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InvisibleMOTH
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"Gods loves us".....but why?
    #3387862 - 11/20/04 04:02 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

All my life I've been told, "God loves you." But why?

Why does God love us? I mean, what does God get out of it, do you think?

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3387872 - 11/20/04 04:12 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Because god is not a humanoid. We personify god for the sake of ease of relating the concept.

In actuality, "god" "loves us" because god is the source of all that is. It is the reason we have life and consciousness.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3387875 - 11/20/04 04:14 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God loves us because this instills certain people with a sense of acceptance and appreciation that otherwise would not be there, as these people are not able to simply accept and appreciate who they  are without creating an illusion to fufill this need.

As far as "Why does God love us?", I would contend that the "why?" should be preceded with "What is God?", "Does it actually exist?", and "How do I know it loves me?" :grin:

Of course, I am simpy overstating the obvious. :wink: Time to go play with the puppy. :laugh:  :heart:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3387891 - 11/20/04 04:37 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I think God's an alien.

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OfflineDroz
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3387925 - 11/20/04 04:58 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God is all that exists. Therefore God is angry at us as well. He/she lashes out as us with volcanic eruptions and big hurricanes.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3387928 - 11/20/04 05:02 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God is superconscious. (S)he's aware of us, has watched us grow from childhood, and is aware of our own need to be loved. Awareness is the Key to Love.

Some people may not need that love - but I do. Without God - well, I can't imagine. My personality is built to love God. I was atheist for maybe a period of three years when I was around 15 to 17. At 18 I forfeited myself to God's love, around the same time I was doing psychedelics for the first time which created an interesting esoteric mix that one would expect to come later in life.

Needless to say atheists are simply missing out on alot of love - but they don't need it, so all is good.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3387940 - 11/20/04 05:08 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

In short, God loves us because He is God. If he didn't, he wouldn't be God. That's why God is perfect.


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Anonymous

Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3387942 - 11/20/04 05:09 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Without God - well, I can't imagine.




no shit!

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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: ]
    #3387963 - 11/20/04 05:15 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

What's that supposed to mean.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3387984 - 11/20/04 05:21 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Droz said:
God is all that exists. Therefore God is angry at us as well. He/she lashes out as us with volcanic eruptions and big hurricanes.




:rolleyes:

Volcanic eruptions and hurricanes are manifestations of God's fury lashing out at us?  :nonono:

Quote:

zahudulallah said:
At 18 I forfeited myself to God's love, around the same time I was doing psychedelics for the first time which created an interesting esoteric mix that one would expect to come later in life.




That is, you forfeited yourself to your own love and, for some reason, believed the love was coming from "God".

Quote:


Needless to say atheists are simply missing out on alot of love - but they don't need it, so all is good.




Ja, atheists are indeed missing out on a lot of love that they could be creating for themselves... or perhaps they aren't missing out on it at all... perhaps they just don't claim the love is coming from anything but themself. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDroz
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3387999 - 11/20/04 05:27 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

So Fireworks God, where would they come from if not from God.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388012 - 11/20/04 05:33 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Is that you in your signiture?

I really like your puppy.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3388065 - 11/20/04 05:52 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Droz said:
So Fireworks God, where would they come from if not from God.




Well, if you take the view that everything is of God, then, subsequently, volcanoes and hurricanes would come "from" "God". :wink:

In any case, there are real, observable, knowable causes of hurricanes and of volcanoes. Believe it or not, but there are people who center their entire lives around the study of these natural phenomenon. A volcano is born when the magma inside the Earth builds up pressure and emerges through cracks in the Earth's surface. I don't know what specifically creates a hurricane, but I know it involves different areas of pressure and of different temperature coming into contact. I'd suggest Googling it. :grin:

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
Is that you in your signiture? 

I really like your puppy.




Ja, that is me, holding my new Norwegian Elkhound pup, Odin. :wink:

I just discovered that the poor fella has worms  :frown:, I have to look into taking him to a vet (he was getting taken in anyways, since I just got him and he needs a checkup and all).

Cutest puppy I've ever seen!  :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinezahudulallah
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Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388070 - 11/20/04 05:54 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God is wholly other. The superconsciousness and we are consciousness. I hear people say "we are gods" all the time - but you can tell if they are just being egocentric or not. A friend of mine one time couldn't shut up about his "creative powers" after reading NITBITBIEHTA (acronym) by Bob Frissell. Not everyone who claims "have God within" is actually accurate. Some people have a purely egocentric idea of Eastern spirituality. It's like Rumi's story about the Pharoah and Hallaj. Both claimed to be God - however one assertion was filled with ego and duality while the other was filled with Truth and non-duality.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3388104 - 11/20/04 06:10 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zahudulallah said:
Not everyone who claims "have God within" is actually accurate. Some people have a purely egocentric idea of Eastern spirituality. It's like Rumi's story about the Pharoah and Hallaj. Both claimed to be God - however one assertion was filled with ego and duality while the other was filled with Truth and non-duality.




But if God is super-consciousness, and we humans have consciousness, thereby an extension of God, does it matter what we claim, even if it is an assertion filled with filled with ego and duality? If being conscious is having God within, then everyone has God within, no matter what people claim with that.

On that note, how does superconsciousness (my guess is that this means some ultimate, central consciousness that all consciousness is derived from) give love to people who are conscious? Pure consciousness exists beyond thought and therefore is empty and without form. It requires some sort of structure powered by that consciousness (i.e. a mind) to be able to be aware that one is aware and to offer or experience love. Pure awareness is the silent observer that sustains life, but that pure awareness is empty and formless, like water. Any feeling of love while under the influence of consciousness is derived from oneself and their mind. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinezahudulallah
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Posts: 10,579
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388132 - 11/20/04 06:23 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Ask Markos.  :smirk:


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3388155 - 11/20/04 06:34 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

"I just discovered that the poor fella has worms , I have to look into taking him to a vet (he was getting taken in anyways, since I just got him and he needs a checkup and all).

Cutest puppy I've ever seen! "


You take a good care of him now


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3388171 - 11/20/04 06:39 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zahudulallah said:
Ask Markos.  :smirk:




Indeed. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineskystone
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388253 - 11/20/04 07:51 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

If you knew everything about your friend, you would have total understanding of him and love him. Love is kind of a natural state of mind. Lack of love comes from lack of understanding.
And since god is everything, he understands everything, and therefore loves everything.


