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John
ssdp.org

Registered: 08/08/03
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Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
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want a shotty help me choose
#3376888 - 11/17/04 10:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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so i'm looking to buy a shotgun, namely for security reasons. i know i want a 12g but past that i have no clue as i don't know about guns. ideally i want something thats small, (most shotguns i've looked at were ginormous and i'd rather not mess with cutting them down) reliable, fast and can hold at least like 5 shells. the price range i was hoping for was $250 or less but might go higher for a nice piece of work. i know that's a lot to ask for with such a low price but figured i'd ask. also any specfic brand(s) that stand above the rest?
-------------------- There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
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Randolph_Carter
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: John]
#3376904 - 11/17/04 10:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've had friends who were in serious need of security who relied on Mossbergs.
-------------------- "..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson Nuke baby seals for Jesus! (This has been a +1 production.)
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East


Registered: 05/21/04
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: John]
#3377515 - 11/18/04 01:55 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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heres what ya want man. this is what im saving for. im using it for bear protection (its a good grizzley protector if that says anythign for power ) while hiking. hiking would also be a good indicator of size and weight. i knwo its a little more than you wanted but its a fucking nice gun! its in CAN$. you can undo the back shoulder dealy as well and jsut have the pistol grip. but its not as nice shooting. i dunno if they ship to teh states but norinco has some pretty cheap guns. doubt they what your looking for but the price is good. edit-a link helps eh. http://www.armrus.com/info/e_armDetail.php?mod_ID=12 crap last time i looked they had a sale and it was like 500 somthing. anyway the states always has cheapers guns than canada, so im sure you can find one there for a decent price. on second thought i dont knwo why you woudl want a shotgun for self defense. close range they would suck...get a hand gun for that, shot gun for people at a distance.
-------------------- The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
Edited by kadakuda (11/18/04 01:59 AM)
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YidakiMan
Stranger

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 2,023
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: kadakuda]
#3377920 - 11/18/04 05:55 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Get a womans' 20 ga. It's likely the shortest LEGAL shotgun out there. You might want to add a buttpad so you don't get the receiver in your face.
A 20 ga. and a 12 ga can throw the same amount of lead, the 12 ga just has more powder behind it. You don't really need all that much power inside a house. You really want to minimize the amount of ordinance passing through walls and such.
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John
ssdp.org

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: YidakiMan]
#3378315 - 11/18/04 08:04 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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that's a nice gun kada, that's in canada dollars right so it come out to like 56 cents probably seriously though i'd rather cut one down than spend that much on a gun.
Quote:
close range they would suck... .get a hand gun for that
how? if they're really long yeah it'd be hard to manuever but you're gonna take out anything in the direction of that barrel indoors. plus i'm not old enough to buy a handgun here and there's more shit you have to do to get one. i can get a rifle (even ak47's ect.) here without any papers and it dosn't have to be registered.
Quote:
You don't really need all that much power inside a house. You really want to minimize the amount of ordinance passing through walls and such.
i kinda need the power in case vests are involved which isn't uncommon. i don't have family or kids. would a 20ga blast through a vest at close range 15 feet or less? or at least throw a motherfucker out the door and knock his ass out? the more i look at how expensive shorter guns are the more i consider cutting a cheap one.
-------------------- There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
Edited by John (11/18/04 08:09 AM)
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atomic1
enthusiast


