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OfflineSt0ned
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Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!!
    #3380854 - 11/18/04 07:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Does anyone at all know how to cultivate porcini(Boletus edulis) in captivity??? Please let me know


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: St0ned]
    #3381175 - 11/18/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Not at all, Boletus edulis is a mycorrhizal species and so far escapes all cultivation attempts.


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Offlineoceansize
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Anno]
    #3382330 - 11/19/04 01:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Porcini is delicious.  so delicious that in italy signs in restaurant windows say "WE HAVE FUNGUS!" :smile:


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OfflineB.I.O.
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: oceansize]
    #3382735 - 11/19/04 03:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

until today nobody could grow boletes (mycorrhiza), but as truffles and chantrelles show, it is possible to grow mycorrhizal fungi,
one i did a tissue-culture of a boletus edulis and grew the mycelium on agar
then made a liquid culture and inoculated invitro grown oaks (the roots) with
the mycelial solution...i planted the oaks in a controlled environment...last time i pulled an oak out of the soil and the mycelium showed growth on and around the roots...thats all until now

BiO.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Anno]
    #3387329 - 11/20/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I know where some wild boletes grow every year, sometimes as tall as 8-10 inches high.

I've never gotten them professionally ID'd though. I think most boletes are toxic.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3387602 - 11/20/04 04:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>I think most boletes are toxic.

Actually only a few boletes are toxic, none are deadly toxic.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3388311 - 11/20/04 10:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As Anno said most boletes are not toxic. There
are three rules to follow for ediblity:

If they have red or orange pores, don't eat.

If they bruise blue, don't eat.

If they are bitter, don't eat.

There are exceptions, boletes that have these
characteristics that are edible, but these
are the rules to follow to avoid eating
a poisonous bolete.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: B.I.O.]
    #3388329 - 11/20/04 10:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

B.I.O. ,very cool!


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InvisiblePeterthinks
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: falcon]
    #3393073 - 11/21/04 03:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



Boletes are some of the easiest to ID.
My first wild find that I ate anyway.:jester:


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Peterthinks]
    #3393376 - 11/21/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm, looks yummi  :tongue:


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Peterthinks]
    #3393803 - 11/21/04 07:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nice! I found a couple of small
scaber stalks this fall, they're
good.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: B.I.O.]
    #3397246 - 11/23/04 08:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Have found this paper, which lists several factors that might influence the successful indoor cultivation of wild fungi and even mycorrhizal species.

Here is an excerpt:

Quote:


Part 1. Mycorrhizal mushrooms

by R. Winder

Recently, I posted some information to Internet about the
possibilities of cultivating mycorrhizal mushrooms, fungi which
are highly prized by gourmets but which don't ordinarily fruit
under artificial conditions, it stirred up quite a reaction, so Ill
summarize the discussion here.
It all started when Paul Stewart of P.E.I. posted a request
for more information on the culture of mycorrhizal mushrooms.
He has grown mycelia of Boletus edulis, chanterelles, and
slippery jacks, and was interested in any information that might
help him produce mushrooms from the cultures. I responded
with some guesses' about factors to worry about, some of
which I will back up here by citing some literature. Most of
these factors are probably inter-related.

- Mycelium integrity and size. Mushrooms like B. edulis
can be quite large. Such mushrooms probably need to achieve
a certain mycelial size before they commit water and nutrients
to a fruiting body (6). This is probably one of the reasons that
deep dish cultures with modified Hagem-Modess media can be
used to produce Leccinum, Tylopilus, Xerocomus, and Boletus
mushrooms in culture, including B. rubinellus (6) and B. edulis
(5). Some reports suggest that truffle fruiting bodies eventually
become independent from their host (14), so this may be a
dynamic variable.

- Water relations. Even if resources have been committed
to a fruiting body, larger mushrooms might abort if the medium
becomes too dry. Proper water flow could also be involved in
wicking away inhibitory waste compounds or by-products such
as phenolics.

- Nutrient flux. A clear source-sink flow of nutrients may
need to be established, as outlined in methods which can be
used to reliably produce morel sclerotia (1) as well as patented
methods for growing morels in artificial culture (8). A disruption
of this flux might also be a necessary stress for inducing
fruiting.

-Inhibitors. In the case of deliberately produced inhibitors,
rain might be a signal. It is known that some fungi produce
diffusible compounds (cerebrosides) which encourage the
formation of fruiting bodies - so inhibitors may also be present.
By way of analogy, plant seeds often require water to leach
away inhibitors linked with dormancy. In artificial culture, there
may be an unintentional accumulation of inhibitors or waste
products because a closed system is being used. Armillaria is
an interesting mushroom to talk about with regard to inhibitors.
Depending on concentration and type, phenolic compounds
can inhibit or stimulate the growth of this fungus (10). Orange
slices are often added to media to stimulate formation of
Armillaria mushrooms (10). It may be that the ascorbic acid
(vitamin C) in the orange counteracts the effects of phenolic
compounds in the media. Ascorbic acid is often used in plant
tissue culture to deal with the problem of accumulated phenolic
wastes.