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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OfflineGomp
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: skystone]
    #3388284 - 11/20/04 08:09 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

""All my life I've been told, "God loves you." But why?""

that is why, but, gods love, is lost in translation, it could really mean "creation Love's everything", and is really telling you to share the love you should feel for yourself, as for anyone? :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3388316 - 11/20/04 08:27 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

My personal view is that we are all part of a unified whole. Some people might refer to this as God; I don't, because it is fundamentally different than God as a concious creator.

As far as God's love...
Love is an important part of life. But, I'm not entirely sure what it means, "god loves us".

Quote:


I think God's an alien.




What do you mean by this?


ps. Hope your visit with your parents goes well.

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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388339 - 11/20/04 08:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

"A volcano is born when the magma inside the Earth builds up pressure and emerges through cracks in the Earth's surface. I don't know what specifically creates a hurricane, but I know it involves different areas of pressure and of different temperature coming into contact. I'd suggest Googling it."


Since God IS God who created this world and our infinite universe most things are probably under his control; control posessed because he set the world in motion and with his infinite wisdom/knowledge set the motion in such a way that it would erupt at a specific time/specific amount etc. Since this world is fallen and everything goes back to the earth when life ends it would make sense that negative things like hurricanes/volcanoes happen.


Also, why wouldn't God love us?

It wouldn't make sense if he didn't because he created us! Why would he even bother otherwise?


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OfflineDroz
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388456 - 11/20/04 09:38 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Fireworks_God - So are you saying there is some kind of seperation between God and Nature?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3388478 - 11/20/04 09:43 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
"Since God IS God who created this world and our infinite universe most things are probably under his control; control posessed because he set the world in motion and with his infinite wisdom/knowledge set the motion in such a way that it would erupt at a specific time/specific amount etc. Since this world is fallen and everything goes back to the earth when life ends it would make sense that negative things like hurricanes/volcanoes happen.




Hurricanes and volcanoes are not "negative". The view of a creator in control, orchestrating events of his seperate Creation are outdated and baseless. Who is labeling a hurricane or a volcano as being "negative"? Is it you? "God" certainly isn't defining natural events as negative, especially not ones that, if they did not exist, the world would not be as it is now. No volcanos = no life. So, how is a volcano negative? From which perspective is it negative?

No experience is either "negative" or "positive", it requires a mind to judge experiences and to label those experiences as "negative" or "positive".

Further explain this idea that "this world is fallen". In which sense is it fallen? From what is it fallen?

Quote:


Also, why wouldn't God love us?

It wouldn't make sense if he didn't because he created us! Why would he even bother otherwise?




This is not logic and it does not prove a point. It assumes (without any personal or objective experience to validate the assumption) that there is a "God", and that he "created" us. Why would God love us, and why wouldn't he bother if he didn't love us? You do not know God or his intentions, if there even was a knowable God responsible for Creation in the first place. Playing silly mental games that assume God has knowable intentions with no logical thinking or validation is what doesn't make any sense here. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3388514 - 11/20/04 09:53 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God created us becuase it gives him pleasure. It's stated in the bible. Of course he loves us, it's human kind that has to decide whether we will return the love, take the gift from Christ, and live peacefully and in GRACE. That is how I feel.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388541 - 11/20/04 10:03 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
God created us becuase it gives him pleasure.  It's stated in the bible.




How does the fact that the Bible testifies this as true actually give us the verification we need to know that it is indeed true? How is the Bible right on this? How do you know this?

Quote:


Of course he loves us,




You speak as if you have reason to know that "he" does. What is your reasoning behind your reassured attitude that he loves us?

Quote:


it's human kind that has to decide whether we will return the love, take the gift from Christ, and live peacefully and in GRACE.  That is how I feel.




How do we return this love from him? How do we know that this love is in fact coming from some external being? Is it possible to live peacefully and in "grace" if one doesn't make a baseless assumption about a being and his suspossed love?

There is no objective verification of any of this, and there isn't even any personal experience that verifies a God and his love, which matters even more. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 5,395
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388563 - 11/20/04 10:10 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I think you're playing "Devil's advocate" against God.....which isn't really smart. The bible IS truth. That is all there is to it. If it is written in the bible that God created us for his pleasure and gave his only begotten son for our sins, I have no right to question it. Cute puppy by the way.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388609 - 11/20/04 10:20 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The bible IS truth.




Quote:

the last sane moment we ever knew was on the plains of Africa 15,000 years ago rocked in the cradle of the Great Horned Mushroom Goddess before... phonetic alphabets and monotheism...




:confused:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388631 - 11/20/04 10:28 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
I think you're playing "Devil's advocate" against God.....which isn't really smart.  The bible IS truth.  That is all there is to it.  If it is written in the bible that God created us for his pleasure and gave his only begotten son for our sins, I have no right to question it.  Cute puppy by the way.




I think you are playing Devil's advocate for the Bible. :grin:

If you honestly do regard the Bible as Truth and feel that you have no right to question it, then you do not use your mind in any effective, proper manner. How does it feel to be programmed? What makes the Bible Truth and what gives The Bible the right to not be questioned? :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
AmateurGairologist

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 5,395
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388636 - 11/20/04 10:29 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

See my new thread.  :smirk:


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
AmateurGairologist

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 5,395
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388647 - 11/20/04 10:32 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I am far from "programmed". I am faithful.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388677 - 11/20/04 10:39 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What makes the Bible Truth and what gives The Bible the right to not be questioned?




you didn't answer that part, and neither does your new thread...

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388683 - 11/20/04 10:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
I am far from "programmed". I am faithful.




You say you think objectively and are not programmed.

So answer this: Why is it that you think a book written by humans (who are far from infallable) --and then has been rewritten and edited for centuries and centuries by people who want to do as they please with it-- Why is it that you think this book is the direct word of god?

Do you not realize the error in not questioning this?

Look at the state of most mass religions these days. Do you agree with the way they are all run? Do you not realize that they are run that way because of the very same error?

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3388686 - 11/20/04 10:43 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Because I believe it is written by man from the mouth of god. Is that so hard to believe?


