Home | Community | Message Board


Original Seeds Store - Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar?
    #3384817 - 11/19/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

What exactly are the implications of having a weak/weakening dollar?

Also, what is it that is directly contributing to the constant fluctuations, and in this case what seems to be an unusually rapid diminishing value of the American dollar?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3384921 - 11/19/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

This is from a post I made in the thread "How large is the American debt, really?"



The effects of a weakened dollar won't be seen immediately; exporters frequently price their goods in the currency of the target economy, so prices won't immediately rise in response to a weaker dollar.

A weaker dollar is likely to lead to inflationary pressure, more expensive imports (non-agricultural commodities and many manufactured goods will increase in price), increased exports (good for US manufacturers) - this last effect may decrease unemployment. In a tight job market, wages will increase - though probably not untill prices increase. If unemployment is high, wages won't increase and workers will have to pay more for goods.

A benefit to American capitallists is that American's assets held overseas will increase in dollar-value, while foreigners assets in America won't (as a result of changing exchange rates). This is significant because foreiners own more American assets than Americans own foreign assets (about $2 trillion difference). This means that Americans pay foreigners more interest on things we've already consumed than visa-versa, but a decline in the dollar will decrease this effect.



Quote:

what is it that is directly contributing to the constant fluctuations



Since 1972 and the end of the Bretton-Woods system, world currencies have been fiat currencies freely floating against each other on the world markets. Contrary to the views of many economists before that time, this has led to major instability in exchange rates.
You can read a paper by Paul Krugman here:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/ExchangeRates.html


The recent fall of the American dollar is probably a response to our increasing current account deficit. We keep sending more dollars overseas than we take in foreign currency. This has been the case for about 20 years, and was never the case before then. The reason our currency didn't begin to fall earlier is that the Chinese (and other countries) have pegged their currency to ours. This results in the Chinese buying plenty of American debt, which propps up the dollar. The reason its falling exactly now... :shrugs: The insane optimism of the late 90s probably has something to do with it.


Here's an interesting quote from the above article:
Quote:

At the same time, particular exchange rate fluctuations have seemed to depart clearly from any reasonable valuation. The run-up of the dollar in late 1984, for example, brought it to a level that priced U.S. industry out of many markets. The trade deficits that would have resulted could not have been sustained indefinitely, implying that the dollar would have to decline over time. Yet investors, by being willing to hold dollar-denominated bonds with only small interest premiums, were implicitly forecasting that the dollar would decline only slowly. Stephen Marris and I both pointed out that if the dollar were to decline as slowly as the market appeared to believe, growing U.S. interest payments to foreigners would outpace any decline in the trade deficit, implying an explosive and hence impossible growth in foreign debt. It was therefore apparent that the market was overvaluing the dollar.





Overall, I think it is necessary that the dollar fall, and has been for some time. The dollar falling isn't a bad thing in itself, but is a symptom of underlying illness in the American economy.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: phi1618]
    #3384938 - 11/19/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

if youre studying in the uk for a year, you're goddamn right its a problem :mad2:


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: Tao]
    #3384957 - 11/19/04 05:08 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

ouch.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: phi1618]
    #3385285 - 11/19/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Nice post phi! I myself don't see it as a symptom of any illness per se but a natural homeostatic action within tolerable bounds of noramative fluctuation


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3385305 - 11/19/04 06:20 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

I guess the "illness" i'm refering to is the current account deficit.

I think that there the benefits to Americans from a devalued dollar will outweigh the bad effects, but the current account deficit, which might be part of the cause of the devalued dollar, is likely to have pernicious effects for a long time.

The current account deficit is caused by irresponsible spending on the part of both households and government, ecouraged by Chinese, and other foreign, lenders.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3385643 - 11/19/04 07:41 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Also, what is it that is directly contributing to the constant fluctuations, and in this case what seems to be an unusually rapid diminishing value of the American dollar?