-Templates. Microscopic fungi which do not ordinarily
produce fruiting bodies in liquid culture often produce them if
something solid is added to the medium. In agar media with
plant pieces, these fungi often prefer to form fruiting bodies on
the plant pieces. In Agaricus culture, texture of the surface
casing layer can be important in determining the density of
primordia. So for Armillaria culture, the addition of orange
peels also provides a good hunk of cellulose which probably
acts as a nutritious growth template.

-Seasonal factors. The B. edulis in my front yard always
fruits exactly on Canada day (July 1), with the deeper Amanita
muscaria 2 days behind. This might be a direct effect of day
length or photoperiod. However, there may be a more indirect
explanation for the timing of mycorrhizal mushroom fruiting
since they are, after all, symbiotically connected to plants.
Plant growth hormones are intimately involved in the formation
of mycorrhizal associations, and might also be involved in the
fruiting of the fungal symbiont. I've used the plant growth
hormone IAA to trigger the formation of morel sclerotia. Other
hormones such as abscisic acid, ethylene, or cytokinins might
be involved. Temperature is another important seasonal aspect
- B. edulis fruits between 20-26 degrees C (5).

-Nutrients. Mycologists like media that are simple to
prepare, with simple sugars like glucose and sucrose.
However, mycorrhizal mushrooms aren't necessarily living on
simple sugars like an ordinary saprophyte - they are getting at
least some of their nutrients from tree roots. Tree sap has a
mixture of different sugars and amino acids - some not found in
popular growth media. There are also more complex
compounds to consider, like pectins, suberin, and various other
components of plant cell walls and plant tissues. In some
cases, there might be a requirement for a physiological trigger
from a living plant symbiont, such as phosphorylated
compounds, nucleotides, glycolipids, etc. (just guessing here!)
On a more basic level, the approach of Paul Stewart to
chanterelle culture is a good one. He compared soil where
chanterelles grow with nearby soil, and found that chanterelles
seem to bioaccumulate manganese, boron, and calcium in
significant quantities. Manganese and calcium have also been
found to stimulated morel growth, along with wood extract.
There has been some work on nutrients required for growth of
Boletus spp. (9), chanterelles (11), and truffles (7). I'll leave
morels, which some reports say can be mycorrhizal, for a
column of their own.


-Other microbes. Chanterelles incorporate the bacterium
Pseudomonas fluorescens into the mushroom, possibly the
result of some sort of symbiosis (2). Levels of bacteria in
truffles (Tuber spp.) are also high (7). It may be that bacterial
cell wall components like n-acetyl-glucosamine could be
incorporated into the medium to avoid the contamination
problems posed by these symbionts. Some soil bacteria
produce ion-absorbing compounds known as ionophores -
symbiotic association with these bacteria might be an
additional way for mushrooms to accumulate nutrients. In
Agaricus culture, various microbes aid in mushroom formation
by providing competitive stress or an environmental cue (12).
They can also aid in spore germination. Recently, Mike Ziegler
of snowy Vermont posted to internet his discovery that growing
two fungi together in the same culture has allowed him to
produce fruiting bodies of Grifola frondosa (sheep's head or
hen-of-the-woods). The implications for culture of mycorrhizal
mushrooms are there: I have three isolated grand fir trees
which support mycelia of B. edulis, Amanita muscaria, A.
pantherina, Helvella lacunosa, and a couple of other
mushrooms I haven't bothered to identify. The point is, they are
all living together quite happily.
After I posted this information, Lewis Melville at the
University of Guelph said that he has published a book,
Practical Methods in Mycorrhiza Research, which contains
information on culturing and isolating ectomycorrhizal fungi. It
is available from Mycologue Publications, 8728 Lochside Drive,
Sidney, B.C. V8L 1M8, Canada, for $23 US. Lewis says that
culturing endomycorrhizal fungi is usually done in pot cultures
with a living host plant. From my own files, I've found a
reference to culture of the ectomycorrhizal Laccaria spp. using
this method (13), as well as desert truffles (3).
Richard Kerrigan, who works for the friendly people at
Sylvan Spawn Labs, added a point. He says that Station
Champignons, a research lab at INRA-Bordeaux, has been
conducting successful research on cultivation of mycorrhizal
fungi, including truffles and Lactarius, for over 15 years. The
contact there is Dr. J.-M.' Olivier, BP 81, 33883 Villenave
d'Ornon, France. Richard also mentioned that although culture
of matsutake (Tricholoma matsutake) has been unsuccessful
to date, Dr. Makoto Ogawa of Japan has been working on this
topic. If anyone finds a B.C. matsutake (T. magnivelare, a.k.a,
pine mushroom) I would like to get a piece of it for culturing.





