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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
You're welcome, Mr. Red.
    #3380461 - 11/18/04 06:43 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

http://www.thestranger.com/2004-11-11/feature.html

too long to embed...but an interesting read...the interesting
points come along about midway.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleSteinM
Stranger
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Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 35,129
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: afoaf]
    #3380522 - 11/18/04 06:56 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

We live on a chain of islands. We are citizens of the Urban Archipelago, the United Cities of America. We live on islands of sanity, liberalism, and compassion--New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, Seattle, St. Louis, Minneapolis, San Francisco, and on and on.




This is the funniest article I've ever read. Im booking cruise tickets to these islands right away, I could use a vacation away from reality.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: afoaf]
    #3380568 - 11/18/04 07:04 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

What's with this cities vs. the country? Someone's been reading too much Titor...:smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: trendal]
    #3380632 - 11/18/04 07:15 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

<snip>
Conservatives have vilified liberals for decades, and the new urban identity politics gives the Democratic Party its own partisan villains. The truth is that rural states--the same red states that vote reflexively Republican in national elections--are welfare states. While red-state voters like to complain about "tax-and-spend liberals," red states are hopelessly dependent on the largess of the federal government to prop up their dwindling rural population. Red states like North Dakota, New Mexico, Mississippi, Alaska, West Virginia, Montana, Alabama, South Dakota, and Arkansas top the list of federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid. And who's paying the most? Blue states. Cities--and states dominated by their cities. Welfare states, in contrast, demand federal money to fund wasteful roads to nowhere. Welfare states guzzle barrel upon barrel of oil so their rural residents can sputter along on ribbons of asphalt.

Take a state like Wyoming, the arid, under-populated home of our glowering vice president Dick Cheney. Wyoming receives the second-highest amount of federal aid in the nation per capita (Alaska, another red state, is number one), and it ranks second lowest in federal taxes paid (behind only South Dakota). Overall, the federal government spent about $2,413 per capita in Wyoming for the fiscal year 2002 (the last year for which data is available), compared with almost exactly half that amount, or $1,205 per capita, for Washington State. This ridiculous disparity extends even to Homeland Security funds, which ought to be targeted toward the most vulnerable areas--coastlines, big city landmarks, porous borders. But landlocked Wyoming, with exactly zero important strategic targets, merits $38.31 per capita in Homeland Security funds. New York state residents get a measly $5.47. An urban agenda would argue for kicking Wyoming off the federal dole. States should pay their own way, not come to cities begging for handouts.

A refusal to subsidize rural waste will inform other policy decisions as well. Farm subsidies, for example, are obsolete and they cause needless friction in international trade agreements. The agricultural complex in the United States is so concentrated that very few voters have a personal stake in the continued existence of farm subsidies. Rural voters aren't going to switch party affiliations no matter what we do, so let's jettison their issues when they fail to serve our core interests. Ethanol, a corn-derived alcohol, is another great example. Scientific consensus says that corn will never be a viable source for alternative fuel, since the very production of ethanol requires so much fossil fuel and the payoff is paltry. Ethanol is vanity research; the new urban politics should stand for real solutions.

In the same way, we need to claim legislation like the Clean Air Act as our own. It is urban residents, not rural residents, who suffer when air quality is poor, and coal mines in rural states cannot dictate what size airborne particulates we should be willing to breathe. Asthma is a growing problem across the nation, but it is particularly acute among African American and Latino children growing up in the inner cities--the death rate from asthma complications is three times as high for minority children as it is for whites. This is unacceptable, and it's just one example of an issue urban residents can and should rally behind.
</snip>


