slightly too long. (I was hunting info here and it simmered about 50-55 minutes)

PC: to kille the germinated endospores and other contam sources.


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Offlinecall_me_kido
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Re: What a night! [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3411352 - 11/26/04 08:11 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Sorry but I dont agree that you can soak 24 hours and not simmer. Its pretty obvious to anyone with lots of experience with rye this is not adequate.

The trick to having rye come out correctly, is keeping an eye on the simmer.

When you soak the rye, you arent really adding water, this has been said lots of times. Just allowing a large quantity of foreign endosphores to germinate before the PC. This will just aid in a more successful batch.

The simmering can not be calculated in times. It has alot to do with the size of your boiling pot, and the type of heat you are using.

When simmering you need to bring it to a boil. Ever tried making mac and cheeze in hot water without boiling...it wont be pretty. To absorb water you need a temperature adequate for boiling. Once you acheive a boil, 45min-1 hour is a good outline for the simmer, but not the law.

Once you see grain splitting, you immediately maintain the temp and wait about 10-15 minutes. Alot of the first splitters are flukes, and its advisable for the others to catch up.

Having split grains wont cause a "humidity" problem. It has more to do with contaminations from bacteria. If there is any place where bacteria can survive the PC process, its in the middle of the center most grains. Which will not be heated for as long and at as great a temperature. If your grains are splitting, it creates a perfect breeding ground for contamination.

Even though this is true, I would never inoculate a jar which didnt have at least some split grains. Splitting is a good sign the grains youre using have acheived the highest amount of water content possible, which is necessary for your colonization.

Over straining/drying a batch of grain simply because a majority of them have split is not a good idea. As long as you dont see alot of standing water in the bottom your jars will be fine, and often times the grain will absorb extra water in the PC process, which can be seen by checking the bottom grains after pressure cooking, which should be much more inflated then the rest. After shaking it should be evenly distributed.

Also, if you are using polyfil covered holes on your jars, I wouldnt recommend covering with tinfoil, at least not tightly anyway. Tyvek is much better suited for grain jars, it allows the C02 release, but provides a basically impenetrable layer for outside spores. The whole point is for gas exchange, covering with tinfoil kind of defeats the purpose.

Nice write up on your batch, keep us updated.

Kido


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"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein (1875-1955)

"A is A" -Aristotle


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Invisibleagar
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Re: What a night! [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3411383 - 11/26/04 08:44 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

LOL?the soak / simmer thing is something we all go through. My experience with "simmering" grains almost always led to mushy - sticky grains & on occasion - wet spot contamination - in jars. I prefer WBS because of its low cost & availability - everywhere. No simmer is necessary with WBS. Just experimenting around, I have supplemented WBS spawn with rye (5 % per batch), rape seed (5%) & cracked corn (5%) & had great results.


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: What a night! [Re: agar]
    #3411486 - 11/26/04 10:33 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Reading,experimenting,doing = learning

We all got to go thur it. Keep on keeping on.

Good Luck


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: What a night! [Re: call_me_kido]
    #3411594 - 11/26/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Hey CMK,

Thanks 4 your rich reaction!

Ehm where did I mention that simmering is not needed, I treid to explain that the contrary is true, soaking 4 germinate, simmering for adding water to grain, PC-ing for killing the germinated spores.

I did a search and some folks said that too much rye-burst can be bad because of too much water. Anyway I dont think that is the case now, so next time I will keep a better eye and not dry the rye with a towel!!

ANd yes I agree with that 45 minutes is not a law, I think 45 minutes maybe too long in my case.

Tyvek, if I am correct a cool man from this board is sending me some. Tyvek is only available in envelopes here which cost about 2$ a piece. Since I still had some polyfill from my aquarium-days I chose to use that for now.

BUT I think you have given the answer on my p9int of popcorn which almost stops growing now after a very good start. Its with polyfill Shall I take the alu foil away, or loose it quiet up?

Thanks and thanks we will learn! :laugh:


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: What a night! [Re: agar]
    #3411609 - 11/26/04 11:20 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Yes today after the jars cooled down I inoculated and noticed that the rye became sticky when I shook the jar....
Yes wbs is rather cheap, but will it suck enough water while soaking so that simmer is not needed?

I have a popcorn jar which the first week went very good, but since 2 weeks is showing slow growth. Can that be due to the fact that I have the alufoil too tight? Can taht also be cause why my most of my cakes grow slow?
I tossed 2 today and I noticed that the 2 layers of alufoil where sticked together.

Hmmmz hope tyvek arrives soon! :laugh:


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Invisibleagar
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Re: What a night! [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3411649 - 11/26/04 11:37 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)


WBS jar (day 3)

Another WBS jar (day 10)

Any grain soaked in water -increase in size about 20% (+/-) 5%.
Proof of this is to fill 5 gallon plastic bucket 3/4 full of WBS, or RYE, let it soak 12 to 24 hours (however long - just so it does not start to sprout, ferment or rot).

As the grain absorbs water, it expands & will fill the bucket.
No more moisture content - than that - is needed.



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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: What a night! [Re: agar]
    #3411699 - 11/26/04 11:51 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Ok needed, so even though simmering adds more water to the grain, you say it actually isnt needed after 24 hours of soaking the rye?

And on that picture (3 days) you have some foil? over the lid, on the other picture no foil. Do you remove that during the proces?

I just took the alufoil away of my polyfill popcorn jar. Cause after a quick start it is growing very slowly now. Only thing I can come up with now is gas exchange.

I actually didnt soak the popcorn, pc-ed it without jars for 50 minutes, and rinse and drain then 50 minutes in the jar PC.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: What a night! [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3411818 - 11/26/04 12:24 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)


WBS - bulk 50 pound bags
SOAK IN 5 GALLON PLASTIC BUCKET

Rinse & DRAIN

LOAD


Tyvek filter

Lid

Add 3 coffee filters over to (w/rubber band to hold them down)
This is just external protection - over the lids.

PC

Once PC'ed, allow PC to cool (a bit), open, the external coffee filters will dry right out - on exposure to air, as jars are HOT, shake jars.

Store jars in a clean dry place until cooled to room temp, then use as applicable.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: What a night! [Re: agar]
    #3411833 - 11/26/04 12:29 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Agar thank you for the explanation and the pics.
Do you keep the coffee filters in place when you put the jars in incubation room?

Hmmz shaking after PC is probably against them grains sticking 2gether huh? cause I did only shake them after inoc and found that they where sticked together/ "clumpy"....


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: What a night! [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3413245 - 11/26/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Rye after a 24 hour soak in jars will almost double in volume.

Rye simmered after being soaked will almost double in volume again. 250ml of rye wont be 800ml after just a soak as it is after a soak and simmer. With rye, I wont just soak anymore.

WBS is different from rye and holds much less water.


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: What a night! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3413460 - 11/26/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Good stuff, I got a Pc so i'll def. be shootin for this, thankx and GL


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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