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OfflineBeatnik
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Growing salvia hydroponicly
    #340442 - 06/14/01 02:49 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I have been thinking about growing salvia using a bubbler method. But i have no idea if salvia is really suited to this type of system, i assume it would be, but i thought id ask just in case? Has anyone else tried this or another type of system?

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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Beatnik]
    #340498 - 06/14/01 05:03 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

You can grow salvia hydrophinically, but unlike weed, you would not notice any difference in strength between hydrophonic and compost grown salvia.



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OfflineBeatnik
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Phyl]
    #340970 - 06/15/01 05:51 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Im not looking for a change in potency rather an increase in the growth rate.

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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Phyl]
    #340972 - 06/15/01 05:56 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Phyl there is no difference between weed grow properly in soil and weed grow properly using hydroponic techniques. The only real difference is that hydroponic growers produce typically twice as much weed in half as much time. potency is genetic.

Edited by holographic mind on 06/14/01 10:57 PM.



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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: holographic mind]
    #341198 - 06/15/01 11:36 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

From a scientific point of view, you are correct, by my own experience is a little different to that :). I have some friend who grow weed hydrophinically. Every year they pass a few cuttings around to friends, which are taken from their motherplant, and so are genetically identical to the plants they grow. Every time, the plants that are grown on soil in natural light are nowhere near as potent as the ones grown in the hydrophinic setup. I mean it's still good weed, but it tastes much more of chlorophyl, and simply doesn't pack the same punch as the hydro-weed. Whether the lack in potency comes from light or nutrient issues , or something else entirely is difficult to say, but it's definatley the case.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Phyl]
    #341234 - 06/15/01 02:15 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I assume the difference in potency is because hydro grown gets all the nutrients and water it needs where as outdoor grown doesn't always get all the nutrients it needs, as well as being exposed to different weather conditions.

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OfflineBeatnik
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #342052 - 06/16/01 06:02 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

So is salvia suited to hydro or not? will it grow faster then salvia in a pot? cause if it isnt i will grow in a pot otherwise its going into the bubbler.... S A L V I A not P O T....

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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Beatnik]
    #342138 - 06/16/01 08:23 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I'm sure it will do fine if grown hydroponically, most all plants do. I say go for it.

Tired of pimping yourself on the corner to afford spores? Well throw out that red dress and go to the FSR, for spores even you can afford.


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Anonymous

Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #342654 - 06/17/01 02:08 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

It would work but the time and energie put into it is kind of a waste. but giveit a try why not.
yetski yeti



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Offlinestonedbygrass
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Beatnik]
    #356558 - 07/18/01 07:07 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Most people who say they know the method of hydroponics don't know it. There is no garunteed advantage of hydroponics-- it doesn't ness. grow faster, have higher potency, etc: but to achieve those results it does operate highly efficiently. In soil, plants don't ness. get all the nutes they need or too many or something-- in hydro, they can get exactly the nutes they need, get far more oxygen to the root sytem, etc. Thus, when done right, hydro can generate much healthier and fatter buds etc (pending lighting and normal vents and heat are okay).

The two biggest adv. of hydro for grass is increased potency (because it's easy to deliver the prime/perfect formula of nutes and whatnot to the plant) and decreased vegetation time: a friend can get 4 harvets (if he's really doing good) in a year where under the sun you can expect 1 because the vegetative state is cut down by the use of hydro/aero.

Because we use the salvia leaves, and not the flowers (like marijuana where we use the buds), the time we want to cut down is the vegetative state: and hydro suits that better than soil.


I was / am soon going to try a DWC with salvia (I'll take pictures and post) but I guess (err hypothesize or whatever) that'll veg. time will sign. be cut down and thus making salvia much more productive. Not too mention potency has the possibility of being higher simply because if done right, the plant will get what it needs and no more/no less.

Anyways, hope this cleared up some.
Remember: hydro doesn't ness. mean better, but it is easier to acheive (pending you have some money/time to spend with the plant).



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Anonymous

Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #356585 - 07/18/01 08:09 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

POTENCY IS GENETICS FIRST, ENVIRONMENT SECOND. To optimize a Hydro setup, you first have to Know what it is exactly that a plant needs. I actually find a good organic soil mix results in a better smoking product. Hydro can increase growth rate, but Light and Co2 are far more important than the media in which the plants are growing. Hydros real advantage is it's STEALTH. No huge amounts of soil being brought into your APARTMENT, HEHE!!!! No SOIL BORNE PESTS, would be another advantage. If you grow a plant in a nice organic, soiless media next to a hydroponic plant , both under optimal conditions (Light, CO2, etc...) You will get more weight from the Hydro, but the product won't be better.