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3388692 - 11/20/04 10:44 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Fine, if you want to get specific about it, the MANUSCRIPTS are truth.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388693 - 11/20/04 10:44 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
Because I believe it is written by man from the mouth of god. Is that so hard to believe?




I can believe that you believe that, though it's pretty tough. I don't believe it myself, and I think it's a pretty fucking weird thing to believe.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: phi1618]
    #3388710 - 11/20/04 10:49 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Ja, it is sorta weird to knowingly delude oneself. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388719 - 11/20/04 10:52 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Ha.....mocking people is pretty rude.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388734 - 11/20/04 10:58 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
Ha.....mocking people is pretty rude.




Not answering people's honest questions in a thread devoted to a topic to which the questions are relevant is not only rude, it is highly suggestive that they do not have any reasonable answer that treads water.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388760 - 11/20/04 11:06 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

It's hard to answer questions when they are not really questions at all to you. Like

"How does the fact that the Bible testifies this as true actually give us the verification we need to know that it is indeed true? How is the Bible right on this? How do you know this?"

These are not questions in my mind. It's just how it is.

"How do we return this love from him? How do we know that this love is in fact coming from some external being? Is it possible to live peacefully and in "grace" if one doesn't make a baseless assumption about a being and his suspossed love?"

1. All you have to do to return God's love is to believe in him and stay in his word. Talk to him like you would your flesh father. Tell him you love him, it's not that hard.

2.It is written in the bible, which I wholeheartedly believe in.

3.You can never live in Grace (I was referring to God's grace) if you do not believe. You will get by, maybe even make some money. But you won't have the crown of life on your head when this world is of no consequence anymore.

Better?


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388782 - 11/20/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I applaud your efforts to answer my questions, but your questions point towards a mind that is holding beliefs that it has no real basis or reason for holding. You, once again, have absolutely no objective or personal experience which will verify or even give real suggestion to the existance of a God, or the unquestionable truth of the Bible.

If my questions are not really questions than you because your beliefs are so wired into your mind, then there is a problem on your end, and it involves holding irrefutable beliefs when you have absolutely nothing to base them on.

Spirituality requires one to question and to not hold beliefs or ideas that interfere with one's direct perception of reality as it occurs. As you hold assumptions that have no base, and hold them with such a degree that you will not even question them, then you are very far from spiritual truth indeed. You are deluded, essentially.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388868 - 11/20/04 11:31 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God gives his wisdom freely to those who seek it. How can you expect to understand the things of God when you are not seeking him with all your fibers?

You are attempting to debate with the wisdom of God.

And how can I or anyone convince you other wise? We can not

The knowledge and grace that God has givin me I cannot give to you.

Nether can anyone else.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388910 - 11/20/04 11:40 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I have come to the conclusion that you will not and cannot even hear me out. You are right, oh hail the great fireworks god. You are nothing more than a troublemaker, casting doubt (or attempting to) on potential believers. And in the final hour I will not mind that you are going to die the second death.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3388915 - 11/20/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Not at all, it is impossible to debate with wisdom of an entity that is not known and has never been experienced. Nothing is giving anyone any wisdom, you are collecting it yourself by your own means. How can you expect to see reality as it is when you are straining yourself in an attempt to know something outside of what is presentable in this reality? No point in delusion, if God is going to be witnessed, it will be in this very moment, and any belief or assumption based on nothing presented in observable reality is only going to blind you to the very thing you seek in such vanity.

"I contend that the state of Michigan floats in the air and is not accessible to anyone on this planet. Anyone believing they are from the state of Michigan is living in delusion, anyone who thinks Michigan is a real state is ignorant. I cannot do anything to demonstrate to you that Michigan floats in the air and cannot be accessed by humans because you do not make effort to believe it. I cannot pass to you this heavenly knowledge of the true state of Michigan, you will have to force yourself to believe it on your own." :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388918 - 11/20/04 11:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And in the final hour I will not mind that you are going to die the second death.




Brutal - condemned a fate worse than the first death for chopping the wrong logic.


Edit: fixed typo

Edited by phi1618 (11/20/04 11:43 AM)

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: phi1618]
    #3388947 - 11/20/04 11:48 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I will not be the one condemning. You have a choice whether you live eternally or die the second death. But I just have a feeling this one isn't going anywhere good. He'll probably even drive Satan crazy.
Brutal- Yes
Fair- Very much so.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3388949 - 11/20/04 11:48 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with the "unified whole" idea. I'm not sure I would say I believe in a "God" per se, though you could call it that. I believe in an omnipresent force in the universe which binds us all. It would probably be most comparable to the Tao.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388951 - 11/20/04 11:49 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
I have come to the conclusion that you will not and cannot even hear me out.  You are right, oh hail the great fireworks god.  You are nothing more than a troublemaker, casting doubt (or attempting to) on potential believers.  And in the final hour I will not mind that you are going to die the second death.


:lol:

It is hard to hear someone out when they do not present in any logical or reasonable way what "I cannot hear out".

Since when is stressing the importance of questioning one's beliefs and of taking real, conscious responsibility for oneself and their mind "trouble-making?"

When the man walked up to me and said he could start himself on fire, then precede to fly by flapping his arms, and, as a spectacular finale, ascend into Heaven, I admit that I casted doubt on his proposal. Alas, he would not allow for his belief in his abilities to be questioned, and he did so precede to start himself on fire... I admit it was rather amusing, watching a burning man flail his arms in a vain attempt to fly. Even when he still had a chance to stop, drop, and roll, in order to save his own life, he continued to flap his arms, as his belief was so unquestionable and unverifiably "right". I'm sad to say that his rapid movements of his arms actually caused him to burn quicker, exposing the flames to more and more oxygen.... :shocked:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388958 - 11/20/04 11:51 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
I will not be the one condemning. You have a choice whether you live eternally or die the second death. But I just have a feeling this one isn't going anywhere good. He'll probably even drive Satan crazy.
Brutal- Yes
Fair- Very much so.



Please spare me the bullshit scare tactics. Please explain to me how the cognitive function of believing or not believing in a particular mythology makes any difference in whether or not I am a good person or not. And please do explain how being condemned to Hell for such skepticism is anywhere approaching fairness.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3388969 - 11/20/04 11:55 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Not at all, it is impossible to debate with wisdom of an entity that is not known and has never been experienced. Nothing is giving anyone any wisdom, you are collecting it yourself by your own means. How can you expect to see reality as it is when you are straining yourself in an attempt to know something outside of what is presentable in this reality? No point in delusion, if God is going to be witnessed, it will be in this very moment, and any belief or assumption based on nothing presented in observable reality is only going to blind you to the very thing you seek in such vanity.