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: afoaf]
    #3380895 - 11/18/04 08:07 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

i can by a nice house here in texas for about 50,000$. in new york or san fran that same house would be 500,000$. you can play with any numbers.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: afoaf]
    #3381039 - 11/18/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Dude I live in chicago and this city is fucked. Millions of dollars are embezzled every year from tolls and mayor daley's fraudulent businesses and organizations. Hundreds of mob people's and connected people's family members and kids are on the city payroll as workers who dont work a day in thier lives. It fucked, and these morons just take it up the ass because god forbid they should vote for someone other than a democrat. The people here think that if republicans come into power, we will revert to the days of slavery, segregation, and the oppression of women. I guess they dont really follow the news much. Oh and if you are gay you have to vote democrat, its an unwritten rule, so our gay community is a big reason why we are a blue state.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381313 - 11/18/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

yeah, but I get paid 3 times what I could in texas, nevermind
the fact that cali really is 10x better than texas anywho...

you gotta pay the price for this goodness...ya heard!?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: afoaf]
    #3381341 - 11/18/04 09:37 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

i have heard great things about cali.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: afoaf]
    #3381789 - 11/18/04 11:02 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

They--rural, red-state voters, the denizens of the exurbs--are not real Americans. They are rubes, fools, and hate-mongers.




:rotfl: funny..but true...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Loc: South Texas
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3381837 - 11/18/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

kill the white man!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Catalysis]
    #3382289 - 11/19/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Millions of dollars are embezzled every year from tolls and mayor daley's fraudulent businesses and organizations. Hundreds of mob people's and connected people's family members and kids are on the city payroll as workers who dont work a day in thier lives.




you should come to LA...You'll be runnin back to Chi town.


Quote:

gay community is a big reason why we are a blue state




don't blame the fags....You have the third largest city (not to mention damn near the coolest) in America and one of the most liberal at that. I'm lecturing you on your own damn city but I find it hard to believe if you chased all the homos and gangsters out of the city it would wave a red flag. Like a republican would make it a bastion of justice...Thats city hall of any city big or small red or blue


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3385736 - 11/19/04 07:58 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

gay community is a big reason why we are a blue state




don't blame the fags....You have the third largest city (not to mention damn near the coolest) in America and one of the most liberal at that. I'm lecturing you on your own damn city but I find it hard to believe if you chased all the homos and gangsters out of the city it would wave a red flag. Like a republican would make it a bastion of justice...Thats city hall of any city big or small red or blue




Haha, well i guess i came off the wrong way there. This is nothing against gays or anything, i was just trying to convey the overall atmosphere here...Its interesting and unique to say the least. We have a surplus of the minority/women/gay/anti-white male age 18-40 crusaders here. Now there is nothing wrong with equality and that would be the perfect society, the problem is that all these people want thier own to have privledges and benefits not afforded to others. Women want equal rights until it comes to divorce law, african-americans want equal rights until it comes to affermative action, illegal aliens want rights given to legal workers, ad-nauseum.. There is also a culture of self-hating whites, jews, blacks, you name it. Its a great city of course, just a little twisted politically.


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Catalysis]
    #3385839 - 11/19/04 08:20 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Here's an interesting article about how those "red" states (with some of the most impoverished populations, especially in rural communities that are dying out due to their inability to compete with huge multi-national corporate farms) could, in a sense, turn "green" - http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41&ItemID=6590

I don't think a secession of the coasts (and parts of the midwest) is going to occur anytime soon, so if we want to "win" over the "red" states, maybe we could appeal to them with a different strategy...


--------------------




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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Krishna]
    #3385912 - 11/19/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Krishna said:
Here's an interesting article about how those "red" states (with some of the most impoverished populations, especially in rural communities that are dying out due to their inability to compete with huge multi-national corporate farms) could, in a sense, turn "green" - http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41&ItemID=6590

I don't think a secession of the coasts (and parts of the midwest) is going to occur anytime soon, so if we want to "win" over the "red" states, maybe we could appeal to them with a different strategy...




