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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
2.5 hour disscusion with housemate.
    #3402538 - 11/24/04 08:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so i live in a household with 4 -5 differnt ppl(depending on the time of year) from different families. all of us are pretty interested in politics/philosophy/psychology and or, sociology. humanology, i'll say. and history to some extent.

so a long talk starts up while im sitting on the couch, smoking a bowl, with one of my roomates, and we start talkin about world events/issues.

i tend to take a, somewhat uninformed point of view, in the sense that i dont have alot of history knowlage, or even that much current events. im more of a psychology/philosphy/sociology buff.

this peticular roomate is more into politics and current events, and history.
very interesting conversation always comes out of the combination, of his information, and my questioning.

the heat of the conversation probly started around the idea that the american news, and govt feeds its people.
that a group of people in the world, hate us, because we are sinners from theyre percpective.
when i hear "they hate our freedoms" im thinking, that the implication is, that "they" are enthusiastically religeous. and since we dont perscribe to their beliefs, we are evil, from their perspective.
by biblical standards, someone who practiced magic might be burned. since they were portrayed as "anti-us" since we are god, or allied with him, and u are satan, or or allied with him.
im not going to get into religeous history and its implications.


so is this the case? that they hate us because we are, not which they assosiate with god?
why would we sell weapons to people like that?(http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/23/news-crogan.php)

or. are these people angry with us for a different reason?

i think about what would make me angry, or hatefull towards someone.
if they infringed on my way of life, would be a large catagorization, and example of that.

im not going to be mad at someone because they dont believe in my god.
they can go to hell.
thats rationality.
i will be angry if they prevent me from worshiping my own god. or satisfying my own needs spiritual and otherwise.

so have we done that?

the conversation between my roomate and i, from here, progressed into a talk about pre industrial societys, and the origin of war.

i had asked about the underlying cause of war. originally.
someone had something, that someone else wanted. example;
community A; of hunter/gatherers, and,
community B;
and for the sake of acuracy, community C, D, E, F, and G.
they all exist in different areas, but seeing as the earth is a sphere, they all interconect..

so as these tribes grow slowly, they meet each other, and start to notice one another hunting and gathering in the same area.
scarcity arises??
competition for space begins? people spread out... these kinds of things..
natural selection working, survival of the fittest right?

so i began to wonder. if the world as it stands now, is somewhat like large organizations of tribes. that have, for the purpose of aquiring the resources they need to live. banded together and, gone to war with, or occupied nearby tribes, takin their resources in the process.

seems to make more sense than the enthusiastic religeous people explanation.

if this be the case. then it would seem that the remedy would be the most basic of schoolyard problem solving.
the premise is, that there are limited resources in the world, and they must be shared.

if its true that we need to occupy other territories, in order to sustain ourselves.
then we are living under the implication, that we are more important than them.

so why are people suposedly angry with us?

i can at least imagine the perspective of someone who grew up in a deeply religeous family.
but i dont think there could be many people who would kill themselves, just to kill others as a statement.

so why would we sell weapons to a country which was populated by people who were willing to kill for their beliefs? and, theyre beliefs, were not the same as ours.
and is that really the truth of how they are?

lets talk about religeon a little bit.
from my roomate and i's perspective, religeon appears to be a tool for generating political power. in the way it was used by the romans for example.
the more followers u have, the bigger your army is, the more resources u can controll. and, the less likely it is another tribe, or army will be able to take what resources you have. so be fruitfull and multiply im told.
so was religeon the father of politics?
i realize im talking about only a portion of religeon.

so were waring.
is it nessisary that people are dying now?
would people really sacrafice themselves because some other people on the otherside of the planet are being sinfull?
would you do that for your religeon?

im completely blown away that anyone would choose war over peace.

do we need to destroy others to support our way of life in america?
do we deserve that? or need it?
is it possible for the world, to realize is it a sphere?
do you think your life is any more or less important that anyone elses?
why must we have more babies when there are orphans in the world?

people will say, well, theyre not my orphans. why should i deal with it? its just more work for me.

but they are here with you.
and if they dont get what they need in peacefull way.
they will try to take it in a non-peacefull way.
thats nature. right?
so since we have the ability to realize our inseperability.
shouldnt we live as the new-agers say "as one"?

i dont know if theres much point to this post.
i cant tell if the world is chaos, or organized chaos.
but i see death and pain in the world, and i fear that i may be directly or indirectly, partially, or majorly the cause of this death and pain. and in any case i am certainly a target of outcry.

i have experienced some pain.
and i didnt enjoy it, nor ask for it. and i see no reason for anyone to edure it.

do we need to destroy others to support our way of life in america?
do we deserve that? or need it?
is it possible for the world, to realize is it a sphere?
do you think your life is any more or less important that anyone elses?
why must we have more babies when there are orphans in the world?

am i crazy?

this is only touching on an even broader conversation that involved more extensive talking about religeon and the monetary system in america which i wont go into here. its been disscused elsewhere recently.

its 5 am, im going to sleep now.

what say you?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: 2.5 hour disscusion with housemate. [Re: BleaK]
    #3403035 - 11/24/04 12:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Intriguing post, man. :thumbup:

I'd say you guys are pretty much dead-on accurate on most of this. I'll also add, that in this particular situation, it isn't really a difference in religious views that is creating this conflict, it is the bigger country exerting its influence in an area without much regard for the inhabitants of that area. Extremist Muslims sworn agansit the States aren't motivated by religious beliefs - they want us the fuck out of their home. :grin:

We shouldn't be meddling in the Middle East's affairs, but yet we have been for decades and decades... Religion certainly outlines the contrasts between us, however. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: 2.5 hour disscusion with housemate. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3409548 - 11/25/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

BUMP . . . .


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineDoom
Rogue

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 365
Loc: ghost-train city
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: 2.5 hour disscusion with housemate. [Re: BleaK]
    #3411607 - 11/26/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"bleak"
: "they hate our freedoms"

I didnt read all of your post, so I dont know if you actually believe this or not, but Al Qaeda doesnt give a shit about your freedoms. AQ's reason du etre is to remove foriegn powers from the middle east and establish one large muslim state.

also, the US govt doesnt give a fuck about you either. Americans have been duped into thinking that they live in a real nation-state. You dont, you pay your tithe to the warlords in control, they pacify you with certain civil services and a promise of protection, then, like any warlord, they use your money to go about on their own adventures and hunt for gold, bleed, pillage and plunder.

Neither George Bush or Osama bin Laden gives a fuck about you, thats the truth.


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 65,301
Loc: 9th Dimension
Re: 2.5 hour disscusion with housemate. [Re: Doom]
    #3411631 - 11/26/04 11:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I care


--------------------


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