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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods
    #3382275 - 11/19/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Spinning off from the other kratom thread here....
So it seems I'm not the only one who has found water extractions unsatisfactory for kratom. The problem is that removing the boiled plant matter weakens the tea significantly, while leaving it in produces a nauseating product.

This thread is for establishing a better tek for taking kratom.
I have a good amount of material to experiment with, so I will be trying the water extraction method a few more times, being more careful and boiling longer.

But whether that ends up working or not, there might be better ways, so if anyone has ideas post them here.

Here is basic Mitragynine info from erowid chemistry if it helps anyone:

NAME : mitragynine
CHEMICAL NAME : 9-methoxy-corynantheidine
CHEMICAL FORMULA C23H30N2O4
BOILING POINT : Freebase: 230-240? C
MOLECULAR WEIGHT : 398.495
SOLUABLE IN : alcohol, chloroform, acetic acid


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #3382850 - 11/19/04 04:55 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Do you acidify your brew? It makes a world of difference.


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OfflineFunkey
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #3382872 - 11/19/04 05:04 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Lately I allways make the brew with an expresso-machine. It seems to extract the alkaloids much better, it goes very fast and I haven't experienced nausea anymore.


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Funkey]
    #3382883 - 11/19/04 05:10 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Super critical extractions are awsome  :thumbup:


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OfflineAelph
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #3383060 - 11/19/04 08:29 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

I see that it is soluable in acetic acid.... add a few drops of vinegar to the water. That should help in the extraction and not add much to the taste.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #3391108 - 11/21/04 12:09 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

>>Super critical extractions are awsome

Espresso machines are not as good as one would think. I've read much about their usage increasing extractions of alkaloids from many plant matters, including coffee, to be a misnomer, but widely believed by all. This won't hold true for all things, but coffee it does, make me suspiscious of everything now.


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: neuro]
    #3392621 - 11/21/04 11:37 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

I've only used my stove top expresso maker with poppy pods, and for that it's great. I can't comment on other materials, but I'm willing to try it with kratom.


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InvisibleLocus
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #3392679 - 11/21/04 12:15 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

to me, water extractions work fine.

i think the best way is to just get the premium powder, add hot water, and drink it all up including the powder. though that is a little more expensive.


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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Locus]
    #3392702 - 11/21/04 12:34 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

neuro, why do you say the expresso maker isn't so good? It will take anything out that water can extract and many things insoluable in cool or even hot water. The water is going through a vapor stage as it passes through and is a froth of steam and boiling water. It will take out just about everything from what you are using. You could put a little vinegar in the water or lemon juice to get more, I suppose. Might not be good to leave that in the maker very long and not at all if it's aluminum.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFunkey
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3392851 - 11/21/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Sometimes when I have to get out of bed at 4 a.m. to go to my work, I fill the expresso machine with a spoon of coffee and 2 spoons of premium grade kratom powder to get me through the morning and found it to be a perfect morning ally! If it wasn't addictive, I think I would do this every morning.

A little while ago I made a pure kratom-expresso and tasted the remaing pulp afterwards, and it had absolutely no bitter taste anymore.


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SING WHILE YOU MAY...


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InvisibleLocus
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Funkey]
    #3392900 - 11/21/04 02:07 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

in my opinion, it really isn't so addictive. i think in terms of addiction, it really pales in comparison to opiates.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3393047 - 11/21/04 02:55 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

>>neuro, why do you say the expresso maker isn't so good? It will take anything out that water can extract and many things insoluable in cool or even hot water. The water is going through a vapor stage as it passes through and is a froth of steam and boiling water. It will take out just about everything from what you are using.

I'm not saying specifically it isn't so good. But I'm skeptical of its hailed and praised efficiency. The idea is good, hot forced steam, but in the case of coffee espresso from an espresso maker contains less caffiene than coffee made in a drop and stand system. It sounds counter-intuitive I know. The reasoning was that the process is too quick in the espresso maker so even though it seems like a super-critical hot compression, it's really not.

Now I don't think this means that the method the espresso maker employs is bad and yields not a good product as thought, but i think it's the espresso makers themselves.

I read this about 2 weeks ago in a book I was reading for one of my classes, now I can't seem to find it. It was in one of those boxes that is set aside from the main text and it's pissing me off that i can't find it again. It had exact numbers and everything.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: neuro]
    #3393365 - 11/21/04 05:31 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

The expresso maker is not 100% efficient. You need at least 2 passes to get all the goodies but it takes about 5 minutes per pass with no muss, no fuss. It's nearly foolproof which makes it attractive. As to the supercritical fluid theory, it seems to work, that's all I can say. Since the water is in transition between gas and liquid it does make sense. It will bring through stuff that's not water soluable or just slightly soluable. For making poppy tea it's the nuts.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinenamaste
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3393773 - 11/21/04 07:10 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

This is my idea. Any Suggestions?

10 mg premium powder
2 oz Everclear
1 0z lemon juice

Place materials in glass jar for a few hours. Put into coffe filter and run two cups through. Split with a friend.

Or just drink all in a tea.

What's the purpose of boiling it?


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: namaste]
    #3393775 - 11/21/04 07:11 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

don't you mean gram?


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: gdman]
    #3393979 - 11/21/04 07:48 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

yeah, gram. So would it be an efficient method?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: namaste]
    #3394145 - 11/21/04 08:46 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

I don't think you need the alcohol. That would impact on the effect a lot. People just boil it in water or add a little lemon juice to the water. Boiling helps disolve the goodies.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3394312 - 11/21/04 09:33 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

I'll take your word for it, and try the boiling with lemon juice.


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InvisibleLifenergy
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: namaste]
    #3394329 - 11/21/04 09:40 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Acidity always helps bring the alkaloids out! You won't be dissapointed.


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.


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Offlineesin
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Re: Improving Kratom Ingestion Methods [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3394521 - 11/21/04 10:22 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

I did a water extraction, a few drops of vinegar added (so it wouldn't make the taste worse than it already is), 10g of powdered kratom, boiled twice and filtered well. Mild effects.

The next day i made a tea with 6g and drank grounds and all.
Much much better effects. Reminded me of the first times i ate a nice amount of clean MDMA just not so speedy. Intense euphoria and an amazing body high. Never tried opiates so i can't compare.

So i also got the idea water extractions are not that good, even with acidity present. Or perhaps i should have just added more acid.

A possible alternative may be 2g parachutes. I've seen people do that with powdered mushrooms. They should be a bit big but small enough to be swallowed, i think.
If someone were to ingest 3 or 4 of those i'm sure he'd have nice effects...
Will try that next weekend.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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