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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: kadakuda]
#3378590 - 11/18/04 09:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've got a Mossberg 500A. Its got an 18.5" barrel with a pistol grip and holds 5 shells. I got it for $150 bucks at a pawn shop i used to work at so i always got the cream of the crop that came through there. I think it books for around $250 and Mossbergs are high quality guns.
Quote:
kadakuda said: on second thought i dont knwo why you woudl want a shotgun for self defense. close range they would suck...get a hand gun for that, shot gun for people at a distance.
BTW, a shotgun close range is fucking lethal. The further away from your target when you shoot the more the shot spreads out. Unless you have a long barrel full choke shotgun then it would be useless at any distance over 20 yards. That is the kind of shotgun people squirrel hunt with. So a sawed off shorty would be ideal for close range personal protection in a house. I'm not trying to be a dick and contradict you, just my 2 cents.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: John]
#3378799 - 11/18/04 09:58 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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glad to hear you've decided to get a shotgun. if you're going to own one gun, it should be a shotgun. most versatile gun out there. you can shoot clays, hunt just about anything, and they are unbeatable for home defense. there should be one in every home. you are already on the right track. for home defense, yes, you do want a shotgun. some people like to rely on handguns for home defense. all handguns are underpowered for self-defense situations. their virtue lies in the fact that they can be concealed. for home defense, you want a shotgun. you cannot count on a handgun to immediately stop an adrenaline-pumped, possibly psychotic, and possibly tweaked-up violent intruder. a rifle is harder to control and the bullets you fire will not stay inside your house. shotgun pellets will. nothing else a civilian can own is as effective at causing rack and ruin at short ranges than a shotgun. get a shotgun. you've got a few more options. there are 2 gauges suitable for home defense: 12 and 20. 12 is better because it is the "standard" gauge. ammo is more readily available and cheaper, and also, with reduced-recoil "tactical" loads, they can put more lead on target, but have less felt recoil, than the 20 gauge. get a 12 gauge. next, you gotta figure out whether you want a pump or a semi-auto. the virtues of the auto are that it has less recoil and their is no action to cycle. the disadvantages are that it is not as reliable, will not cycle with all loads, and is usually two to three times as expensive as a pump. i say get a pump, and get one capable of accepting 3-inch (magnum) shells. you'll probably be using 2 3/4 inch shells, but it'll make your shotgun more versetile and reliable. for barrel-length, choose an 18 to 20 inch barrel. most home defense guns come with an 18.5 inch barrel. most sporting shotguns have modified barrels that have what's called a "choke" which tightens the shot pattern downrange. that or they have a rifled bore for shooting slugs at deer. you want neither. get an 18-20 inch barrel with a "cylinder" bore. this means no choke. next is ammo. use 2 3/4 inch shells, and stay away from slugs. you want buckshot. a lot of people like to use OO (double-ought) buckshot. in a standard 2 3/4, 12 gauge shotgun shell, #1 buck is actually more effective. if you're using regular shells, get #1 buck. i'm pretty sure that the reduced-recoil loads are not made with #1 buck, but 00. that's fine. 00 also works great. (at in-house ranges, just about any size pellet, even birdshot, is devastating. if overpenetration is a big concern #4 birdshot isn't a bad choice). as far as brand and model, the staples basically are: the remington 870, the mossberg 500\590, the winchester 1300, and the ithaca 37. the remington and the mossberg are the most common and you would do well to stick with one of them. pump shotguns are pretty indestructible and as long as it wasn't abused, a used shotgun is a very good buy. you can find a decent used shotgun on the shelves of just about any gun shop. should run you around $150-$250. another thing worth checking out is that mossberg makes an economy model of the 500 through a subsidiary called "maverick arms". the maverick 88 is basically the same as a mossberg 500 but is a bit less expensive. just buying a shotgun and some ammo isn't the end of it though. you really need to practice with it. some people like to pimp out their defense shotgun with all kinds of bells and whistles. your shotgun needs a light, and a saddle for extra ammo. that's it. spend money on ammo and range fees, not gimmicks. you also need to know the law as far as when it is appropriate to use lethal force in self-defense. in most cases, you cannot just blow away anyone who enters your home uninvited (nor would i hope you would want to). the legal must read for people who keep guns for self-defense is a book called, "in the gravest extreme: the role of the firearm in personal protection", by massad ayoob. get it. summarized, what you basically need to understand is that you cannot shoot someone to defend property. you can shoot only to prevent loss of life or limb, and you had better be able to prove that you did. if you use a gun in self-defense, you will be arrested and charged pending an investigation. the author has another book about combat shotgunning. it's also a good buy. and one last thing: stay away from the "pistol grip only" shotguns you see in the movies. they are hollywood BS and for 'gunshop commandos'. they are hard as hell to control. not worth it. remember also that a firearm should not be your first line of defense. it is a last line of defense, and it is not without some serious drawbacks. a home-owner's insurance policy, good locks, and a good dog make a fine home-defense system. the shotgun is there as a last resort. some helpful links: www.thefiringline.com - is to firearms as the shroomery is to mushrooms. some very good information here. www.remington.com www.mossberg.com www.maverickarms.com if you have any questions feel free to PM me.
Edited by mushmaster (11/18/04 10:11 AM)
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Lana
Head Banana


Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: atomic1]
#3378812 - 11/18/04 10:01 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Read this thread over at www.overgrow.com
http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?t=530780
The second or third page talks about shotguns.
Lana
-------------------- Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products http://www.MycoSupply.com The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies. Visit us online or call us toll free
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Anonymous #1
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: John]
#3378952 - 11/18/04 10:34 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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a decent article coverering home security in general:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob89.html
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Anonymous #1
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: ]
#3378976 - 11/18/04 10:40 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Randolph_Carter
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: ]
#3379250 - 11/18/04 11:51 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mushmaster: YOur comment about adding a light to the gun is key.
kinda unhappy i never thought of that.
-------------------- "..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson Nuke baby seals for Jesus! (This has been a +1 production.)
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atomic1
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Interesting thread Lana. Seems like their main bitch is a grow op and guns in the same place. Some are for it and some aren't. I'm not some punk kid who's just waiting to pop a cap in someone's ass but i believe protecting one's home/self. I'd rather have legal problems than "living" problems.
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kadakuda
The Great"Green".......East


Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: atomic1]
#3379967 - 11/18/04 02:49 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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shotguns are wicked. best gun in my opinion as well. its jsut the manuevering part thats harder, but some of the shorties are pretty good. vests? you at war or somthing there john? 20 g i doubt would go through a vest, although at close range it may...i doubt it. if all you want is to blow somthing clear out of the way, 12g will be all you need. they are a great multi purpose size. as was already said, hunting, targets, protection whatever. they are great guns. and if you dont mind pawn shops i know for fact that your country has some nice cheap as guns. everytime im down there i get so tempted to fill my trunk. lucky bastards.... should also think about amo. bird shot may not penetrate. but a slug will blast a big fuckign hole right through the guy. or maybe a bean bag gun so you dont kill the dude. or a taser gun.
-------------------- The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.
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John
ssdp.org

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: Lana]
#3380383 - 11/18/04 04:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah lana that's the thread that i learned i want a shotgun, originally i wanted an assault rifle because they're so damn cool but i'll settle for praticality (and price).
thanks mushmaster for the post and the links they helped me a lot i might just break down and buy this http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Specpurp.htm (first on the page) but i'm gonna check out pawn/gun shops and maybe a gun show first. i kinda wanna get one from a gunshow as there's no paperwork at all in my state if you buy from a 'private' dealer and no paperwork makes me happy
-------------------- There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: John]
#3380560 - 11/18/04 05:02 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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careful with gunshows and pawnshops. reputable gunshops are depending on repeat customers and are usually pretty honest and fair. people who don't have a good deal of experience with used guns and can't quickly seperate the good from the bad would do well to stick with reputable gunshops. they aren't going to sell you a peice of shit. if you're buying a gun to defend your life, why take the chance?
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daimyo
Monticello