"I contend that the state of Michigan floats in the air and is not accessible to anyone on this planet. Anyone believing they are from the state of Michigan is living in delusion, anyone who thinks Michigan is a real state is ignorant. I cannot do anything to demonstrate to you that Michigan floats in the air and cannot be accessed by humans because you do not make effort to believe it. I cannot pass to you this heavenly knowledge of the true state of Michigan, you will have to force yourself to believe it on your own." :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:





See what I mean? read your post again. :rolleyes:

It will not matter what I say. You have made up your mind I am full of shit.

That's ok......I felt the same way for many years until I truly was a seeker of God and put aside my own thoughts and sought his.

It looks like me and you have come to a end. I wish you the best of luck with your limited understanding of God and his ways. I will ask God to open a few doors of understanding for you friend :grin:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3388974 - 11/20/04 11:57 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

It's black and white my goatse friend. You believe and live in the word, you live eternally. You don't believe, you don't live in the word, you die the second death and are washed away for the human waste that you are. That's Biblical. I'm not judging anybody here, it is written. If that scares you, that is your problem. I have not an ounce of fear.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3388977 - 11/20/04 11:58 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I love how religious people dodge questions by going on the defensive and claiming that we've already made up our minds. Do you really expect us to just "get it" without you explaining your position? Those of us who haven't made up our minds like to question things. And if you can't answer those questions, then don't be surprised when we don't swallow your ideas whole.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3388986 - 11/20/04 11:59 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
It's black and white my goatse friend. You believe and live in the word, you live eternally. You don't believe, you don't live in the word, you die the second death and are washed away for the human waste that you are. That's Biblical. I'm not judging anybody here, it is written. If that scares you, that is your problem. I have not an ounce of fear.



I see you have not answered my questions. HOW is this fair? And HOW does it have any bearing on my merit as a person?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3388993 - 11/20/04 12:02 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

What do you want me to say that God came to me in the night riding a chariot of fire??

Or that Jesus himself walked up to me at church?

Or that I healed a 8 year old child from hundreds of warts?
Or that I started a homeless shelter under the direction of God and saved hundreds of street people from dying?

Or I was told to drive 300 miles not knowing where I was going until I meet this guy who was about to blow his brains out.


I have never claimed to be religous you did. I claim to have a private realtionship with God. Nothing more.

Ask your questions I will answer them.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

Edited by Fucknuckle (11/20/04 12:08 PM)

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389006 - 11/20/04 12:06 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

"Please spare me the bullshit scare tactics. Please explain to me how the cognitive function of believing or not believing in a particular mythology makes any difference in whether or not I am a good person or not. And please do explain how being condemned to Hell for such skepticism is anywhere approaching fairness."-You

It's not bullshit. It's not mythology. It is fair because you have the opportunity to become better. You choose not to, not His fault. He warned all of us, some just don't listen. Get it?


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389012 - 11/20/04 12:07 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
It's not bullshit. It's not mythology. It is fair because you have the opportunity to become better. You choose not to, not His fault. He warned all of us, some just don't listen. Get it?



Except for the part about how believing something which I've been given no rational reason to believe somehow makes me "better." God gave me logic, and I intend to use it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389020 - 11/20/04 12:09 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Person 1 puts faith unconditionally in what they believe, without any intent to waver on their beliefs. They hold fast to their beliefs in all situations.

Person 2 questions the beliefs of others, as well as THEIR OWN beliefs, for the sake of maintaining a grounded state of being without allowing POSSIBLY false beliefs to cloud their judgement.

Which one has "already made up their mind?" Which one is close-minded?

Beliefs are healthy until one stops questioning their beliefs. Then they become dangerous. Unquestioned beliefs are what lead to things like planes flying into the world trade center.

I'm sorry that I have to use such an extreme example to make my point, but that seems to be what it has come to...

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389024 - 11/20/04 12:10 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

man, that's some passive-aggressive bullshit. "You're gonna burn for disagreeing with me, and you deserve it. But, it's not my will, oh no, it's God's will, see?"

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389047 - 11/20/04 12:15 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Like I said, I could write forever and you'll still doubt because you have not found God. He's there, you just haven't given your love to him or read his letter that he has written to all his faithful believers (the Bible). Once and if you give yourself to him (he already owns you by the way) it will be so much clearer. So much more "rational" as you put it.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: phi1618]
    #3389054 - 11/20/04 12:17 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Did I say he was going to burn for disagreeing with me? NO. But surely he will burn for hating and disagreeing with God.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389055 - 11/20/04 12:17 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
Like I said, I could write forever and you'll still doubt because you have not found God.



Ah, so more cop-outs and no rational debate. Very well, then. Enjoy your blind faith. I hope it suits you well.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389063 - 11/20/04 12:18 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

That is one line of what I wrote to you.....good job on focusing on the unimportant.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389070 - 11/20/04 12:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I focused on that one line because the rest was irrational gibberish hardly worth responding to.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389071 - 11/20/04 12:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Feel free to respond to my last post to fucknuckle. The questions were directed towards both of you.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3389076 - 11/20/04 12:21 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

God, as you hear it, is dead.
Of course, that's just a metaphore, don't take it personally.

God loves you, if that makes you feel any better.


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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389079 - 11/20/04 12:22 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Ah, so more cop-outs and no rational debate. Very well, then. Enjoy your blind faith. I hope it suits you well.




Faith is only blind until the unseen is known. God will remove the blinders on those who seek him. Very simple


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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389082 - 11/20/04 12:23 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

SEE?!?!?!? THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

You think it's gibberish. How can you even attempt to try to believe if you think what I just wrote is gibberish? It's ridiculous. I made it as plain as I could. You focus on the negative.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3389102 - 11/20/04 12:26 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I am not quite sure about your question and I will not be dragged into a debate that will lead to others attacking me.

My requirements are to love and understand others. I am in no position to convert anyone or brainwash them.

When I get into these debates I feel anger from people. God is not anger. So when I feel anger I know what I am dealing with.

