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Invisibleninjapixie
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No way, as way.
    #3409130 - 11/25/04 08:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

We all know Bruce Lee's philosophy on martial arts about adopting no particular style of fighting as his style. Over the last few months I've adopted this attitude to my beliefs.

I heard about a buddhist master that lived about 200 AD (can't spell or pronounce his name), and all he ever did was knock down everyones beliefs and philosophy without ever giving back a concept to believe in. Other buddhist were distressed about this and asked him what was his belief, afterall, we all need something to stand on, a concept to hold onto, a path to follow.

His reply was like 'WHO, needs a concept to stand on?'

Some may have noted my negative attitude towards buddhism in some threads through pointing out the logical inconsistencies, and this is half the reason (not that I claim to be a buddhist master). My love for debates is the other.

No belief, as belief.


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Put that monkey back in the oven.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3409157 - 11/25/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

*the choir* Preach it, brother!  :grin:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3409198 - 11/25/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

His reply was like 'WHO, needs a concept to stand on?'

I'm not surprised he was a Buddhist Master:smile:

No belief, as belief.

:smile:

-Believe this or that ______ Zero-Believeness ______ Believe this or that +
-I am bad _______________I am_____________I am good+
-Reality is bad _______ Reality is ______ Reality is good+

'I am' exists prior to I am this or that; 'Reality is' exists prior to reality is this or that..  et cetera, et cetera.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3409606 - 11/25/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Answering questions you can't is foolishness.

Preach on.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineGravion
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Phluck]
    #3409631 - 11/25/04 10:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Answering questions you can't is foolishness" how do you know you can't answer it without first thinking about it.. even the fool is wise if he questions the most solid answer


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There is no true wisdom, only fools who think their wise!

http://www.geocities.com/vashreward


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Gravion]
    #3409662 - 11/25/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Gravion said:
"Answering questions you can't is foolishness" how do you know you can't answer it without first thinking about it.. even the fool is wise if he questions the most solid answer




Ah, but he didn't say questioning answers was foolish... he said that answering questions you can't is foolish.

I interpret that he is saying it is foolish to conclude an answer about something that you can't know the answer to. This does not mean one cannot think about.. just that one should not attach themselves to an "answer" that they "thought up" as a possibility.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3410595 - 11/26/04 01:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

A Zen master once said to me, "Do the opposite of whatever I tell you." So I didn't.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Diploid]
    #3411367 - 11/26/04 08:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"it is a answer, not the answer"
-unknow :P


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineDoom
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Gomp]
    #3411548 - 11/26/04 11:02 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

ninja:

"through pointing out the logical inconsistencies"

wow, pointing out the illogic of a religion is quite the achievement.

not.

No belief, as belief. Yeah, this works when you spend your days taking part in such irrelevant hobbies such as pointing out the illogic of something which by nature is not logic based. Why would you ever need a belief system for such a lifestyle>? of course you dont.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Doom]
    #3411578 - 11/26/04 11:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

could one not believe? :P
would one believ that then?
:confused:


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Doom]
    #3411643 - 11/26/04 11:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Man, you are kind of a downer.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3411659 - 11/26/04 11:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

just trying to kick the soap boxes out from the feet of possible dictators, preventory measures and all.

I just dont see the heroism in attempting to discredit religion and belief in this logico-centric manner, which is indeed illogic to the highest degree in my books. Logic has no part in belief and religion, those two things are merely tools for the digging.

and more often then not, they are tools used to combat challenges.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Doom]
    #3411782 - 11/26/04 12:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So am I to think that you believe logic has zero part in Buddhism? Seeing as the fundamental principles of Buddhism are probably the most practical, useful and perennial of any other religion I've seen thus far, I would find this statement to be questionable. Note that I said "fundamental", which is the key word because I know that within the farther reaches of Buddhist practices, there becomes the field of less 'logic-bound' principles, ie reincarnation, etc.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3411804 - 11/26/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
I heard about a buddhist master that lived about 200 AD (can't spell or pronounce his name), and all he ever did was knock down everyones beliefs and philosophy without ever giving back a concept to believe in. Other  buddhist were distressed about this and asked him what was his belief, afterall, we all need something to stand on, a concept to hold onto, a path to follow.




I think I know who you are speaking of, I recently read a book, Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, which included a section of koans with additional commentary on each one by this man. I believe his name was Mu-mon? Anyways, I didn't really see it as him knowingly dismissing previous Zen lessons in order to demonstrate that one does not need concepts or beliefs, I saw it as him not actually understanding the intended meaning of those previous Zen stories. It is rather easy to question and dismiss messages without actually understanding them. He frequently referred to people as fools and didn't really demonstrate how they were fools. etc. etc. etc.

Questioning ones understandings and preventing understanding are two completely different things. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3413677 - 11/26/04 09:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

No his name was something like Narajuda(???). He had a whole school where he would destroy his students ideas. He was perfectly comfortable having no particular point of view.

I heard this from the Alan Watts lecture 'Intellectual Yoga' so it may or may not be true dependng on how much you trust Mr. Watts. Most of what he says is sound so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: Doom]
    #3413689 - 11/26/04 09:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doom said:
just trying to kick the soap boxes out from the feet of possible dictators, preventory measures and all.

I just dont see the heroism in attempting to discredit religion and belief in this logico-centric manner, which is indeed illogic to the highest degree in my books. Logic has no part in belief and religion, those two things are merely tools for the digging.

and more often then not, they are tools used to combat challenges.




If logic plays no part in belief you may as well be a fundamentalist christian.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3413698 - 11/26/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

no one knows for sure what is what...and yet everyone has an opinion.

wonderful isn't it?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3413703 - 11/26/04 10:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Its called faith.... beyond 'reasonable' doubt.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3413731 - 11/26/04 10:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

beyond a reasonable doubt...

isn't that the "policy" that jurors use to convict a man of a homicide?

here's a question for you...

do you think humans will or can ever know the answer to spiritual beliefs/questions?

does saying "no way" eliminate "a way"?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: No way, as way. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3413823 - 11/26/04 10:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah 'beyond reasonable doubt' is a legal term.

If knowing means 'that which can be put to words' then a big NO.
If knowing means 'experience' then maybe.

No way as way is just a play on words, well aware of the contradiction. You can never actually have 'no way' as whatever way you choose is going to be a way. The contradiction in 'no way as way' just shows how limited our words are and gives further reason to have 'no way,' as any 'way' (which include 'no way') is going to have logical flaws :smile:


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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