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Offlinestonedbygrass
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: ]
    #356978 - 07/19/01 05:07 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

No you are wrong-- hydro has the advantage of more control! Not stealth.
Genetics do not play a large role, they do play some, but not much. Your comment:

"If you grow a plant in a nice organic, soiless media next to a hydroponic plant , both under optimal conditions (Light, CO2, etc...) You will get more weight from the Hydro, but the product won't be better."

Is ignorant and thus worthless, why?
First off, as long as lighting and ventalation are the same, hydro has the innate advantage of supplying more oxygen to the roots than soil ever can; secondly, hydro supplys the exact nutes the plant needs, soil can do this but they may not all be absorbed by the plant due to the soil itself, and it is much harder to feed the plant exactly what it needs.
Second, you do not understand the flowering stage,
Potency is determined (if plants are same) by when you harves the plant, so is weight. The earlier you harvest, the more potency; the later you harvest, the more weight, why? When the marijuana plant flowers it has lets say 100 units of THC, over time, these THC molucles break down into two other molucules (i forget names), so after a month, you may only have 75 units of THC and the longer you wait the less THC there will be. But, the longer you wait, the more the bud grows, so the larger the harvest you get.
Now, back to that moronic comment:
Thus, hydro will out perform soil (if you weigh all pros and cons the biggest unbeatable part of hydro is the easy oxygenation of roots), and thus will probably have a potency of lets say 200 units in the begining whereas the soil will only have 150 or something like that. Plus, with hydro, you have your plants like 3 times faster into the flowering stage, so, in the long run, you can get much more bud faster.
This comment of hydro's weight being better but potency not makes no sense.

Now, if you really say stupid like "well, soil is NATURAL and hydro is not" this really makes NO sense whatsoever. True, soil usually uses the full spectrum of our sun whereas hydro is somewhat limited with their HIDS (unless grown under the sun), but the nutes are broken down into the rudimentery elements and thus can't be any different.

Hydro owns soil if done right.





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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #356995 - 07/19/01 06:00 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

SBG it seems as if at one time you did a bit of reading, but forgot most of what you learned and you are filling in the memory gaps as you go along. In other words you are talking out of your ass. There are so many inaccuracies in your information that someone would have to pay me to correct you. Therefor I am not going to bother. Have a nice life.





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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
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Registered: 06/23/01
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: holographic mind]
    #357007 - 07/19/01 06:36 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

your setup is only as good as the weakest link meaning co2 light nutrients and oxygen to the roots no point in injecting co2 if your plants dont have enough water or any of the above

