The National Debt - Political Discussion

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JesusChrist
Son Of God

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months

The National Debt

#3403844 - 11/24/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

This nation had record surpluses under Bill Clinton. I have heard that many times. Here is a list of our national debt year by year. You will notice that it has gotten larger every single year since 1960.

09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/28/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
12/31/1985 1,945,941,616,459.88
12/31/1984 1,662,966,000,000.00
12/31/1983 1,410,702,000,000.00
12/31/1982 1,197,073,000,000.00
12/31/1981 1,028,729,000,000.00
12/31/1980 930,210,000,000.00
12/31/1979 845,116,000,000.00
12/29/1978 789,207,000,000.00
12/30/1977 718,943,000,000.00
12/31/1976 653,544,000,000.00
12/31/1975 576,649,000,000.00
12/31/1974 492,665,000,000.00
12/31/1973 469,898,039,554.70
12/29/1972 449,298,066,119.00
12/31/1971 424,130,961,959.95
12/31/1970 389,158,403,690.26
12/31/1969 368,225,581,254.41
12/31/1968 358,028,625,002.91
12/29/1967 344,663,009,745.18
12/30/1966 329,319,249,366.68
12/31/1965 320,904,110,042.04
12/31/1964 317,940,472,718.38
12/31/1963 309,346,845,059.17
12/31/1962 303,470,080,489.27
12/29/1961 296,168,761,214.92
12/30/1960 290,216,815,241.68

The Democrats that talk about surpluses are lying to the American people. Fortunately for them they have screwed up our educational system so bad that the American people believe them.

Republicans are the party of smaller government. I have heard that many times. The party of smaller government is lying to the American people.

As has been pointed out in another post, this acknowledged debt is only a fraction of the real committments and obligations our nation faces. When you add social security and government backed pensions they make this bill look like child's play.

The ugly truth is that even this bleak picture of debt is a lie, and that we actually owe much more. Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

Breaking news I guess. Democrats and Republicans both lie while they steal from our future and the future of our children.

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you."

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Tastes just like chicken

Edited by JesusChrist (11/24/04 01:32 PM)

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Phred
Fred's son

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months

Re: The National Debt

[Re: JesusChrist]
#3404322 - 11/24/04 02:50 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

The national Debt has grown larger each year, yes. But there is a difference between the National Debt and a budget surplus. Unless the budget surplus for a given year is larger than the interest accrued on the outstanding national debt that same year, the debt increases.

pinky

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Great_Satan
prophet of God

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953

Re: The National Debt

[Re: Phred]
#3404970 - 11/24/04 04:39 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I own a lot of bond funds which include some government bonds so you're all paying me, too.

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http://www.yourewelcomeeverybody.com/gallery.php

http://www.grouchymedia.com/

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BleaK
paradox

Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 4 days

Re: The National Debt

[Re: Phred]
#3405266 - 11/24/04 05:44 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
The national Debt has grown larger each year, yes. But there is a difference between the National Debt and a budget surplus. Unless the budget surplus for a given year is larger than the interest accrued on the outstanding national debt that same year, the debt increases.

pinky

the idea, was that clinton was suposedly spending within his alocated budget.
which is a joke.
since we dont own our own money to begin with.

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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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JesusChrist
Son Of God

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months

Re: The National Debt

[Re: Phred]
#3406092 - 11/24/04 09:27 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
The national Debt has grown larger each year, yes. But there is a difference between the National Debt and a budget surplus. Unless the budget surplus for a given year is larger than the interest accrued on the outstanding national debt that same year, the debt increases.

Sharkman, I plead ignorance to the ?nuance? I guess.

Shouldn't the budget include debt service for our collective financial obligations? I was a corporate accountant for 10 years before I started my own business. When we did budgets, we included every cost, including the cost of interest on our money line. Now that I am on my own, I still factor debt into the equation. You know why? Because you fucking have to. It is real.

On a personal level the same rings true. Imagine if you racked up tons of credit card debt and you had to pay interest on that. Then imagine if you fell further into debt while still claiming you had a surplus. The banks and creditors wouldn't buy it. People were talking about putting away the "surplus" for social security. Republicans said the surplus means we need to cut taxes and give money back to the people. All the while we had no ?surplus?. The debt just kept growing.

They lied to us. I won't accept the ?nuance? that they propose. Fuck their ?nuance?. I am telling you that we haven?t had a surplus in the last 45 fucking years. I trust my judgment better than theirs, because I know what it is like to have to pay a fucking bill. They all deserve to be smacked about the head and neck with a lead pipe.

Blame it on the holiday rum. Peace.

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Tastes just like chicken

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Phred
Fred's son

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months

Re: The National Debt

[Re: JesusChrist]
#3407408 - 11/25/04 07:37 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

JesusChrist writes:

Shouldn't the budget include debt service for our collective financial obligations?

Of course it should. But it doesn't and as far as I am aware it never has. Let's not forget we are discussing government here, not a corporation which lives or dies by whether or not it turns a profit.

My point was that by the established "rules of the game" -- observed by both parties -- those who claim there was a "budget surplus" during some years of Clinton's presidency are not lying. Depends on how one defines "budget" and "surplus", doesn't it?

pinky

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John
ssdp.org

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.

Re: The National Debt

[Re: JesusChrist]
#3409749 - 11/25/04 08:45 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

and they just passed a bill to rase the debt cap. the youger population can say goodbye to ss!

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There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.

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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762

Re: The National Debt

[Re: JesusChrist]
#3409831 - 11/25/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Yes that is true but

The cost of Coke, gallon of gas, has gone up a lot since 1960 also.

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