Not saying your angry but there are a few people in here who just wait like Jackles to atack God loving Christians.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389113 - 11/20/04 12:31 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, have it your way. I'll respond to this garbage:

Quote:

He's there, you just haven't given your love to him or read his letter that he has written to all his faithful believers (the Bible).



You're assuming way too much. I've read the Bible. I went to a Catholic High School where I had this shit shoved down my throat for 4 years. I once believed as you did. And I do believe in some sort of higher power that could be called God. Not an invisible man in the sky who smites people, but something much more profound. I do love this entity. I feel its presence all the time. It is so profound, in fact, that it makes any attempt to describe God in words seem incredibly stupid. So, I love God and I've read his supposed word with it many contradictions, and yet I don't believe as you do. What now?

Quote:

Once and if you give yourself to him (he already owns you by the way) it will be so much clearer. So much more "rational" as you put it.



There are rules of reason. A sense of clarity is not the same as reason. Hitler surely believed in his heart of hearts that he was doing the right thing, but that does not make it rational. Faith can be dangerous.


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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3389118 - 11/20/04 12:32 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Person 1 puts faith unconditionally in what they believe, without any intent to waver on their beliefs. They hold fast to their beliefs in all situations.

Person 2 questions the beliefs of others, as well as THEIR OWN beliefs, for the sake of maintaining a grounded state of being without allowing POSSIBLY false beliefs to cloud their judgement.

Which one has "already made up their mind?" Which one is close-minded?

Beliefs are healthy until one stops questioning their beliefs. Then they become dangerous. Unquestioned beliefs are what lead to things like planes flying into the world trade center.

I'm sorry that I have to use such an extreme example to make my point, but that seems to be what it has come to...






Person #1 is a strong-minded person with convictions who holds fast to the truth.

Person #2 is a push-over who will believe anything if it makes them feel all gooey inside.

Call person #1 "close-minded" if you want, but at least they stand for something. I have no reason to question God. Not one reason.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389141 - 11/20/04 12:37 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
I am not quite sure about your question and I will not be dragged into a debate that will lead to others attacking me.

My requirements are to love and understand others. I am in no position to convert anyone or brainwash them.

When I get into these debates I feel anger from people. God is not anger. So when I feel anger I know what I am dealing with.

Not saying your angry but there are a few people in here who just wait like Jackles to atack God loving Christians.




If you are not sure about my question, sit and deliberate on it. THINK about it. Don't just autonomously respond. Think about it, and get back to us. Why do yourself the injustice of not thinking it through?

I am certainly not attacking you, and not trying to drag you into a debate... I am just trying to open YOUR eyes to the fallacy of the logic you are applying.

I assure you I have NO negative intentions towards you. I realize that some people approach christians with a somewhat aggressive tone... I don't think I have done that at all.

I am just trying to illustrate a point for you.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389144 - 11/20/04 12:38 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Have you talked to your Father lately? Prayed? REPENTED? All of these would help a great deal, especially the latter. I repent every day, every man sins. The only perfect man that ever walked the earth was Jesus. And please don't compare Hitler's fucked up mind-set to the likes of a Christian in a church praying. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389148 - 11/20/04 12:39 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Person 1 puts faith unconditionally in what they believe, without any intent to waver on their beliefs. They hold fast to their beliefs in all situations.

Person 2 questions the beliefs of others, as well as THEIR OWN beliefs, for the sake of maintaining a grounded state of being without allowing POSSIBLY false beliefs to cloud their judgement.

Which one has "already made up their mind?" Which one is close-minded?

Beliefs are healthy until one stops questioning their beliefs. Then they become dangerous. Unquestioned beliefs are what lead to things like planes flying into the world trade center.

I'm sorry that I have to use such an extreme example to make my point, but that seems to be what it has come to...






Person #1 is a strong-minded person with convictions who holds fast to the truth.

Person #2 is a push-over who will believe anything if it makes them feel all gooey inside.

Call person #1 "close-minded" if you want, but at least they stand for something.  I have no reason to question God.  Not one reason.




Wow. That was a really twisted interpretation. Okay, I'm done with this thread. That was my best non-aggressive approach I could possibly think of to help you. Peace and love, I hope you figure it out someday.  :heart:  :sun:

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3389154 - 11/20/04 12:40 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, don't worry about me man. I'm not.

Edited by McKennaFan200 (11/20/04 12:40 PM)

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3389159 - 11/20/04 12:42 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Because God is us.

And you have to love yourself, or else reality sucks, and you don't evolve as a spirit. :sun:


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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389161 - 11/20/04 12:42 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
Have you talked to your Father lately? Prayed? REPENTED? All of these would help a great deal, especially the latter.



I used to do all those things regularly. I was once a man of deep faith and conviction. But then I grew up and realized these things were not helping me.

Quote:

I repent every day, every man sins.



I acknowledge my flaws. I don't see the need to repent them to anyone other than myself.

Quote:

The only perfect man that ever walked the earth was Jesus.



You have never met Jesus in person, and thus have no basis for saying that other than what has been written down long after his death.

Quote:

And please don't compare Hitler's fucked up mind-set to the likes of a Christian in a church praying. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.



Blind faith is blind faith, any way you slice it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3389190 - 11/20/04 12:49 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
I am just trying to open YOUR eyes to the fallacy of the logic you are applying.

I assure you I have NO negative intentions towards you. I realize that some people approach christians with a somewhat aggressive tone... I don't think I have done that at all.

I am just trying to illustrate a point for you.




How can you get me to see a point that God himself has already proven wrong to me several hunderd times and in dozens of ways.

I am sorry but I know what I know and that is it. When I have grabbed a child hands in the heat of worship and prayer guided by God and pray over the child. And you see hundreds of nasty warts just vanish before your eyes :eek:

Then the words of Man and ideas of Man mean nothing.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389198 - 11/20/04 12:52 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
Have you talked to your Father lately?  Prayed?  REPENTED? All of these would help a great deal, especially the latter.



I used to do all those things regularly.  I was once a man of deep faith and conviction.  But then I grew up and realized these things were not helping me.

Quote:

I repent every day, every man sins.



I acknowledge my flaws.  I don't see the need to repent them to anyone other than myself.