The dollar is tied to absolutely NOTHING but trust (used to be gold). In Federal terms it does actually grow on trees. When the goverment needs more money, it simply prints it, thereby devaluing every single cent that you have in savings and what you get in your paycheck.

Homes prices are skyrocketing (REAL estate, not FAKE estate), because more dollars are printed every single year.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: Swami]
    #3386988 - 11/20/04 01:28 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

i think this dollar value thing is hype... u.s.a. will just keep getting richer and richer, until the poor people rebel.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: phi1618]
    #3388406 - 11/20/04 11:21 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

interesting..now just out of curiosity are there any real arguments against the idea that the federal reserve is a scam?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3388664 - 11/20/04 12:37 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

now just out of curiosity are there any real arguments against the idea that the federal reserve is a scam?





how do you know the fed a scam?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 12 days, 20 hours
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: phi1618]
    #3388725 - 11/20/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

FACT#1 . The Federal Reserve is a private corporation, owned and controlled mostly by foreign bankers.

FACT#2. How the Federal Reserve banks work (using a 10% reserve requirement).

1. F.R. "creates" $1,000,000 worth of "debt certificates" with no assets behind the creation, just the "OK" of Congress, and distributes it to banks.
2. The bank "Holds" the 10% reserve as operating capital ($100,000) and loans the rest out at 10% interest.
3. The bank pockets $90,000 in interest, and accepts the $900,000 back as a deposit.
4. The bank retains 10% of the $900,000 deposit as a reserve, and loans out the $810,000 at 10% interest.
5. The process is repeated over and over, with "hard" assets pledged as collateral for these "loans". Thus, it starts with "no money" and ends up with houses, cars, land, silver, gold...real assets...and all it took was some ink, some paper, and the cooperation of Congress.

FACT#3. Congress authorizes the F.R. to purchase U.S.Notes from the U.S. Bureau of Engraving for 2.5 cents per bill (no difference between $1 and $1000 bills). The F.R. then issues an equal amount of "debt certificate" Federal Reserve Notes which they use to purchase U.S. Treasury Bonds. Taxpayers are, supposedly, obligated to pay off these bonds at FULL FACE VALUE, plus the debt of the original currency purchased at 2.5 cents per bill!

FACT#4. The BIRTH of money #2...All credit is based upon the faith and worthiness of the "United States". Congress authorizes various corporations to extend the credit of the United States (as a privilege, not a right) to finance mortgages and other types of credit. You and I could not set up shop to extend credit to others, unless we are licensed and approved by the government. Thus, it is not the mortgage company, with whom you sign a contract, who extends you credit...they are only an "agent"... it is the United States who is the party with standing, and the only entity which can sue or foreclose for breech of the contract. BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT! Then there is the credit contract itself...a fraud perpetrated upon the buyer everytime. It is another means of "creation" of money. There is no "money" exchanged in the mortgage transaction. It is a book entry made by the "agent" which "monetizes" the value of the real thing, the property involved. No contract is valid except both parties bring something of value, called "consideration", to seal the contract. You are bringing the property, and the promise of future payments...they bring nothing but the ability to create credit...a congressional "okie-dokie"...to the contract. Thus the government fraudulently claims superior ownership rights to the property involved, and the ability to charge the "tenant" rent (called property taxes) for the privilege of using paper credit.

FACT#5. The taxes paid by Americans never provide ANY services to our country...all collected income tax money goes DIRECTLY to the F.R. Board (check the back of ANY check sent to the IRS...it is true).

FACT #6. All U.S currency is "Federal Reserve Notes" of debt, owed to the Federal Reserve, and is borrowed into existence. How can you pay the debt when you have to "borrow" the currency to pay the debt, FROM THE GUYS YOU ALREADY OWE? It is like paying off your VISA card using THE SAME VISA CARD...the interest just keeps growing, and no principal is ever paid! It is a ponzi scheme....a scam...and America is the mark!

