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Offlinekadakuda
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Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP
    #3392140 - 11/21/04 05:31 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

so anyone experimented with this plant? my dad takes it for depression and finds it not quite strong enough but says it does work. quite amazing seen as almost all other things givin to him by the doc have not at all (this was not mentioned by a doctor). anyway i finally remembered to write it down last time i went for a visit.

so what do you guys think? effects, growth, harvesting. any experiences at all?

heres some links.
http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/GreenCanyon/questp101647#MoreInfo
http://www.organic-herb.com/1.html
http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGP/AGPC/doc/GBASE/Data/Pf000157.HTM
http://www.viable-herbal.com/singles/herbs/s771.htm


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: kadakuda]
    #3392713 - 11/21/04 12:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It's hard as hell to germinate the seeds. I tried with dozens and none popped. I heard from one guy who got just a few seedlings from a kilo of seeds. For depression, use salvia divinorum. It's great but you have to watch the dose so you don't trip.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3393019 - 11/21/04 02:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>>For depression, use salvia divinorum.

What's the reasoning behind it? I have an certain idea based on older information that's not specifically related to salvia, but I was wondering why it is you say this or where you've read it.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: neuro]
    #3393404 - 11/21/04 05:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>What's the reasoning behind it? I have an certain idea based on older information that's not specifically related to salvia, but I was wondering why it is you say this or where you've read it.

neuro, this comes from personal experience, it's not just something I read in a book. It works. I don't know the mechanism but it does work. It's said to affect the mu opiod receptor, if I remember correctly. The exact dosage is a bit tricky but can be worked out with trial and error. I've heard from people who had very serious depression and they said this was better than anything the doctors had. No slur is intended on the medical profession but they do not know all there is to know even if some of them think they do. I've met some damn fools who had advanced degrees. I'm sure you have also. Getting a little off the subject there. I found that this boosts a depressed mood like nothing else and the only side effects I've ever noticed was an increace in dreaming. The benefits last for from a day to weeks.

It does not get you high, it is not a cure for boredom and will do little or nothing if you aren't depressed. It will produce a short lived psychedelic trip if you use too much. This is what scares all the "straight" people away from trying it. They would rather stay depressed the rest of their lives than try something the doc didn't recommend. We live in a world of our own choosing and in a way, unhappy people often choose to be unhappy. Now I'm getting way off topic so I will say adieu.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3393427 - 11/21/04 05:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

how did you take it? im guessing smoking still? in raw leaf how much was it comaperd to a trip dose (for you)?

and that sucks about the crappy germination. im only guessing but could it be from hybridizing them or possibly just not producing fertile seeds because teh extract may not require it?


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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: kadakuda]
    #3393479 - 11/21/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

kada, I have no idea why G.F. is so hard to germ. It may be a freshness issue. Why is calea so hard to germ or some others?

I use salvia by smoking 5x extract. I use extract so I don't have to smoke as much plant material. If a trip dose starts at 3 tokes, for example, an antidepressant dose might be 1 or 2 tokes. A trip will knock out your depression too but you can get the bennies without tripping. The difference is dramatic but it may take a while before you notice. You might say you felt the same but if someone asked if you felt down, you'd say no whereas before you would have said yes. For a new user who was scared of tripping I'd say try a very small amount, perhaps a small toke of 5x or a large toke of plain leaf. This may do nothing so if no benefit is seen after 20 minutes, try another toke. Keep trying until something happens. However, I've found that depressed people will swim the proverbial river of shit rather than try it. A doper depressed person probably would but a brainwashed "drugs are bad" person is usually hopeless.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3393564 - 11/21/04 06:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Second thought, I believe it's the kappa opiod receptor that salvia works on, not the mu receptor as I previously said.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineethnobotany
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3393904 - 11/21/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Funny you said that, i was just reading that divinorum is being studied to treat depression.

heres a link

Quote:

Are there any medicinal qualities of salvia d.?
The historical uses include several ailments it was being used for such as headache relief, diarrhea, rheumatism, debilitation and ascities (abdominal edema) which was also believed to be a magical disease [1]. At the time of writing this feature, it is not recognized by modern medical authorities. A case study focused on salvia d. for depression and could possibly further the research focus for psychiatric conditions .




http://healthyherbs.about.com/cs/historyfolklore/a/aa100202.htm


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Offlineethnobotany
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: ethnobotany]
    #3393907 - 11/21/04 07:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have major depression im going to start trying my salvia to treat it.

thanks stonehenge.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3394986 - 11/21/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This is resulting in a bad thread derailment, but i think intensely interesting - that those who are following the two plots here may enjoy none the less.