Quote:

The only perfect man that ever walked the earth was Jesus.



You have never met Jesus in person, and thus have no basis for saying that other than what has been written down long after his death.

Quote:

And please don't compare Hitler's fucked up mind-set to the likes of a Christian in a church praying.  FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.



Blind faith is blind faith, any way you slice it.





I try not to say things like this but......... I am sorry to say that if this is your experience than it is possiable that you never really had a realationship with Jesus. :heart:

Because all the things that you did not get are givin to you by Christ.


I have seen Jesus in person and he is cool :grin:


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389202 - 11/20/04 12:54 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Just because you do not SEE something at work, doesn't mean it isn't at work. I am talking about your first response, "these things were not helping me". Oh God will help you, you lean on him and he'll lean right back on you. I don't know why I have to explain this stuff to you, if you know God's word and were deeply religous at one point.
It's not BLIND FAITH. Do you know why I believe in God? Because he helps me, I just ask for his help, boom. I haven't done any drugs in a week, do you know why? God. I asked for his strength to become a better person if it was in his will. Always pray "If it is in thy will" followed by asking for blessings in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Bless you.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389215 - 11/20/04 12:57 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I'm done with this thread.  Either you do not understand logic or have forsaken it for something you find more fulfilling.  I wish the best of luck to you.  And may your narrow-minded worldview bring you much happiness. :sun:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389219 - 11/20/04 12:58 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Hey That is somewhat messed up.....

You have the right to have your own will.

Please.............

If it's God's wiil you should stop using drugs. No No No

It is your will to stop using drugs and God gives you the power to stop using drugs.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389224 - 11/20/04 01:00 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

OK, I tried hard, some people just don't want to listen I guess.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389229 - 11/20/04 01:01 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
OK, I tried hard, some people just don't want to listen I guess.



Indeed.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389230 - 11/20/04 01:01 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

What are we gonna do with these kids Fucknuckle? They're breaking my heart


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389234 - 11/20/04 01:03 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
OK, I tried hard, some people just don't want to listen I guess.





Quote:

McKennaFan200 said:
What are we gonna do with these kids Fucknuckle?  They're breaking my heart




Funny, I'm over here saying the exact same things...  :rolleyes:

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389236 - 11/20/04 01:04 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, that part came out wrong. I know I make my own choices.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3389243 - 11/20/04 01:05 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

It is funny isn't it....we just want eachother to be happy for the most part without being "misguided" or what have you.....


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389247 - 11/20/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

You cannoit doing anything to these KIDS LOL LOL thats funny

and the biggest problem with christians today

You must live by example and speak with soft words of encouragment.

Nothing more unless asked By the spirt.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3389249 - 11/20/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Oh Swami, where art thou?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389290 - 11/20/04 01:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

How can swami get in on it when he doesn't even beleive in God or a God or whatever it is people beleive in that judges and damns or rewards them?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3389294 - 11/20/04 01:21 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

He can explain logical fallacies much better than I can, and also seems to have more patience.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3389356 - 11/20/04 01:46 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Well this tread like many before it just like it, has gotten no where.

Some people ask for truth
Some people say it isn't true
Some people say God is false
Some say he is real
Some people asked for some examples of God's truth in my life
I answered but they do not engage further.

The only choice they have is.... I lie or "We" lie


As I have said many many times in the past with many many people.

Seek God in a very personal and real way and he will show himself to you.

Do not seek and stand on your own feeble understanding of things greater than yourself and that is exactly what you get.

Yourself


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It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389427 - 11/20/04 02:12 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to say first that i read everything and i am thankful that nobody fell into an angry debate which is what usually happens when non-believers and believers discuss their beliefs.

Then i'd like to ask to the believers, what they think they're life would be like if the bible had never existed and if no one had ever preached anything to them. Do you really think your life would be that much worse than it is now?

And also, I was wondering if it was possible for such people to admit the possibility that their passion of the Christ finds its source in psychological needs, such as reassurance, consolation and comfort?

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3389431 - 11/20/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
He can explain logical fallacies much better than I can, and also seems to have more patience.




Do you think swami finding logical fallacies with a beleif in God/a god or experiences with God/a god are going to change any of their beleifs?

If they are happy and feel at peace and empowered with them, why even bother? If someone was saying, "I've beleived in God all my life and now, I don't want to, talk me out of it"- then swamis your man.

No one here who beleives wants to be or asked to be talked out of it. If one attempts to, they will only drive them deeper into their convictions.

This post flew way off topic anyway. The question was "why would God love us?"

I don't beleive their is a God and then us as in two separate things so i can't even address it. If she wants to repost on her "God is an ET playing God" theory, thats another story. :naughty:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: exclusive58]
    #3389449 - 11/20/04 02:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)


I'd like to say first that i read everything and i am thankful that nobody fell into an angry debate which is what usually happens when non-believers and believers discuss their beliefs


When this happens you have a bunch of Men talking and not the spirt of God

Then i'd like to ask to the believers, what they think they're life would be like if the bible had never existed and if no one had ever preached anything to them. Do you really think your life would be that much worse than it is now


God makes his presence known to anyone who seeks him bible or not


And also, I was wondering if it was possible for such people to admit the possibility that their passion of the Christ finds its source in psychological needs, such as reassurance, consolation and comfort?

I have not seen it nor will I


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3389450 - 11/20/04 02:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Gnarg > God


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: psyka]
    #3389462 - 11/20/04 02:24 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

As in Gnarg is superior than God?
hehe

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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3389469 - 11/20/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

When you have the real God show his face to you and perform miracles using your hands then the thought of " Maybe I am tricking myself ? " Goes right out the window.

The stuff that happened in the days of old happens today. I have been a witness to these things. I have been used for such things.

And just like in the days of old they were not believed. And just like today people don't believe, they think we Lie or cheat or something.

But never that God is real and things happen. No this just isn't possiable


But it is and it happens all around you everyday.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: exclusive58]
    #3389470 - 11/20/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Gnarg,

That sounds like a body fluid, the type that surface when you have a bad cold. LOL


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: exclusive58]
    #3389472 - 11/20/04 02:27 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Of course, the Great Gnarg in the Sky will cast sin for 66.6 damage on all who disbelieve the holy religion of Gnargism. He also promises lots of money, and drugs in heaven.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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OfflineMcKennaFan200
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: exclusive58]
    #3389474 - 11/20/04 02:27 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

What if I was a cow pretty much? Haha. Well I really don't know. Thank God I'm not one.

