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Offlinedeathcapcubensis
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Good safe hunting tip...DONT
    #3379297 - 11/18/04 02:06 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

dont avoid galerinas.....or other look alikes pick em, study em. If you pick mushrooms, especially if you are a beginner(I am), pic ones you find growing commonly in the same habitat. Seperate them(obviously), from your good haul, and when you get to a safe place, like home, for example. Study them, spore print them dry them out and keep them for a comparison, to the good ones...its better to get to know the other species, than to ignore them.... I tell you what theres soem shit that Ive seen grow that looks just like cyans with minor differences, its scary. Do yourself a favor...

Another safety tip that I think Im going to start utilizing is to cut the cap off every mushroom that you pick and lay it face down next to its stem air drying, and then make sure all the spore prints match up. Im paranoid, but man you can never be too safe....read stamets' exerpt in his book "Psilocybes of the world", and you'll see that eating the wrong mushroom can result in something you could only fathom in a gore film. YOu dont just go to sleep forever...right away, amatoxins cause your brain to haemorrhage, your kidneys and liver fail, you shit blood and mucus, etcetra, etcetra.....I hear its ten times deadlier than cianide. Yup, be careful!


Edited by deathcapcubensis (11/18/04 04:07 PM)


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3379435 - 11/18/04 02:44 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

for realzz man good thread


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3379654 - 11/18/04 03:30 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

hehe.

Yep...true.


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Offlinevc77
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: angryshroom]
    #3379698 - 11/18/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

When picking cyans, I usually feel no need to seperate and spore print each one when I get home.

In front of my eyes, a cyan is a cyan, a galerina is a galerina, and each have very distinct attributes which are unmistakeable.

Although for a beggining picker, it would be smart to take such precaution.


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Offlinedeathcapcubensis
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: vc77]
    #3379851 - 11/18/04 04:18 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

imagine there being to glasses. One being filled with deadly poison, the other being filled with....oh I dont know....a tall frosty beer. The only difference between the poison and the beer is a slight difference in the shade of the liquid, and the froth having a slightly different character. Now you must choose to drink one of them. Heh...they boht taste like beer. This is a metaphor for how I feel picking mushrooms.....you always know wich one is wich but its just creepy and eats away at the back of my mind sometimes. Imagine the anxiety while you are tripping! I went through the first time I ate em..I knew they where real, but I was trippin...it wasnt too bad I talked myself out of it... So taking these precautions may prevent some bad thoughts when on mushrooms.......for soem reason theres always a what if..in the back of my head, but mind you I just started, yet Ive seen soem SCARY shit. Like a galerina hiding under the cap of a cyan mimicking its wavy cap...that gave me the chillzzzzz.


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InvisibleStonerguy
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3380318 - 11/18/04 05:57 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

deathcapcubensis said:
imagine there being to glasses. One being filled with deadly poison, the other being filled with....oh I dont know....a tall frosty beer.



Actually alchohal toxin  :smile:,ever heard of alchohol poisoning? but i get your point.  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:GJ with thread 1 shroom for you  :mushroom2:


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Offlinevc77
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3380452 - 11/18/04 06:38 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

deathcapcubensis said:
imagine there being to glasses. One being filled with deadly poison, the other being filled with....oh I dont know....a tall frosty beer. The only difference between the poison and the beer is a slight difference in the shade of the liquid, and the froth having a slightly different character. Now you must choose to drink one of them. Heh...they boht taste like beer. This is a metaphor for how I feel picking mushrooms.....you always know wich one is wich but its just creepy and eats away at the back of my mind sometimes. Imagine the anxiety while you are tripping! I went through the first time I ate em..I knew they where real, but I was trippin...it wasnt too bad I talked myself out of it... So taking these precautions may prevent some bad thoughts when on mushrooms.......for soem reason theres always a what if..in the back of my head, but mind you I just started, yet Ive seen soem SCARY shit. Like a galerina hiding under the cap of a cyan mimicking its wavy cap...that gave me the chillzzzzz.




Shh, that statement was irrelevant.

Cyanescens and galerinas have MANY features visible to the human eye which seperate them, not just "a slight difference in the shade of color".

Once again, in front of my eyes, a cyan is a cyan, and a galerina is a galerina. I could tell them apart within seconds, and trust my decision enough to ingest them.

Here, have a peice of my mind:

------ Galerina autumnalis (Almost identical to Galerina marginata) - Psilocybe cyanescens
Cap:
Galerina: convex to plano-convex; surface smooth, viscid, yellowish-brown to orange-brown; margin translucent striate; flesh very thin.

Cyanescens: convex, becoming nearly plane with a low umbo; margin striate, often wavy, sometimes upturned in age; surface smooth, sticky when moist, hygrophanous, brown, fading to yellow-brown or buff; flesh thin, brittle in age, bruising blue.