i can believe its butter but why would you do that


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Anonymous

Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #357018 - 07/19/01 07:13 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Glad you cleared that up for me!! First of all STONED BY MOLD, you need to put down the GENERAL HYDROPONICS BOOK, and go pick up a book on LOGIC, because your ability to make connections and correlations is mind boggleing. HYDROPONICS does not equal High intensity discharge light. LOTS of people grow under lights with SOIL. YES, you can get more control over the nutrient availibility with hydro, yes your growth rate will increase, so you have a larger plant to force into flowering, but that doesn't increase potency, just size. HYDRO does not control the mechanisms that initiate flowering, there isn't a person alive on the planet that can tell you how a plant is stimulated into flowering, PHYTOCHROME is the name, but no one knows how that works. Photoperiod and AGE, not size, determine WHEN a Plant flowers, and certainly not not oxygen availability. That is why you still clone a mature mother and not start from seed. The mature mother is ready to flower already. NEITHER soil nor hydro effects that. You are absolutely right that hydro is more effecient in stimulating growth rate, but that is all. A good Soil mix, will not lock up nutrient availibility for an annual plant. You will run into problems with perrenials, but not something that is done in 45-120 days. And a good soil mix will also supply ample amounts of OXYGEN to the plants root system, sure not as much as an AIRFLOW system, but good amounts. And on the notion of NATURAL versus unnatural that is rediculous, I agree. OF' course I hope you go BIo-ponics, because the less petroleum products we use the better. So quit calling me a moron, because the reason people started using Hydro for Pot, was not to increase potency. STEALTH, AND INCREASED GROWTH RATE AND SIZE IN A SMALLER SPACE, THATS IT.
There is a guy, a scientist working on stimulating secondary metabolite production with HYDROPONICS, but it has nothing to do with Oxygen supply. He is manipulating the nutrient content of his solutions. But after ten years of study, he is having great difficulty with replicating the results. Plants and animals are a bit more complex than you, I, or any other human being will ever KNOW!!! So quit being an ass, and do some more research. AND TO REPLY BEFORE YOU ASK, yes I have GROWN both HYDROPONICALLY and IN SOIL MIXES. AND I prefer the SOIL grown POT, it smokes better. And that mainly has to do with the ASSHOLE COMMERCIAL HYDRO OPERATIONS, that respect the money, not the pot. Selling wet, moldy pot. COUGH,COUGH,COUGH. Have you ever been to Europe, they grow HYdro, because they GROW in greenhouses. IT constantly rains, it's cool, IT is a soilborne fungus's dream. No SOIL, no DISEASE. SEATTLE, WASHINGTON has a similar climate, alot of good indoor strains were developed there. To bad you can't grow pure equatorial sativa indoors, because then you might understand the concept of a Quality HIGH. So take your indoor RUD., IND, SATIVA HYbrids and shove it where the sun don't shine. Maybe it is all that OXYGEN that is getting you so high. Just kidding dude. Hydro is cool too, but it ain't better. Unless your motives are to make as much money as possible in as short a period of time as possible. YIELD NOT QUALITY OF COURSE.
MAN THOSE ARE THE MOST POTENT ROSES I EVER SMOKED, they were grown hydro dude. EVER stop to think, that it might just be the fact that your plants are indoors, away from the wind and rain, that is making your buds so potent. Do a test, grow the same strain from cuttings. Put one in a very good soil mix with all the organic goodies, and one in A bubbler set-up. Grow these up to be mothers. Take cuttings from these and plant them in the same system the mother was grown in. When each one is READY to harvest, cut them down, slow cure them in cool air, and smoke them. If you really THINK the potency will be higher with the HYDRO, IT PROBABLY WILL BE. The mind is a powerful thing. But if you measured for THC, and took an average for the whole plant and quantified it in relation to WEIGHT, you will see, there is no real difference. Some people actually think that STRESS is the trigger that produces higher potency. That is the basis for that Scientists study, not hydro, but stress. But all in all GENETICS is the KEY FACTOR. Environment just turns on and off, the various mechanisms that regulate growth. Breeding developed the potent strains, artificial selection by man. Through a really good indoor strain outside and see how potent it will be, That is if you have anything to smoke.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: fuzzysquirelnuts]
    #357180 - 07/19/01 03:44 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Teo here is some advice. Be concise. You should have approched this challenge by first correcting all of SBG's mistakes, because there are quite a few. Unless of course you lack the knowledge to correct his overwhelming number of bloopers in the first place. Once any confusion or misinterpretation has been eliminated you can go ahead and put forth secondary thoughts and construct a more eleborate discusion.



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Anonymous

Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: holographic mind]
    #357319 - 07/19/01 11:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

That's why I love you Holo, because even when you agree you find a way to insult.
Hydro= Faster growth rate
No soil borne pathogens
More control over nutrient quality and availability
Easier for indoor operations and greenhouse Op.
Hydro does not equal High intensity light
Hydro does not increase potency as a percentage of dry weight.
Sorry Holo got the Degrees in Botany and Hort. science, not English, and it has been a while since I had to submit any papers for grading.




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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #357417 - 07/20/01 05:43 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

SBG premature buds are not as potent as mature or "ripe" buds and over ripe buds can be less potent than both. the precursor to thc or more accurately thc(a - acid) is cbg(a). thc(a) degrades into cbd(a). As buds mature the concentration of thc(a) laden essential oils builds within the glandular trichomes (resin glands). Literally filling the gland head. The buds are ripe around the time that the rate of thc(a) biosynthesis begins to decrease and the rate of thc(a) degradation begins to increase. SBG stop trying to sound smart. leave that to me. by the way, teon is right, genetics play an immensely important role in terms of potency. Limiting factors are much less relavent. Harvesting, drying and curing techniques greatly influence the quality and the potency of the end product. SBG, you don't know shit, unfortunately. Stop pretending like you do.



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Offlinestonedbygrass
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: ]
    #357506 - 07/20/01 07:57 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I know hydro doesn't equal a HID, that's why I mentioned you can do hydro under the "full spectrum of the sun"; I simply said HID because a lot of growers with hydro setups use HIDS (or flouros but that is generally not as good).
Also note that I repeaditly said that depending on variables, and if they are equal or not determines the plant-- not just being hydro.