Originally I sought God because I wanted stability in my life. Things were just not getting any better. I thought "Hey, why not give it a try" Haha. I would never say "my passion of christ is rooted in my own selfish needs", because I was just looking for guidance and stability like I said. Since I have been saved life is easier. I know I have purpose, meaning, and their is a future for me. Thank God for....well God really.


--------------------


"It seemed to me culture is a shabby lie. Or at least this culture is a shabby lie. If you work like a dog, you get 260 channels of bad television and a German automobile. What kind of perfection is that?"-McKenna

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: McKennaFan200]
    #3389511 - 11/20/04 02:37 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Be careful why you seek God for help

Asking God for forgiveness is easy to get wrong. God does not want you to be seeking him for the sole purpose to fix your life's problems.

He will but it is a result of you truly seeking forgiveness for the harm you have caused him. Sin is like a bullet to his head. God wants to know that you are truly sorry for hurting him and that you l;ove him and are willing to do his works, the works of love that is.

Gods wants you to love him and love his ways. Seeking God for help only works if you are truly trying to be like Jesus.


Putting everyone else before your own needs, helping thoses around you etc.....


Works like this... the more you are like God and his Love, the more God can work thru you.

The closer You get to God the closer he gets to you

So always check your motives when talking to God. He knows.

Being truly sorry is to put aside your own feelings and putting the feelings of others in the front.

Am I sorry because my life sucks or I am sorry for hurting you.

Huge difference :thumbup:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389538 - 11/20/04 02:44 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
When you have the real God show his face to you and perform miracles using your hands then the thought of " Maybe I am tricking myself ? " Goes right out the window.

The stuff that happened in the days of old happens today. I have been a witness to these things. I have been used for such things.

And just like in the days of old they were not believed. And just like today people don't believe, they think we Lie or cheat or something.

But never that God is real and things happen. No this just isn't possiable


But it is and it happens all around you everyday.




I know l;ts of energy healers. I beleive in energy, light/love- that is the all that is to me and its full of creative intelligence. tapping into it is awesome. I don't disagree you are doing that.

You don't have to justify your beleifs either. I have a different take on the damning hell judgment stuff. As I do not know myself separate from the all that is, I can be the only judge of myself that punishes if I give into guilt save forgiveness and create hellish realities and realms for myself.

Forgiveness is just that to me. We were for-given, given before, free will to choose and create for ourselves. I think the whatever it is wiped it's hands after that. people live in their own self punishing hells here via guilt. Sould that take guilt with them live in a hell of their own in the lower astral until help arrives and it does-no one gets stuck there for eternity.

I beleive in these things because I experience them to be so and no one can change my mind about them, I live in the experience of it.

The Bible and religion is man made territory to me. I hang out in the cosmos and write my own truths as I live them, as everyone is and should be allowed to do.

FN, i know fear gets used a lot to motivate people and it can be quite a motivational tool. Love, love of self and others can be used just the same and is much more pleasant and fullfilling to be moved by love then it is by fear.

Doing something only because you fear a punishment or disaster is sort of lame. Now look at it this way, why doesn't some one NOT want to experience punishment or disaster? Because they love themselves. You have that to work with and the Bible or religion never have to come into the picture.

fear is what causes what we fear to happen unless we transition it. The first inklings of fear is our souls way of telling us we are slipping out of harmony and to move back into love.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389543 - 11/20/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Well do you at least admit that the actual representation that you have of god might be a little off?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3389545 - 11/20/04 02:47 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

THE metaphysic of Christianity is defined in 1 John 4:8 which says that "God is love." One has to understand that this means the Eternal Nature, the Ground of Being is 'Love as an Eternal State of Being.' This is a different meaning than the personification that GOD loves us. It does not mean that GOD doesn't love creation, but it does mean that what transpires between GOD and humans is of a higher order than what we usually attribute to the word love.

By way of parallel, because one cannot define a word by itself, is the Hindu concept of GOD as Sat-Chit-Ananda which can be translated Being-Knowledge-Bliss.
Being indicates the Absolute Eternal Existence; Knowledge means Gnosis [gyan, in Sanskrit] which means that the Knower, Knowledge and Known are one Subject; and Bliss elucidates not only a Divine attribute, but how we experience GOD - as bliss. Putting it all together, one Realizes the Bliss in which we simultaneously Know and are Known by Eternal Being, which means we are Blissfully One with Eternal Life. Human love, Compassionate and passionate, sexual and brotherly-sisterly, paternal-maternal, empathetic-sympathetic, are but very veiled glimpses of the Divine Nature which IS love.

Whenever we are filled with and act upon love in selflessness, it is the Divine Nature acting through us ("I live; yet not I, Christ liveth in me.") The closest that people come to this Divine Love occurs in mystical union - Illumination, Enlightenment, Ecstasy, Sahaj Samadhi, Fana, Satori just to name a few traditions' terms for it. This is the "not I," the "Thou" not the "I" which surrounds and permeates all of creation. Most people are as unaware of the omnipresence of GOD as fish seem to be unaware that they are in water ("In Christ we live and move and have our being").

If 'I' truly love you, then it is the Eternal 'I AM' in me Who loves the Eternal 'I AM' in you. It seems personal, like MY love and YOUR love, but it is really the Transpersonal 'Infinite Ocean' of Love that experiences Itself in your Center and my Center, and though we may be a thousand miles apart physically, your Center and my Center are the SAME Center, because GOD is ONE. The Zen way to say it is there seem to be as many Moons as there are puddles, lakes and oceans to reflect the Moon's image, but there is really only one Moon. There is only ONE GOD and many Hearts to reflect the ONE GOD Who/Which IS LOVE.

Shalom. Salaam. Shanti. Pax. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3389565 - 11/20/04 02:53 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

You have hit the nail on the head with the fear thing. If anyone really reads what Jesus taught. He never said anything like that. Well he did but that is not what he means.

One of the reasons I don't concider myself a religous man is because of that crap.

To fear God does not mean you Fear him. Rather it means that you are aware of what it means to live without him.

