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OfflineGazzBut
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The makeup of the insurgents
    #3372649 - 11/17/04 04:00 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

I keep hearing alot of crap spouted about how all the insurgents are extremist muslims, foreign fighters or people who were close to Saddam etc. Havent seen much proof though. Is it possible that a large portion of these fighters are simply Iraqi's who object to the manner in which the US led liberation has been carried out?


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: GazzBut]
    #3372666 - 11/17/04 04:07 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

The truth is we don't know who the insurgents are. They seem to be mostly Iraqis taking up arms against the occupation.


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: GazzBut]
    #3372690 - 11/17/04 04:15 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

they are just freedom fighting patriots fighting a fight against a huge nazi army that has taken over their county. they are all patriots fighting for their home. the news makes you think they are terrorists but they arent. even if they blow them selves up or use car bombs and stuff. these are the only weapons they have against our huge army of hate.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3372694 - 11/17/04 04:16 AM (12 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

AhronZombi said:
they are just freedom fighting patriots fighting a fight against a huge nazi army that has taken over their county. they are all patriots fighting for their home. the news makes you think they are terrorists but they arent. even if they blow them selves up or use car bombs and stuff. these are the only weapons they have against our huge army of hate.




:thumbup:


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3372929 - 11/17/04 07:51 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

sounds about the size of it


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3373008 - 11/17/04 09:07 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

:argh:


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3373021 - 11/17/04 09:13 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

What about when they are purposely targeting their own countrymen? Female aid workers?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3373082 - 11/17/04 09:50 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

They? Who is this they? Are you suggesting that all people involved in the insurgency support 100% the hostage takers actions..that is far from gaurunteed. Some have suggested that some of the hostage takers are actually just opportunitst criminals who thought they might be able to make some quick money somehow. All of the people fighting in Fallujah cannot be casually equated with all people involved in hostage taking. Although it is convenient to justify and whip up hatred of those who justly oppose the invasion of their country.


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Anonymous

Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3373095 - 11/17/04 10:01 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

they are just freedom fighting patriots fighting a fight against a huge nazi army that has taken over their county.

news flash: the third reich ended almost 60 years ago. national socialism is dead. this "nazi this, nazi that" bullshit is tiresome and insulting to those who actually lived and died under hitler's brutal regime. give it a rest.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: GazzBut]
    #3373145 - 11/17/04 10:34 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Come now Gazz, I expect more from you - 23 skidoo.

Quote:

AhronZombi said:
they are just freedom fighting patriots fighting a fight against a huge nazi army that has taken over their county. they are all patriots fighting for their home. the news makes you think they are terrorists but they arent . even if they blow them selves up or use car bombs and stuff. these are the only weapons they have against our huge army of hate.




I said that in response to his blanket statement that the insurgents are all freedom fighters battling an occupying Nazi army. Obviously not true.

I have no doubt there are some Iraqis who have taken up arms in a fight they believe is against an occupying force. I believe they misunderstand the situation and are only compounding the problem but if that's their motivation, I can't blaim them. I think they would be better served to allow events to play out and see if we lived up to our obligations before going on the offensive unnecesarily though. But to purposely target their own countrymen who disagree with them is outrageous. To purposely target civilians who are there to help is inexcusable.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3373166 - 11/17/04 10:48 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Ever seen The Matrix?

Ever heard GWB talk - 'if you are not with us, you are against us'?

Anyone who understands, and is behind GWB's actions in Iraq must see that his philosophy is exactly the same as that of his enemies.

Women and children by the thousands have been killed on GWB's say so - sure, mostly Iraqi's, but does their nationality actually make any difference?

What's the moral difference between Iraqi resistance killing a female aid worker (foreign, possibly married to an Iraqi) and the US military killing a bunch of kids, not yet into their teens, who are playing football?

Imagine an occupied country, it erupts into division and even civil war because some people support the invaders, some do not. If one is a part of the resistance and your countrymen have sold out, they become the invader's pawns, they become the enemy.

This is why the US is loosing the battle for hearts and minds because they have attempted to divide and conquer a culture. This divide and rule tactic has been used since time immemorial by colonising forces and empire builders. That's one of the main reasons why Africa and the Middle East got so fucked up in the first place. National borders set by the colonials never encircled cultural groups, they always divided them where possible. And we have lived with this legacy ever since.

