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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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fail for success
#3369214 - 11/16/04 02:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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presides over the largest security failure in US history as the national security adviser and gets promoted to secretary of state.
you gotta love the new american dream:
even utter failure can't stop a person with the right connections from succeeding
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
#3369220 - 11/16/04 02:23 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
even utter failure can't stop a person with the right connections from succeeding
sounds like a Union.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Anonymous
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
#3369392 - 11/16/04 03:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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you some kind of racist?
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
#3369476 - 11/16/04 03:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
you gotta love the new american dream:
even utter failure can't stop a person with the right connections from succeeding
funny, I live in one of the most conservative cities in America and that's exactly how it is here.
I guess sometimes moral principles and social theories don't pan out in real life. It seems to me that capitalism suffers from the same problems communism suffers from.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: fail for success [Re: Innvertigo]
#3369692 - 11/16/04 04:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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goddamn teamsters!
mushmaster: clearly.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
#3370060 - 11/16/04 05:19 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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She is but an adviser. She cannot pass legislation that may have aided in thwarting the attacks. Even if she had done everything possible, it might still have not prevented them.
For this she is a failure?
-------------------- I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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I think she's a failure because Bush and her sat there and looked at that report saying "Al Qaeda plans to strike U.S." and "planes might be used as missiles". She fucked up and the CIA fucked up.
Edited by RandalFlagg (11/16/04 06:36 PM)
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PopeHypocriteIII
Stranger
Registered: 03/31/04
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
#3370424 - 11/16/04 06:16 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The promotion is designed, I think, to ensure ideological unity in Bush's cabinet rather than the recognition of merit. Colin Powell (although he could be as bloody-minded as any of them) preferred multilateralism in foreign affairs, which caused a degree of friction.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said: I think she's a failure because Bush and her sat there and looked at that report saying "Al Qaeda plands to strike U.S." and "planes might be used as missiles". She fucked up and the CIA fucked up.
Common American people knew Al Qaeda wanted to attack us since the first attempt on the WTC. That was 12 years ago. Planes might be used as missiles? So might missiles, or suitcase nukes or poison in the water supply or.... I could go on and on and on. They get thousands of reports all the time. They needed to get real meaningful intelligence and they weren't getting it. This I put at Clinton's feet because any fool could've seen after the first attack that the cold war was over and that the enemy wore robes. Why were these organizations not infiltrated and why weren't Arabic translators actively recruited? This was the huge intelligence failure and it was organizational and it stemmed from Clinton's masturbatory habits.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
#3370508 - 11/16/04 06:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Common American people knew Al Qaeda wanted to attack us since the first attempt on the WTC. That was 12 years ago. Really? Because, at the time, I thought they just said Ramsey Yousef planned it by himself... why weren't Arabic translators actively recruited? Please don't kid me... The CIA has had Arabic translators for a long time.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
Edited by trendal (11/16/04 06:30 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: fail for success [Re: trendal]
#3370536 - 11/16/04 06:35 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The CIA does not have anywhere near enough Arabic translators even now. They don't grow on trees. They have to be manufactured. And you have to be kidding about Yousef.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
#3370566 - 11/16/04 06:40 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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They don't grow on trees. They have to be manufactured.
No one ever explained the birds and the bees to you, eh?
And you have to be kidding about Yousef.
I most certainly am not. As far as I can tell, the FIRST public mention of the name "Al Qaeda" in the US came in 1998 when a grand jury indicted Bin Laden on charges of "conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the United States." (link)
Oh, but I forgot. You must have some SWEET connections in the government there, to know about Al Qaeda before they were even talking about it in the media
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
#3370574 - 11/16/04 06:41 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The first WTC bombing was not an Al Qaeda operation.
Clinton fucked up though. During his tenure Al Qaeda bombed the African embassies and the USS Cole. He should have really gone after Al Qaeda more than he did. And, not going after Al Qaeda seriously set the stage for what Bush inherited when he came into office.
But for God's sake....the report said, "planes might be used as missiles". Like I said, I think the CIA fucked up and I think the Bush administration fucked up some too.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Trendal, my friend, read your own link. Don't be a jerk off about the translators. They have to be recruited and trained. This is a manufacturing process.
And "planes might be used as missiles" is actionable intelligence????? Come on, you know damn well how much screaming would have been going on if we had stepped up airport security to it's current level without these attacks having occurred. A whole industry is almost bankrupt as it is.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
#3370692 - 11/16/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Trendal, my friend, read your own link.
I have. Several times. Which is why I used it
Just because Al Qaeda was formed in 1989 does not mean your average American knew anything about it, let alone that it existed. As I said, the first public mention of Al Qaeda I could find was the 1998 indictment.
So, again: how did you know about Al Qaeda in 1993? The media certainly wasn't talking about them at the time...
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
#3370705 - 11/16/04 07:01 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Common American people knew Al Qaeda wanted to attack us since the first attempt on the WTC.
Just to refresh your memory on what we're talking about
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: fail for success [Re: trendal]
#3370766 - 11/16/04 07:12 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said: So, again: how did you know about Al Qaeda in 1993? The media certainly wasn't talking about them at the time...
I don't think you're correct about this, although they certainly hadn't reached their current notoriety. I am very well informed and have been for quite some time, so perhaps considering myself representative of "common American" is in error in the strict technical sense that there are a lot of me but in the sense that I am not a government insider and had heard of them then I am "common". Just because the sources cited in your link date from 1998 does not mean that those are the first press mentions of AlQ.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
#3370784 - 11/16/04 07:15 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just because the sources cited in your link date from 1998 does not mean that those are the first press mentions of AlQ.
No, but I've also never been able to find any media mention of Al Qaeda before '98, despite searching for it.
So why did you mention the first WTC bombing as if that was where everyone learned about Al Qaeda?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
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Re: fail for success [Re: trendal]
#3370837 - 11/16/04 07:27 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The promotion is designed, I think, to ensure ideological unity in Bush's cabinet rather than the recognition of merit.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: fail for success [Re: phi1618]
#3371342 - 11/16/04 08:51 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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she was going to bounce if she didn't get a promotion.
she's said as much publically.
I think it was promote her into the spot or she bounces too, in which case Bush is left with barely a semblance of his original cabinent...which could be good or bad... depending how you look at it.
but with so many figureheads jumping ship...losing another one with as much visibility as condi could have been costly.
you can blame clinton and bush sr as much as you want, but the fact of the matter is that she was privvy to information warning of a growing threat hell-bent on maximum carnage and didn't do a thing.
what should I expect...nobody's been reprimanded...they just get promoted, but maybe that's just how skewed and backasswards things have become in the beaurocratic states of america.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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