To respect him
To love him


Example I love and fear my wife. Meaning that I love her and need her but I fear what will happen if I cheat on her or hurt her in some great way. She will leave me and that I fear

Same with fearing God. Knowing that God has loved me in many powerful ways I fear him in the sense that I would just freak out if he left me. I love him and need him everyday.


Many Christians get it very wrong Because they are as from from God as the Devil.

It is sad to me and that is why God has led me away from Religious Churches.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3389612 - 11/20/04 03:05 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

It sounds like it works for you so, I don't care to take that away from you.

For me , it's different, because I can't separate myself from the life force that I AM created from "the creator" so it can never leave me and I can never be without it as i am it experiencing myself in density and limited form.

Jesus is someone I have a personal relationship with, i know the cosmic christ and he's soo cool. I don't know him as the Bible portrays him.  he's in my heart and we have two way convos when ever I want. Some times, he use to speak through me until he wanted me to stop seeing him, the christed aspect of him separate from myself and asked that when i want to come from a christed perspective, to trust my own Christ within.

Now, he's just like a cool friend, that loves and understands me with the greatest of compassion and talks to me straight. Better then that, he asks me questions back and leads me back into my own inner source of wisdom. He really doesn't like anyone dependent on him, because his goal is to teach people, they are the same as him and to find him within themselves.

Blah Blah anyway :hug:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3389626 - 11/20/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Yes exactly......... I almost 100% agree with you


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3392829 - 11/21/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, this thread got long.  I was away for a few days with family, so I'll put a few of my thoughts here now. 

Basically, I spend a lot of my time considering the nature of God.  I have a lot of theories, ranging from the practical to the absurd, but I consider everything. 

At present, I believe in 'God' as a universal energy (consciousness), a universal pattern that everything in existence is constructed of.  There is nothing that is not 'God.' 

I believe that all the different religions and faiths are just different paths to the same Source. 

I never bought into the whole "Father in Heaven" thing.  I believe 'God' transcends all gender. 

I read the Bible, but it does not get a "withhold-your-reasoning-skills" pass from me.  I try to keep in mind that the Bible was written by falliable men, divinely-inspired or not. 

The thing is, I'm comfortable in my beliefs, but not fanatical about them.  I am open and willing to allow my beliefs to evolve as I grow as an individual.  I really enjoy discussing what religion or spirituality means to other people, no matter what their beliefs.  I try to be a good listener, because people love to be heard when it comes to speaking from the heart, myself included.  Religion is the most compelling force on this planet. 

I turned from the Religion of Christianity because I need to discover things out for myself, instead of having it taught to me while I passively listen.  I don't call myself a Christian anymore because that word paints a certain image in people's eyes that I do not want associated with myself.  Nonetheless, I am an avid Bible reader, speak to 'God' everyday and have genuine adoration and love for Jesus Christ.  I don't know if this makes me a "Christian" or not.  Probably not, because I give other religions credit too.  I try not to worry too much about how I'm viewed religiously anymore.  I'll be what I am, you know? 

I have a lot of Biblical knowledge from my upbringing, and am always researching different religions.  What interests me the most is the parallels I find between many of them in my reading. 

As for the original question of 'God's' love, I think a couple of you answered it very well, and thanks for the input.  I wasn't trying to start a debate or a fight...just simply asking a question that interested me.  I usually lurk in S&P because the rabid nature of some of the posters in here can be intimidating.  But I appreciate what everyone brings to the table, so anyway, time for bed!  :sun:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3392842 - 11/21/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Ellemysh, you are going to Hell for giving people the oppurtunity to question their beliefs. :evil:

:lol: Your views certainly are a little more inspired and open than some expressed here... :wink: :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: MOTH]
    #3393605 - 11/21/04 04:35 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Self forgiveness IS God's forgiveness...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
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Re: "Gods loves us".....but why? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3394512 - 11/21/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
"Since God IS God who created this world and our infinite universe most things are probably under his control; control posessed because he set the world in motion and with his infinite wisdom/knowledge set the motion in such a way that it would erupt at a specific time/specific amount etc. Since this world is fallen and everything goes back to the earth when life ends it would make sense that negative things like hurricanes/volcanoes happen.




Hurricanes and volcanoes are not "negative". The view of a creator in control, orchestrating events of his seperate Creation are outdated and baseless. Who is labeling a hurricane or a volcano as being "negative"? Is it you? "God" certainly isn't defining natural events as negative, especially not ones that, if they did not exist, the world would not be as it is now. No volcanos = no life. So, how is a volcano negative? From which perspective is it negative?

No experience is either "negative" or "positive", it requires a mind to judge experiences and to label those experiences as "negative" or "positive".

Further explain this idea that "this world is fallen". In which sense is it fallen? From what is it fallen?

Quote:


Also, why wouldn't God love us?

It wouldn't make sense if he didn't because he created us! Why would he even bother otherwise?




This is not logic and it does not prove a point. It assumes (without any personal or objective experience to validate the assumption) that there is a "God", and that he "created" us. Why would God love us, and why wouldn't he bother if he didn't love us? You do not know God or his intentions, if there even was a knowable God responsible for Creation in the first place. Playing silly mental games that assume God has knowable intentions with no logical thinking or validation is what doesn't make any sense here. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




"You do not know God or his intentions, if there even was a knowable God responsible for Creation in the first place."

Actually I do know God, I might not understand fully God, but I know him none the less; the Bible points out pretty plainly what his intentions are.

"Playing silly mental games that assume God has knowable intentions with no logical thinking or validation is what doesn't make any sense here. :wink:"

Where is the logic or validation in saying that there ISN'T God. The very obviousness of God is incredible.

"silly mental games" seem to follow some form of logic. Otherwise how could they be mind games in the first place? :lol:

"Who is labeling a hurricane or a volcano as being "negative"? Is it you?"

This whole "negative" argument makes as much since as me attacking you
about say,  saying what you say isn't "logical". What defines logic is it you? Maybe logic is anything that someone other than yourself states... .... ... right......

Yeh I was labeling a volcano/hurricane as negative with respect to how it has power to destroy life.

"This is not logic and it does not prove a point."

It's not logical because you don't believe in God and refuse anything that's not based on "fact". What is actually fact you ignore. (not necessarily what I say but the world around you.)

Edited by ld50negative1 (11/21/04 08:26 PM)

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