Many users of opiates find that they are intensely effective in relieving depression. I was reading a website someone referred me to once and it seemed to concur with what I had read elsewhere about the anectodtal antidepressant action in ocasional users, regular, and ddicts.

Quote:


The "depressant" opioids are somewhat more benign. They are effective painkillers. They can also be extremely pleasurable. In classical antiquity, Aristotle - admittedly not always the soundest authority on medical matters - classified pain as an emotion. Opium was a traditional remedy for melancholic depression; its efficacy is arguably superior to Prozac, though controlled clinical trials are lacking. In "animal models", opioids reverse the depressed behavior, learned helplessness and neuroendocrine responses associated with clinical depression. By contrast, opioid antagonists such as naloxone exacerbate them. To confuse matters further, sufferers of depression typically share an increased sensitivity to pain;

From www.biopsychiatry.com





Is effective sometimes better than Prozac. Granted, to some that's no big feat. None th less interesting still.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: neuro]
    #3395194 - 11/22/04 07:35 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

VERY interesting, all of you.  neuro i especialyl love teh title of that website:
"THE  RESPONSIBLE  PARENT'S  GUIDE
TO  HEALTHY  MOOD-BOOSTERS
FOR  ALL  THE  FAMILY"

:lol:  anyway im tired so im going to give that a thurough read tomarow.

personally i have no problem with changing subjects as long as teh question i had were answered which they were.  in my head it was aimed at growing the plant and stone said how difficult it was to gern, so i'll look for cuttings but still keep my eye out for seeds.  anyway i liek the way this thread is going, very good info.  keep it coming.

i dont think my fairly anti drug father will be taking any salvia or opium for his depression but i sure as hell love to learn this stuff and im definatly goign to try salvia for this reason.  sounds very promising!  keep it coming :smile:


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: kadakuda]
    #3397541 - 11/23/04 11:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>>i dont think my fairly anti drug father will be taking any salvia or opium for his depression but i sure as hell love to learn this stuff and im definatly goign to try salvia for this reason.

You could probably convince him to give it a try based on how you frame remarks. You could align salvia with St John's Wort, so if he's more receptive to the St John's Wort you could get a foot in the door for salvia. He won't be smoking salvia like we would to get an effect, instead he'd be chewing some leaves, not really the same mind blowing effect. Just a thought, I've learned that much of drug introduction is all about how and what you say. Both on the anti- and prohibition side.

Much like the negatives i see about marijuana. "Increased heart rate, poor motor function/reaction time, 438 different chemicals," when objective information is presented in a subjective form it often takes a negative. But the fact is, all drugs have these same profiles. The 438 different chemical thing is just a scare, it plays on this idea that chemicals are bad and lots of chemicals is really bad. But i'm sure a break down of the chemicals in coffee would yield just as high a number, or any plant for that matter.


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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: neuro]
    #3397675 - 11/23/04 11:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think a quid would probably be the best way to introduce it to someone like that. Quids are slower acting and therefore less likely to produce a trip than smoking. Kada, is your dad a smoker? If so, smoking might be the easiest way if he doesn't like the bitter taste. If the taste doesn't throw him then perhaps holding a leaf or two in his cheek would be better. It takes about 20 or 30 minutes to get the effects that way. People who trip on it take about 8 to 12 leaves or perhaps less if they are huge leaves. There is no need to chew them, just hold them between cheek and gum. It absorbs poorly in the gut so the idea is to keep it in the mouth.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3399200 - 11/23/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

o wow thanks guys. no he doesnt smoke or drink anymore. he is really sorta anti-drug but open minded about other people doing it...if that makes sense. he just takes wahts bought from stores really but i have slowly been telling him about a couple plants im growing that can be used as mood lifters. withania for example. so once it gets large enough im going to take some over and see if he goes for it.

thats very good that it can be chewed for depression, smoking it would have had no chance with him.


and jsut because neuros link is such a good one here it is again
www.biopsychiatry.com


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Offlinewhitegreyhat
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: kadakuda]
    #3406215 - 11/24/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

yah i have taken Griffonia simplicifolia supplements. I was reading that the actual chemical 5-hydrotyptophan (sp) used to be an actual anti-depressent before the prozac, zoloft days, then it was banned by the FDA. Interesting enough it is still used in baby forumla.
In any case i have tried it. It seems to work moderately well for depression. It makes you a little bit more "out of touch with reality" but not in a druggy kind of way. I have taken prozac before and found it to be similar. (both raise serotonin levels) Yet it made me really spacey and i seemed to forget a lot of things. Thats just my experience.

In any case i went though the bottle really quick, about 2-3 weeks. You can get it at walmart for less than 6 dollars(45 pills 50mg each i think-its marked as 5-htp but its just a griffin whatever supplement)

so i dont really know if growing it would be worth it, unless its for novelty purpose.