Thus, the national debt can never be repaid. It is not meant to be repaid.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (11/20/04 12:56 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: Rono]
    #3389097 - 11/20/04 02:26 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

that's interesting. There's alot in there i don't understand. but, i will. if you have any confirming sources (i'm a skeptic when it comes to random internet sites) or additional materials, please share them. I will be looking into this further. right now, i've been up for a couple days, so i'll wait a bit to really get started.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 12 days, 20 hours
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: phi1618]
    #3389222 - 11/20/04 02:59 PM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Here's a few more links to get you started...

Actual Federal Reserve Web Site...(for Kansas City)

Opposing views.

Objective Facts

Personally, I'm still on the fence as to what I believe.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (11/20/04 03:01 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: Rono]
    #3391170 - 11/21/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Thank you Rono, you've given us information that everyone should be aware of regarding central banks, the U.S. Federal Reserve is but one example of a type of legalized criminal organization that is committing fraud and theft all over the world against all people.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: Rono]
    #3391750 - 11/21/04 02:57 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Even if half of that is truth it made me sick to my stomach....


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Re: Is anybody in the least concerned about the diminishing dollar? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3399427 - 11/23/04 06:27 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)



The direct impact of the falling dollar is easiest to see: in general, it boosts the value of any investment denominated in a strengthening foreign currency. Even if the value of that foreign stock or bond stays flat in terms of the local currency, you?ll make money (by holding it while that local currency strengthens against the dollar) when you sell it and convert the proceeds back into dollars. That?s one reason many financial advisors recommend putting some of your investments in foreign stocks or bonds.

Keep in mind that, while the dollar usually moves the same way against other countries currencies, that?s not always the case. When you hear it reported that ?the dollar is falling,? that?s usually short-hand for a comparison with the euro and the Japanese yen. (Right now, for example, the value of the dollar is doing just fine against the Colombian peso and the Sri Lankan rupee). [Note: After this column was originally published, a reader correctly pointed out that, as of late November 2004, the Colombian peso was strengthening against the dollar, thank you very much. It turns out the Web site we originally consulted to research the answer gave us a faulty quote.] So it also matters where you invest and just what currency is being used to denominate your investment.

The falling dollar also hurts some companies in countries with rising currencies. The people who make Volkswagens, for example, get paid in euros; the sticker price on the cars shipped to American is based on the cost of making the car, plus a profit. Now, if the dollar falls, Volkswagen gets less money when it converts those dollars back into euros. Only one of two things can happen: either the company makes do with less profit (it could also cuts wages, but that?s not likely) or it raises the sticker price in the U.S. That?s good news for General Motors and Ford, because their cars are now ?cheaper? by comparison.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3403854/?GT1=5807


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* paper money as currency?Inflation? stock HOW?? fake economy?
( 1 2 all )
kaiowas 1,990 22 08/26/03 10:37 AM
by Anonymous
* The War To Save The U.S. Dollar Lumocolor 685 10 08/12/04 10:04 PM
by Ed1
* What happens if Saudi Arabia decouples its currency with the $ vintage_gonzo 698 5 02/11/08 10:05 PM
by iateshaggy
* China: We will use a "nuclear option" dollar sell off.
( 1 2 all )
The_Red_Crayon 1,684 24 08/13/07 01:12 PM
by johnm214
* American currency phi1618 526 5 03/19/05 11:11 PM
by phi1618
* Euro VS Dollar
( 1 2 all )
GazzBut 2,031 22 10/08/03 09:51 AM
by infidelGOD
* Iran and Venezuela: Petition Opec to peg oil to currency other then USD$ The_Red_Crayon 646 6 11/20/07 06:24 PM
by EntheogenicPeace
* China calls for new global currency
( 1 2 3 all )
Ferris 2,030 46 03/29/09 12:52 AM
by mockingbird

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
778 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:

Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.066 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.