Gills:
Galerina: Gills adnexed to short-decurrent, close to sub-distant, with two tiers of lamellulae; pale yellowish when young, becoming yellowish-orange to concolorous with the pileus to pale brown in age.

Cyanescens: Gills adnate to seceding, close when young, subdistant in age, pale cinnamon brown, becoming dark grey-brown, edges lighter than the faces, mottled from spores at maturity.

Stem/stipe:
Galerina: smooth and white to buff above the annulus, dull gray-brown and fibrillose below, mostly equal, with a prominent annulus forming a white to rusty spore coated apical ring that is sometimes missing in age.

Cyanescens: equal to sometimes enlarged at the base, the latter with conspicuous thickened mycelium (rhizomorphs); surface white, smooth to silky,bruising blue; veil fibrillose, forming a superior, evanescent hairy, annular zone.

-----------------

Unless you are trying to scare people away from picking cyanescens so you can have them all to yourself (good luck), then please do not tell them that Galerinas are completely indentical except for one, small, hardly visible factor. Infact, they are fairly easy to tell apart.

I understand you in saying to never consume an unidentified mushroom, but after a while, one can become very familiar with a certain mushroom.

The deadly galerinas DO in fact resemble cyanescens, but not so much where you cannot seperate them with the naked eye, and have to take extremes such as seperating every single fuckin mushroom, taking 400 spore prints after each haul, and stressin' balls over whats what and whats not. It IS visibly obvious, and with enough provided imformation (which the INTERNET has an abundance of, not to mention almost any decent field guide), it should be easy to make a correct identification.

Thank you for the warning, but do not slander things to the point of metaphorically telling people that they cannot determine one from another.

Happy hunting.

Oh yeah, what the hell were you doing eating "cyans" if you werent sure they were cyans. Am I supposed to take imformation from a person who makes actions such as that?


--------------------
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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: vc77]
    #3380476 - 11/18/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

I agree with VC77
I can spot a cyan from 10 feet away


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3380530 - 11/18/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

i think he was mainly talking to the beginners. If you are just starting out that is good advice.


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OfflineIce House Shaman
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3380606 - 11/18/04 07:12 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Doooood,
VC77 is absolutely correct. For a newb, many of the points U bring up may very well be relevant. Many of us on the HUNTING FORUM pick many thousands of actives over the course of a season. It takes me at the very most a second to determine active or not active. I feel Cyans are the easiest of the PNW actives to positively ID. Cyans have consistent distinguishing traits that gallerina do not have. Comfort, confidence, and skill in your hobby will come with experience. I do agree with you on this point. Too know who your enemies are you must become intimately knowledgeable with who your friends are. :shocked:


--------------------
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InvisiblePeterthinks
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: sui]
    #3380640 - 11/18/04 07:16 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

I was thinking of using a sheet of glass and a scanner to make really good close ups of mushroom cross sections and spore prints on half black half white paper..
scan the cap underside, the gills cross section stem,length section and cross section of stem.
I don't have anything fresh to try it on though so I can't show you what I mean.


--------------------
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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: Stonerguy]
    #3381608 - 11/18/04 10:33 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Stonerguy said:
Actually alchohal toxin  :smile:,ever heard of alchohol poisoning?




Alcohol* is a poison as well. :wink:


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OfflineSweetLeaf
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: Gumby]
    #3381815 - 11/18/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Really they aren't that difficult to differentiate, if your new to the game, just post some pics and a brief id.

Saying the amatoxins are 10x deadlier then cyanide is a gross overstatement. Potassium and sodium cyanide are some of the fastest acting fatal toxins in the world. Not to mention one of the most deadly.

Does anyone have any information on amatoxin dosages? Or how much is present in a Am. Phalloids specimen, or more appropriate a G. Autamalis?


--------------------
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Offlinedeathcapcubensis
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: vc77]
    #3382346 - 11/19/04 01:46 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

vc77 said:
Quote:

deathcapcubensis said:
imagine there being to glasses. One being filled with deadly poison, the other being filled with....oh I dont know....a tall frosty beer. The only difference between the poison and the beer is a slight difference in the shade of the liquid, and the froth having a slightly different character. Now you must choose to drink one of them. Heh...they boht taste like beer. This is a metaphor for how I feel picking mushrooms.....you always know wich one is wich but its just creepy and eats away at the back of my mind sometimes. Imagine the anxiety while you are tripping! I went through the first time I ate em..I knew they where real, but I was trippin...it wasnt too bad I talked myself out of it... So taking these precautions may prevent some bad thoughts when on mushrooms.......for soem reason theres always a what if..in the back of my head, but mind you I just started, yet Ive seen soem SCARY shit. Like a galerina hiding under the cap of a cyan mimicking its wavy cap...that gave me the chillzzzzz.




Shh, that statement was irrelevant.

Cyanescens and galerinas have MANY features visible to the human eye which seperate them, not just "a slight difference in the shade of color".

Once again, in front of my eyes, a cyan is a cyan, and a galerina is a galerina. I could tell them apart within seconds, and trust my decision enough to ingest them.