As someone who leans to the right, I can tell you that many of the people in red states want to vote democrat. But the liberals just seem to go out of thier way to make it so damn hard. The US is founded on, and has been an ownership society since its inception and thats not gonna change so they need to start by giving up on the whole socialism thing. Second, instead of pandering to multiple minority groups (i dont mean racial minorities) they need to listen to the majority for once, a democracy caters to the majority, as hard as it is to swallow for some. The founders of the US did everything they could to not allow those who didnt work and fulfill thier social obligations to form a party and vote themselves a piece of the public treasury. As long as over 60% of americans own property/stock/investments, that wont happen.

It is just a shame because a majority of americans agree with democrats on social (non-monitary) policies and so forth.


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Catalysis]
    #3386037 - 11/19/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

whoa i think you got me wrong there (and i suspect you didn't read the article i posted) - i certainly don't expect rural americans to vote for the democratic party.

and in response to "they need to start by giving up on the whole socialism thing" .... well, if the average american is fine with their government whoring itself out to big money, enacting policies that only benefit the top 1% of society, not to mention the rampant destruction of the environment, a laughable state of health-care, education, and other "public" services - well, that's their choice. it's just unfortunate that by making that choice, they are not only screwing themselves over, but 97% of the rest of the world... you know, to stop those "evil commies", we've got to topple democratically elected governments (talk to anybody from that continent directly below us about this), we have to, in the name of "free trade", continue the plunder of their resources and stop any local business from prospering, etc etc etc.... :sad: it's one thing to shoot yourself in the foot - it's another if the bullet takes out millions more.


--------------------




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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Krishna]
    #3386431 - 11/19/04 10:33 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Well thats great and everything but you act as if the democrats have never been in power. The fact of the matter is they have been in power the last 8 out of 12 years, a majority of the last decade. So Im not quite sure how you can go off on healthcare, education, and public services with that in mind. Care to elaborate?


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Catalysis]
    #3386472 - 11/19/04 10:42 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

sure - look at the status of healthcare, education, and other public services in america. in my opinion, when you compare them to other western countries - they are simply dismal. again, i do not support the democrats - i don't think there are any major differences between either of the two parties in the US. both believe that health-care should be market commodity. neither support property tax reform that would equalize the amount of federal and state money that high-school students receive. both support NAFTA, FTAA, WTO, IMF, and World Bank policies that, I believe, are direct causes for the increasing injustice throughout the world. The puppet on the right, or the puppet on the "left" - either one supports policies that increase the inequality of our world - neither support sustainable environmental, agricultural, economic, or military policies - and both represent the top 1% of america. :shrug:


--------------------




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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Krishna]
    #3386531 - 11/19/04 10:59 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Ah i see, now that im not getting a dns error on that page, i admit i misinterpreted your viewpoint and i agree with most of what you are saying. Although I think maintaining a sustainable environmental, agricultural, and economic policy is extremely difficult in the "real world". I agree that both republicans and democrats have it wrong but even the moderate people will have a difficult time battling against a society that makes it so difficult to achieve these goals...but that is just the nature of the beast i suppose.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Registered: 05/08/03
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Catalysis]
    #3386553 - 11/19/04 11:06 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Although I think maintaining a sustainable environmental, agricultural, and economic policy is extremely difficult in the "real world




I couldn't agree with you more - it is probably the most difficult thing to strive for, especially with nearly every government working in a completely different vein. But, not only is it the most difficult thing to strive for - it's also the most important (in my opinion). After all, if we don't create a sustainable future... well, then there simply won't be a future!

(sorry if i came across a bit snappish, btw. some problems in my life have me a bit "on edge" right now :rasta: )


--------------------




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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: You're welcome, Mr. Red. [Re: Krishna]
    #3386592 - 11/19/04 11:17 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

(sorry if i came across a bit snappish, btw. some problems in my life have me a bit "on edge" right now )





lol, same with me. I havent been in the greatest mood lately. Anyways, what you are talking about bothers me all the time because I and others have such great ideas about how the education system can be reformed and how social security can be reformed while not screwing people over, yet continuing to secure people's futures, etc...but often the reform is so drastic that neither democrat nor republican would be willing to touch it with a 10 foot pole.


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