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King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
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Alternative sexuality, drugs, and stigma
    #3404262 - 11/24/04 04:39 PM (17 years, 17 days ago)

A thread in OTD about a person coming out to a friend on MDMA and psilocybin was veering off topic, but the off topic discussion was good. So, I'm creating this thread to continue the off topic part of that discussion. You should head over to that post and read through it if you can. (my friend came out of the closet when we were tripping).

In that post, I posted a somewhat tame by my standards, but somewhat extreme by others standards account of a sexual encounter I had. This generated quite a bit of anti-gay discussion even among people who are users of psychedelics. I wanted to start by address that sort of issue here, but I hope that we could continue all the off topic parts of that other discussion here.

There is a tendency among members of socially stigmatized groups to push the stigma onto a more socially stigmatized groups. Pot smokers often do it to hard drug users "Smoking pot is OK, we shouldn't be stigmatized, it's those people who use harder drugs like mushrooms that should be stigmatized. Lets refocus our efforts where they belong, stigmatizing the people of the group I'm not a part of." People who use ethnogens often do it to people who use heroin. "ethnogens are OK, it's not like I'm using heroin." The people who snort herion do it to the IV users, the IV users to it to the IV meth users and the people in rehab. Drug users to it to drug dealers "It's OK that I use drugs, really it's the drug dealers who should be stigmatized." All these attempts to push the stigma further down the line onto more marginalized groups sound like what a shroomerite wrote attacking homosexuality. "they are the mindless indulgent ones, not me, and as such, they deserve the stigma that is unfairly attached to me." It is a natural response to stigma, when you are stigmatized for something, you want the stigma to go away, and one way to get it to go away from you is to redirect it at someone else. Sometimes it's in the form of attacking someone farther down the line in your same general direction (pot smokers condemning MDMA users), and sometimes it's in the form of redirecting the stigma from your stigmatized activity to another one (unnamed shoomerite and his concern for sexual morality, Former drug czar and chronic gambler William Bennett's attacks drugs and pornography). It's depressing that some members of one marginalized group (of supposed explorers of the mind, no less) would rather push stigma onto other groups then combat the notion that groups that harm no one should be stigmatized at all. You know, because we are all one, it is only an illusion that we are seperate, and God loves us all, and all that. It's really about gaining awareness that people of somewhat stigmatized groups do the same thing to you (scientologists, for example, about your drug use), and that some shoomerites were perpetuating the same sort of thing.

I'm interested on the thoughts of shroomerites on this.

Other discussions that could be continued here include gay issues, especially relating to the stress someone who thinks they might be gay would face as a result of the way heterosexuality is engrained in our society, BDSM types of sexuality, the need to label everything and everyone, the psychology of sexual preference, the relationship between having an alternative sexuality, and the stigma from that causing increased levels of depression, increased drug use, risk of suicide, etc. Another point of discussion could be the reaction formation psychology behind people who are so threatened by gays that they want to kill them or run away from them. Pretty much anything going on in the other thread that wiccan deemed off topic.

"I am eternally free"

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rogue DMT elf
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Registered: 08/09/99
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Re: Alternative sexuality, drugs, and stigma [Re: tomk]
    #3404365 - 11/24/04 04:59 PM (17 years, 17 days ago)

it is frustrating sometimes having a wider view of sexuality, for me.

their is so much more to sex than "straight sex" (i mean basic sex) and it is all about preference. but when you are a part of a "group" (when really im not in a club or anything) that prefers something deemed "strange" by any type of majority, it is difficult to be able to express yourself.

i love talking about sex, i love having sex and i love watching sex. i love many types of behavior that are not always sexual in nature, but i find them sexually attractive...

so many people i meet do not have this sexual worldview, and all conversation is dulled because if i do mention something "strange" i immidiatly am different. i am marked.

i dont know whwre im going with this i guess... but i understand what your saying. we shouldnt push our uncomfort onto someone else, why should they be uncomfortable?

"why would i want someone to feel how i hate feeling?"

~Todd Casil (the real Todd casil)


Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud



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Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Alternative sexuality, drugs, and stigma [Re: tomk]
    #3404409 - 11/24/04 05:08 PM (17 years, 17 days ago)

Psychedelics definitely do not automatically open up people's minds, though they can. I have noticed that there is a lot more support for gay marriage on the Shroomery than you'd find among the general population. What sucks is I have friends who are very homophobic. I wish people would be more tolerant of others' differences. Sometimes I fear I'm too open-minded for my own good. I question many stigmas which are taken for granted. Incest, for example. Basically, my life experience has taught me to not judge others for being different, no matter how different they may be.


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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fresh futuristic
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Re: Alternative sexuality, drugs, and stigma [Re: silversoul7]
    #3404436 - 11/24/04 05:16 PM (17 years, 17 days ago)


I question many stigmas which are taken for granted. Incest, for example.

Incest is a strange one, since it seems to be a world stigma and not really accepted anywhere (at least as far as brother/sister/mother/father sexual relations go). It's a confusing topic, but I'm pretty sure the 'incest taboo' is everywhere and it seems odd and wrong in almost all humans. Anthropologists can't seem to find the direct cause for the taboo, but it's pretty widely accepted that someone you grow up with your whole life is just not readily regarded as an appropriate sexual partner. :shrug:


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dream observer

Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: Alternative sexuality, drugs, and stigma [Re: lukeboots]
    #3405743 - 11/24/04 09:55 PM (17 years, 17 days ago)

tomk, i found your story dirty (in the other thread), it was'nt because you were gay but because i really found it perverted, if it was with chicks i would have stilled called it a mindless indulgent act that belongs somewhere other than ODD.

and like I asked in the other thread, if a man gives his mom a hanjob, but does'nt get turned on by it, that means he's not incestual? that logic just goes way over my head, maybe i'm stupid, and i'm sorry i just cant grasp that idea.

I hate to call other people by names like gay, straight or bi, and I really hate when people ask what I am, though i'm not conforming to any name, i would have to say i'm closest to Asexual, Sex does'nt mean much to me, with a girl or with a guy, sorry if I came across as an asshole homophobe in the other thread, hey, I was drunk after all. :shrug:

Asexual is what i think is right? simply not interested in sex, right?

edit: also, if someone hates on a guy for being gay, than he is an asshole and have no respect for him nor any sympathy for any of his problems, but just because a guy does'nt believe in homosexuality and he thinks it's wrong that does not make him close minded, we all got are own reasons for believing the things we do, noone should be so forceful of there beliefs.

hello, your name is life on earth

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

Edited by JCoke (11/24/04 11:23 PM)

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