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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: John]
#3380647 - 11/18/04 05:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just so you know, a shotgun has a snowballs chance in hell of penetrating a "bulletproof" vest. You may break some bones and cause severe bruising, but that's about it. There are different levels of bulletproof vest. If you are honestly worried about that aspect, I suggest doing some research on the subject, and then finding out what level vest your opposition wears.
And on a whole different line of thought, don't worry about bulletproof vests. If you have a shotgun aim for the upper chest and let fly(or directly at the head if upclose). This virtually guarantees shot will spray the neck and face. Also, you may want to head on over to rotten.com and check out some of the pictures of what a shotgun will do to someones head. This way you will be somewhat familiar with the outrageously disgusting nature of the act if you are ever faced with it(this will allow you to better keep your cool in said situation).
And finally, as stated above, resort to using a firearm as a LAST resort. Carry a can of pepper spray and a knife at all times. One blast of pepper to the face and most people will not be able to continue their attempts to harm. Same with a good slice across the achilles from a sharp knife. The only time you need the shotgun is if your house gets rushed, or the person is a 350lb ex-SEAL. And even then it might not help if you aren't practiced enough; so go to the range or the woods and practice practice practice.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Anonymous #1
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: daimyo]
#3380710 - 11/18/04 05:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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pepper spray isn't shit. you want to bet your life on the fact that someone who may be drugged, psychotic, or at the very least very high on adrenaline is going to stop because to spray them with a little pepper?
you want to get into a knife fight to save your life?
what if the attacker is himself armed with a gun?
if you're going to have a weapon as a last line of home defense, it needs to be a firearm, and nothing's better than a shotgun.
other than that, what you said is pretty true. a shotgun will not penetrate body armor unless it is loaded with a very hot slug load, and then only at very close ranges, and then not reliably. a rifle is the only thing that will punch through body armor reliably. it will also punch through your wall, and then your neighbor's. all things considered, a shotgun is a better choice.
good points on not shooting unless you have to. if you have to kill someone, there will be a huge mess to clean up. a legal mess, an emotional mess, and yes, a very bloody mess. it's a last resort. much better if you don't have to shoot anyone.
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Super_Blunt
Candyman


Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 3,140
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: ]
#3380802 - 11/18/04 05:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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you gotta hole it down in deez streets
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: ]
#3380848 - 11/18/04 05:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was not suggesting relying on the pepper spray or the knife over the shotgun. But as you said, it should be a LAST line of defense. I was merely suggesting those items be acquired. Carrying a loaded shotgun around with you all day is cumbersome(let alone suspicious and intimidating). You don't want the people that you fear possibly getting into a gunfight with being paranoid about you while doing whatever it is that you're doing. With the pepper spray and knife you will ALWAYS have SOMETHING that is easy to use, effective, and highly concealable. And if you can gain a few second to reach for the shotgun by using one of them, all the better.
And i'll be damned if pepper spray isn't shit. IMO/E, whoever gets sprayed with it calms right the hell down. Not only are you blinded, but then you breathe it in and the snot starts flowing, you start gasping, you instictively go to shield/rub your eyes and get it in more. It is a very effective weapon in MOST cases.
But there is no need to split hairs. This is the help choose a shotty thread, so I will add my choice in now... Remington 870 Express Synthetic(7 shot) - http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsyn18.htm
Buy any Model 870 by Nov. 30th 2004 and get a $25 mail-in rebate... http://www.remington.com/promo/04_870express.htm
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Anonymous #1
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Re: want a shotty help me choose [Re: daimyo]
#3380903 - 11/18/04 06:09 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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he's talking about a gun for home defense. good choice on the extended mag. most people don't store it ready with the chamber loaded, and this is a good idea IMO. this means that in a regular 5+1 setup, you only have 5 rounds. if you have a shotgun for home defense and want to keep it loaded at all times, it's better to keep it one round or so short of max capacity. this reduces strain on the magazine spring, making it less likely to fail. that would give you only 4 rounds, whereas with an extended mag, you'd get 6. for whatever reason though, i don't really like the look of the extended mag shotguns. oh well...
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