When a plant goes into flowering is catalyzed by the day/night cycle of light that the plant is exposed too. You can influence this by limiting or giving all the possible light to the plant to inhibit or catalyze the plant into the next cycle. While the plant is growing, using hydro to give the correct nutes (you can do with soil but it is far eaiser with hydro, plus oxygen to the root system using hydro) to increase the growth rate AND health of the plant so it is more able to produce a heightened potency.
That is why I said hydro can LEAD, not for sure, (which i mentioned again that hydro is fully dependent on the skill of the grower) to a higher potency more easily.

The smoke has to do with drying a lot I agree.

I never said wind and rain ruin the potency, if anything, certain stresses (like wind) strengthen the stock of the plant so the buds can get fuller (and the plant can support them).

I did fuck up on genetics, what I meant to say was simply that genetics doesn't play the limiting factor in the potency: shitty quality marijuana doesn't ness. mean that the seeds will have a max potency as the mother plant. -- This is what i meant.
I agree, selevtive breeding (for genetics) does have a huge factor in the potency of the harvest: but, if the growing sucks, so will the potency.





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Offlinestonedbygrass
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: holographic mind]
    #357516 - 07/20/01 08:02 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I got one part of it wrong, doesn't mean I dont know shit.
Thanks for explaining in detail that aspect of the grow, I was misinformed (and I had read that long ago :P

As I said in the other post, I meant that genetics isn't ness. the inhibiting factor of the potency: a good grow can (and most likely will) have better potency than its shwag mother.

And, again, harvesting and curing play a huge role in the taste of the smoke; I complelty agree. In fact, I think (verify this?) that if you let the harvest dry in a circadian cycle (for tempature rises/losses) more of the chlorphyl will die out and the smoke will be a lot less harsh.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #357549 - 07/20/01 08:45 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

circadian adj 1: of or relating to biological processes occurring at 24-hour intervals; "circadian rhythms" 2: (biology) exhibiting 24-hour periodicity

"In fact, I think (verify this?) that if you let the harvest dry in a circadian cycle (for tempature rises/losses) more of the chlorphyl will die out and the smoke will be a lot less harsh."

Excuse me? Come again? chlorphyl is broken down during the process of curing. Curing essentially means to slow the process of drying towards the end of the drying process. The reason it is done towards the end of drying is because this is when the buds are still moist but not so moist that they easily mold. The partially dried floral clusters are first placed in a sealed bag over night in a dark, cool location. this allows moisture from the inner bud and stem to distribute more evenly throughout the entire floral cluster. then the buds are lightly filled into brown paper bags and the bags are folded closed. The bags allow moisture transpiration but slow evaporation. The flowers still contain sufficient water therefor they are still alive. The plants (flowers) food supply (nutrients) is of course thwarted so the flower begins to break down stored starchs and pigments (chlorophyl) into sugars (food). Oxygen must be present so the bags are aired out at least daily. after they have dried a bit in the paper bags they are then placed losely into glass jars. the jars are aired out daily and the buds are carefully fluffed. over the course of a few weeks the frequency of air exchange is decreased until eventually the buds have between a 10-15% moisture content. At this point the buds are ready to be smoked and can be sealed indefinitely. the cure produces a smoother smoke and more fragrent aroma. Some say it increases potency, but it probably SLIGHTLY decreases potency.



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Offlinestonedbygrass
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: holographic mind]
    #357558 - 07/20/01 08:53 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Err I meant circadian as in just a 24 hour cycle; I meant that I once read that leaving the marijuana to dry in a climate variant (on the 24h cycle of night/day where nights are colder than days) initializes some mechanism in the plant to break down the chlorpyhll more (or more faster).



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #357573 - 07/20/01 09:23 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Temperature variation would affect humidity level which wouldn't be good. Excessive heat would hasten drying and also degrade thc. The drying area temperature should be mild, room temperature. air circulation should be adequate to prevent stagnation which leads to mold. Air circulation also facilitates moisture transpiration. The drying buds shouldnot be exposed to light. Humidity should be mild, 40-60% rH. This area should be clean also.



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OfflineStylus
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: stonedbygrass]
    #357665 - 07/20/01 05:47 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

when a foaf harvested his plants last year he just hung it in his closet for a couple weeks where the temp stayed the same the bud was smooth and had a good taste. So I don't think the temp going up and down does shit!

Marijuana affects the ah hmmm.... oh I forgot.


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Invisibledimitri211
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Re: Growing salvia hydroponicly [Re: Beatnik]
    #357678 - 07/20/01 06:36 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

1

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