In effect this means local inhabitants no longer belonged to a self defining country, cultural space or nationstate, instead ones brothers and psychological countrymen live abroad, while one is enjoined with one's enemies. Psychologically this is very difficult (for tribal peoples especially).

The tactic is, and has been, backfiring globally for some number of years, the resistance is growing and in places like Iraq it is stronger, more personal and more heartfelt by the day.

The lesson will eventually be learnt, that as with the division of Ireland, a compromise (which is the only way to peace) can only be reached around the table. The Irish situation was only resolved when the terrorists/freedom fighters/insurgents were allowed their own political party and their tormented voice given political respect.

Of course a lot of time is also needed, and the US agenda never allows for that. Quick fix by bomb is the yee-ha yahoo tactic the USAdmin uses abroad.

Compromise is a dirty word in Iraq....so peace will not come.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: ]
    #3373176 - 11/17/04 10:50 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

news flash: the third reich ended almost 60 years ago. national socialism is dead. this "nazi this, nazi that" bullshit is tiresome and insulting to those who actually lived and died under hitler's brutal regime. give it a rest.





Actually the nazi party is rising in popularity in Germany at a rate of knots right now. Facism is alive and well across the planet too.

Take a look at the world


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: CJay]
    #3373220 - 11/17/04 11:06 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

What's the moral difference between Iraqi resistance killing a female aid worker (foreign, possibly married to an Iraqi) and the US military killing a bunch of kids, not yet into their teens, who are playing football?

Exactly, which is why it's stupid to say that the US are "evil nazis" and the Iraqi insurgents are patriots.

It's silly to pick a side when both sides are using barbaric tactics. To say that it's okay to kidnap, torture, and murder american workers, and it's a war crime when the americans do it is just as ignorant as buying into the Bush administration's propaganda.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: CJay]
    #3373224 - 11/17/04 11:07 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Facism is alive and well across the planet too.

Alright, define facism then.  :smirk:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: Phluck]
    #3373287 - 11/17/04 11:27 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

fascism = silence others through name-calling and label people stupid, ignorant or from Texas when they don't agree with your way of thinking.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: Phluck]
    #3373321 - 11/17/04 11:37 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

It's silly to pick a side when both sides are using barbaric tactics. To say that it's okay to kidnap, torture, and murder american workers, and it's a war crime when the americans do it is just as ignorant as buying into the Bush administration's propaganda. 


 


This is exactly what I am saying! You win todays star prize.

Haven't you worked it out - I'm not on anyones side!

What interests me is that everyone gets on their high horse about the aid workers, (shock horror - evil insurgents) yet most support the US brutality - doh!

I personally expect brutality all around and see no such thing as a crime in war, but the US likes to present itself as an endearing nation that is above so called "war crimes". Well, the US has to live with that righteous stance I guess since it is their own self made posture.

I just find it all funny - maybe you should get a sense of humour too.

:sun:


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: CJay]
    #3373349 - 11/17/04 11:45 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Definition:

The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that

-exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual,

-uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition,

-engages in severe economic and social regimentation, and

- espouses nationalism and sometimes racism or ethnic nationalism.

In an article in the 1932 Enciclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, fascism is described as a system in which:

"The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad.... For the Fascist, everything is within the State and... neither individuals or groups are outside the State.... For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative."

sounds rather like ole GWB's philosophy at home and away

....And a lot of other nations fit that description too, (many even further than GWB's proto-state)....across the globe.

Like I said fascism is alive and well across the globe.


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Anonymous

Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: CJay]
    #3373408 - 11/17/04 11:59 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

-exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual

america: 0
muslic theocrats: 0

-uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition,

america: 0
muslim theocrats: 1

-engages in severe economic and social regimentation, and

america: 0
muslim theocrats: 2

- espouses nationalism and sometimes racism or ethnic nationalism.

america: 0
muslim theocrats: 2

"The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad.... "

america: 0
muslim theocrats: 3


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3373461 - 11/17/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Come now Gazz, I expect more from you - 23 skidoo.




Lol! Well speak a little more precisely and I wont have to correct you will I!!  :smirk:


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: The makeup of the insurgents [Re: ]
    #3373509 - 11/17/04 12:24 PM (12 years, 19 days ago)

The poser libertarian speaks!


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