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Offlineilex
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: ragadinks]
    #3397267 - 11/23/04 08:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's possible to inoculate suitable trees but AFAIK to get boletus mushrooms, inoculation must be made on adult trees (over 30 years)


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: St0ned]
    #3400538 - 11/23/04 10:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You could try inoculating bonsai trees. I've actually read at this page: http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/Pines.html that it is recommendeded to harvest mycelium from the ground under pines as a supplement to bonsai soil. According to that page, conifers always grow in really poor soil and are almost completely on mycorhizzal fungi for continuing life. I am going to be trying it with a few species over the next few years. I am going to be growing several temperate trees as bonsai come next spring. Aspens for Scaber Stalk mushrooms, American Beech for chantrelles, Ponderosa Pine or Jack Pine for Matsutake and the King with some undecided conifer. I have room for many trees, so I was planning on several methods. I am going to try spore mass inoculation into the root mass, inoculate bonsai soil from soil under fruitings, by mushroom tissue inoculation, or by liquid fermentation.


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InvisibleSpeeker

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Posts: 649
Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3401699 - 11/24/04 02:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

From those bonsai trees you then get bonsai mushrooms, eh?  :grin:


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: ragadinks]
    #3406631 - 11/25/04 01:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey ragadinks,

I've seen this paper before , but missed this part:

10). It may be that the ascorbic acid
(vitamin C) in the orange counteracts the effects of phenolic
compounds in the media. Ascorbic acid is often used in plant
tissue culture to deal with the problem of accumulated phenolic
wastes.


I have a honey mushroom culture going. I'm soaking a vitamin C
tablet and I'm going to pour it through some straw that has
honey mushroom growing on it.
I missed this part too
He says that Station
Champignons, a research lab at INRA-Bordeaux, has been
conducting successful research on cultivation of mycorrhizal
fungi, including truffles and Lactarius, for over 15 years. The
contact there is Dr. J.-M.' Olivier, BP 81, 33883 Villenave
d'Ornon, France. Richard also mentioned that although culture
of matsutake (Tricholoma matsutake) has been unsuccessful
to date, Dr. Makoto Ogawa of Japan has been working on this
topic.
  This is very  encouraging.

I love Lactarius volumis :grin:


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: falcon]
    #3407000 - 11/25/04 03:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, that part about the ascorbic acid also gives me hope that I can fruit the armillaria ostoyae I have ...
Let me know how your experiments with Vitamin C turn out !

> I love Lactarius volumis
Would be really great if someone would be able to grow them, but I doubt that it will work without having a lot of time and a good lab ...


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: ragadinks]
    #3408109 - 11/25/04 02:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Good luck with the ostoyae.

I poured a cup of water with a vitamin C tablet 500mg
through about a gallon of colonized straw. I also added
about a 7 ml to a .375 L jar of colonized
sawdust.

I wonder what else the vitamin C would work with.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: Speeker]
    #3411813 - 11/26/04 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That would be awesome, but I'm not going to expect it. Although, I may plant some morel sclerotia in with a few bonsais.... Bonsai soil is very poor, and they are watered very little everyday. I bet morels would form if it were placed outside during the season.

IMHO, this bonsai inoculation is a lot easier and cheaper than the technique used by the folks who grew chantrelles. If the mycorhizzae took at a reasonable rate then massive amounts of trees could be inoculated and then planted outside in an outdoor mycorhizzal mushroom farm. If the trees or fruits could be harvested it would be even better. The more crops that can be harvested on a given piece of land, the better. Think along the lines of a pick-your-own apple orchard with a spring pick-your-own morel "orchard" or a christmas tree farm with a pick-your-own porcini in Summer and early fall. One might also be able to associate chantrelles and hazelnuts.


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InvisiblePeterthinks
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Re: Growing Porcini(Boletus edulis)!!! [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3412406 - 11/26/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How about getting a bunch of acorns to sprout and mixing them in with the spawn and food?
Does it have to be a 30 year old tree?
The bolete I pick are in with scrub bush...no big trees there.:jester:


--------------------
Give a man a fire and he will be warm for the rest of the night.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
NEWB NEWBIE NEWCOMER IGNORANT? QUESTIONS?
Click HERE HERE HERE HERE For detailed instructions with pictures on how to grow mushrooms. There is a lot of info on the Shroomery and this is what you need to know.


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