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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE?
    #3371938 - 11/17/04 12:50 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

my definition of progressive is to move forward, favoring reform or progress.

bush agenda:

partial privatization of social security
health care reform
tax reform
energy reform
tort reform


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3372087 - 11/17/04 01:19 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

We should examine Mr. Bush's record, not his promises. By that measure, with an ever expanding government and an increase in social spending, he is a progressive in the proudest traditions of the democratic party. He's somewhat like LBJ but with a different party label.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: Autonomous]
    #3372189 - 11/17/04 01:49 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Autonomous said:
We should examine Mr. Bush's record, not his promises. By that measure, with an ever expanding government and an increase in social spending, he is a progressive in the proudest traditions of the democratic party. He's somewhat like LBJ but with a different party label.



Good analysis of the situation.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3372931 - 11/17/04 07:52 AM (12 years, 19 days ago)

Progressive for his daddies interests, but not for the average Joe


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Offlineoggleman
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: CJay]
    #3377278 - 11/18/04 02:19 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Well there are a few different definitions of the word progressive, but simply saying he wants "reform" of various things doesn't make him a progressive. Way to oversimplify, good one.

Progressives want more government health care funding, more environmental protection, progressive taxation, less military spending, legal gay marriage, abolition of the death penalty, gun control laws, secular government, campaign finance reform, just to name a few. Bush doesn't want any of these.

Furthermore, "tort" reform is simply another way to protect the elite (and by elite I mean corporate elite, not the liberal elite) by restricting what he calls "frivolous" law suits which are actually victims of corporate crimes prosecuting corporations.

Bush DOES NOT support a bigger government in a way that some may call a "tax and spend nanny state", he supports a bigger military, more power, free trade and less restrictions on corporations, its not the same thing. He just wants a bigger government in that he wants to take over Iraq and Iran and whoever else and turn them into American colonies for American corporations buy all the land and employ the population as sweat shop workers.

Privatizing all that shit anyways is not a step forward, but a step backwards, bust out the history books, bitches.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: oggleman]
    #3377288 - 11/18/04 02:21 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

oggleman said:
Furthermore, "tort" reform is simply another way to protect the elite (and by elite I mean corporate elite, not the liberal elite) by restricting what he calls "frivolous" law suits which are actually victims of corporate crimes prosecuting corporations.




What about corporations that threaten individuals with frivilous lawsuits that they can't afford to defend themselves against?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineoggleman
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: z@z.com]
    #3377363 - 11/18/04 02:47 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

I'm sorry I digressed a little, but that still doesn't make bush a progressive. Well the only defense I have here for my position is this:

Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.

When all is said and done, justice is better served if the case is heard; the prosecuter makes his case, the defendant makes his case, juries deliberate, judges judge. In the case of corporations victimizing individuals with frivolous law suits, I have to leave it to the judges to seek the truth and pass judgement in a fair and constitutional manner, this is the way our founding fathers intended it. Although our court system may not be the model of infallability, at least letting a case be heard is better than just dismissing it as "frivilous" and setting up laws to make our justice system more inaccessible.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3380939 - 11/18/04 08:18 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

i could not think of any progressive ideas gore or kerry had, but clinton reminded me on the news today that he did NAFTA and welfare reform. clinton = progressive.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: CJay]
    #3380974 - 11/18/04 08:24 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

CJay said:
Progressive for his daddies interests, but not for the average Joe




progressively moving the world down the crapper..... :sad:


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381106 - 11/18/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Haha, i love the partisan bootlicking here.

Yes, bush is progressive because the conservative party has traditionally been, well, conservative. The liberals are known for being progressive or activist depending on whose ass you are kissing. The fact of the matter is that generally liberals try to change things while conservatives dont try to change things as much and argue that its not so bad how it is now. The bottom line is it all comes down to the fact that everyone is selfish. The self-made republicans want to keep thier money and not share while the liberals want thier people to have the wealth. I dont even give a shit anymore, both republicans and democrats can blow me.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3381214 - 11/18/04 09:09 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

yes call me selfish, because i do not like to be stolen from.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3381227 - 11/18/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
I dont even give a shit anymore, both republicans and democrats can blow me.




--------------------




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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: Krishna]
    #3381348 - 11/18/04 09:38 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

where is the love?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381749 - 11/18/04 10:56 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

oh i've got plenty of love, for every living being on this planet - even good ol' Georgie... i've just got no respect for politicians who can easily afford not to care about the (easily avoidable) sufferings of humanity...


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Is Bush a PROGRESSIVE? [Re: Krishna]
    #3381764 - 11/18/04 10:58 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

i feel bad for the rest of humanity. but just helping my friends and family is overwhelming.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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