Well thats my 2 cents!


Edited by whitegreyhat (11/24/04 11:59 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: whitegreyhat]
    #3407654 - 11/25/04 12:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, everybody would rather take a pill than use a natural herb even when the herb is much better. I've already heard back from people who tried salvia on my say-so and they reported very good results. If salvia isn't enough for you then you are looking for something to get you high, not something to relieve depression. There are lots of things for that like pot, kava, etc etc etc. None of them are very good for depression which is a different thing alltogether.

Symptoms of depression can include having no energy or interest in things, not getting enjoyment from stuff you use to enjoy. It could include feeling tired all the time. If the world looks grey and little things don't cheer you up, you are probably depressed. Other symptoms could include feeling discouraged and having no confidence in anything working out. Most people think depression means they cry all the time and think about suicide. Some depressed people are like that but normally the first signs of depression are a grey, blah, discouraged feeling and having no interest in doing everyday things and no confidence.

One problem with being depressed is that you have no energy for trying new stuff and doubt very much that anything will work. You would think a depressed person would jump at the chance to try salvia since it's been proven to work. A depressed stoner might try it but in most cases they will give you 100 excuses why they shouldn't bother. They will say they "think" it won't work and doubt it will. They will say they are afraid of tripping and don't want to go insane. They will say they'll ask their doctor and see if he recommends it (he won't). If you give them a free sample they will promise to use it and never will. Short of holding them down and making them use it, there is no way to get relief to most depression sufferers. If medical scientists started researching it and publishing the results, things could change. However, it's not something that has a lot of profit built in because you can grow your own and it's available on the net. It's like glucosamine and chondroitin which are excellent for arthritis but which most doctors will not tell you about. If you bring it up they will admit they heard of it but will never tell you first. There is no profit in prescribing it because it's over the counter. neuro, I know you're a doc so don't take it personally. You will be one of the good doctors. I'm talking about the greedy or ill informed other doctors.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFunkey
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3407729 - 11/25/04 12:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That's some interesting stuf you wrote there Stonehenge! It's the first time I hear something like that. How does one use Salvia to combat depression? Do you have to use it daily (or weekly or more times a day or...) untill the depression is gone? How much should one use?
I know that there's probably no manual out there, but what do you think is best?


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SING WHILE YOU MAY...


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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3407746 - 11/25/04 12:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I've already heard back from people who tried salvia on my say-so and they reported very good results.




I've also tried it. No more winter's blues!  :smile:
Incredible herb!


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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #3408169 - 11/25/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>How does one use Salvia to combat depression? Do you have to use it daily (or weekly or more times a day or...) untill the depression is gone? How much should one use?

This is hard to say. Everyone seems to have a different tollerance to salvinorin. On top of that, once you find your dose you may have to ratchet downward because of reverse tollerance. The more times you use it the farther it goes and the less you need, up to a point, that is. One person may get good results from a single puff of plain leaf, the next person may need a whole gram of 20x to get any effects. I would say to try just one toke, wait 15 minutes, try another toke etc until you notice results. You could start with plain leaf but I'd say to get 5x extract because most people can't get off on plain leaf. Take a very tiny toke of 5x, wait 20 minutes, try another tiny toke, etc.

How long it lasts really depends. For me, if I get the blues I'll take a couple tokes of 5x and I can tell by the feeling if I've had enough. I've noticed though that even small amounts that didn't seem to have an effect did improve my mood a little the next day. For me, one dose lasts several days, sometimes a few weeks or more. Someone with more serious depression may need it every day. I've heard from people with extremely bad depression who were on all sorts of prescription junk for years with little help from them. After they tried salvia they gave up the drugstore crap.

The trips can be scary even if you are experienced with lsd or shrooms. Occasionally the trips will be lots of fun and wonderful but that's rare. The green goddess is a meloncholy type and usually shows you wierd and spooky shit. I plan to explore the trips more in the future but for now, all I like is the mood lifting properties. The way to avoid trips and just get the good effects is to take the right dose. As I said, it's hard to find the right amount but after you do you will be all set.

YBC, I'm glad it worked for you.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Griffonia simplicifolia: 5-HTP [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #3408196 - 11/25/04 03:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i am using it for the melting summer devilish conga.
what i find best is the instantant relief of symptoms (unlike the traditional medicines, which may take months to start making effect).
i think the people's little willingness to try something new is because they're closed mind individuals, anyone with a little know how on the subject (or with a little humbleness) sure would not find that absurd to try salvia...
thanks a lot stoney for the good hint! the summer kills me...


FH


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