Here, have a peice of my mind:

------ Galerina autumnalis (Almost identical to Galerina marginata) - Psilocybe cyanescens
Cap:
Galerina: convex to plano-convex; surface smooth, viscid, yellowish-brown to orange-brown; margin translucent striate; flesh very thin.

Cyanescens: convex, becoming nearly plane with a low umbo; margin striate, often wavy, sometimes upturned in age; surface smooth, sticky when moist, hygrophanous, brown, fading to yellow-brown or buff; flesh thin, brittle in age, bruising blue.

Gills:
Galerina: Gills adnexed to short-decurrent, close to sub-distant, with two tiers of lamellulae; pale yellowish when young, becoming yellowish-orange to concolorous with the pileus to pale brown in age.

Cyanescens: Gills adnate to seceding, close when young, subdistant in age, pale cinnamon brown, becoming dark grey-brown, edges lighter than the faces, mottled from spores at maturity.

Stem/stipe:
Galerina: smooth and white to buff above the annulus, dull gray-brown and fibrillose below, mostly equal, with a prominent annulus forming a white to rusty spore coated apical ring that is sometimes missing in age.

Cyanescens: equal to sometimes enlarged at the base, the latter with conspicuous thickened mycelium (rhizomorphs); surface white, smooth to silky,bruising blue; veil fibrillose, forming a superior, evanescent hairy, annular zone.

-----------------

Unless you are trying to scare people away from picking cyanescens so you can have them all to yourself (good luck), then please do not tell them that Galerinas are completely indentical except for one, small, hardly visible factor. Infact, they are fairly easy to tell apart.

I understand you in saying to never consume an unidentified mushroom, but after a while, one can become very familiar with a certain mushroom.

The deadly galerinas DO in fact resemble cyanescens, but not so much where you cannot seperate them with the naked eye, and have to take extremes such as seperating every single fuckin mushroom, taking 400 spore prints after each haul, and stressin' balls over whats what and whats not. It IS visibly obvious, and with enough provided imformation (which the INTERNET has an abundance of, not to mention almost any decent field guide), it should be easy to make a correct identification.

Thank you for the warning, but do not slander things to the point of metaphorically telling people that they cannot determine one from another.

Happy hunting.

Oh yeah, what the hell were you doing eating "cyans" if you werent sure they were cyans. Am I supposed to take imformation from a person who makes actions such as that?





Well I didnt realize there where any mushroom gurus on this board, next time I will post "safety tips for everyone but mushroom gurus" and you wont have to read my stupid post, kapeesh? Alright now that we got that squared away we can move on to the fact that there may be other mushroooms beside galerinas that are poisonous that grow near cyans that may resemble cyans, not to mention galerina is a genus and not just one species, maybe galerina margenita or autumnalis wouldnt fool you but they make myself and others I know a little uneasy, I just thought Id post a friendly warning, its only natural some may not appreciate, I say fuck'em, this post wasnt for them anyway. Im sorry my beer metaphor offended you, sir. Peace and try and have a good evening........


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Offlinedeathcapcubensis
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: vc77]
    #3382377 - 11/19/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Here is a picture of my friend holding up two pins.....one is a galerina and one is cyan....they look pretty damn similar before bruising...




Edited by deathcapcubensis (11/19/04 01:58 AM)


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Offlinedeathcapcubensis
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3382388 - 11/19/04 01:57 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Before the bruising they looked IDENTICAL and they grew next to each other...granted i only witnessed this once but that just goes toi show that it can happen


Edited by deathcapcubensis (11/19/04 02:04 AM)


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3382405 - 11/19/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

THE ONE ON THE RIGHT!!


Did I win?!?!?!? :laugh:


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3382839 - 11/19/04 04:44 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

what would happen if somebody ate a galerina as big as that itty bitty pin? would they get sick? how about if they ate a cyan dose sized portion of galerinas? any links to galerina poisioning symptoms or stories?


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: deathcapcubensis]
    #3383101 - 11/19/04 09:15 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

anyone that picks shrooms that big probably deserves to get the galerina :tongue: :smirk: :grin:

DH


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OfflinebusyMonster
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Re: Good safe hunting tip...DONT [Re: spores]
    #3383518 - 11/19/04 11:45 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

15 to 20 Galerina caps can kill a healthy adult.
http://www.uic.edu/com/er/toxikon/mushroo.htm

i'm sure even 1 could make you pretty sick though. both points of view expressed on this thread are completely valid. i think it is smart to be a bit paranoid and take a lot of spore prints during your first season of collecting a lot of cyans. at the same time, it is comforting when you realize how different cyans and galerinas really are to an experienced eye. i would encourage anyone who thinks they've found a galerina (or any other toxic mushroom) that looks a lot like a cyan to post a good picture of it on this thread (that picture of pins was way too fuzzy to be of any use). it is definitely important to know your enemies.


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