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Invisibleafoaf
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fail for success
    #3369214 - 11/16/04 04:20 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

presides over the largest security failure in US history as
the national security adviser and gets promoted to secretary
of state.

you gotta love the new american dream:

even utter failure can't stop a person with the right connections from succeeding


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
    #3369220 - 11/16/04 04:23 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

even utter failure can't stop a person with the right connections from succeeding




sounds like a Union.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
    #3369392 - 11/16/04 05:07 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

you some kind of racist?


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
    #3369476 - 11/16/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

you gotta love the new american dream:

even utter failure can't stop a person with the right connections from succeeding





funny, I live in one of the most conservative cities in America and that's exactly how it is here.

I guess sometimes moral principles and social theories don't pan out in real life. It seems to me that capitalism suffers from the same problems communism suffers from.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: fail for success [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3369692 - 11/16/04 06:10 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

goddamn teamsters!

mushmaster: clearly.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
    #3370060 - 11/16/04 07:19 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

She is but an adviser. She cannot pass legislation that may have aided in thwarting the attacks. Even if she had done everything possible, it might still have not prevented them.

For this she is a failure?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: fail for success [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3370204 - 11/16/04 07:43 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

I think she's a failure because Bush and her sat there and looked
at that report saying "Al Qaeda plans to strike U.S." and "planes
might be used as missiles". She fucked up and the CIA fucked up.


Edited by RandalFlagg (11/16/04 08:36 PM)


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OfflinePopeHypocriteIII
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Re: fail for success [Re: afoaf]
    #3370424 - 11/16/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

The promotion is designed, I think, to ensure ideological unity in Bush's cabinet rather than the recognition of merit. Colin Powell (although he could be as bloody-minded as any of them) preferred multilateralism in foreign affairs, which caused a degree of friction.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: fail for success [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3370488 - 11/16/04 08:26 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I think she's a failure because Bush and her sat there and looked
at that report saying "Al Qaeda plands to strike U.S." and "planes
might be used as missiles". She fucked up and the CIA fucked up.




Common American people knew Al Qaeda wanted to attack us since the first attempt on the WTC. That was 12 years ago. Planes might be used as missiles? So might missiles, or suitcase nukes or poison in the water supply or.... I could go on and on and on. They get thousands of reports all the time. They needed to get real meaningful intelligence and they weren't getting it. This I put at Clinton's feet because any fool could've seen after the first attack that the cold war was over and that the enemy wore robes. Why were these organizations not infiltrated and why weren't Arabic translators actively recruited? This was the huge intelligence failure and it was organizational and it stemmed from Clinton's masturbatory habits.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3370508 - 11/16/04 08:29 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Common American people knew Al Qaeda wanted to attack us since the first attempt on the WTC. That was 12 years ago.

Really? Because, at the time, I thought they just said Ramsey Yousef planned it by himself...

why weren't Arabic translators actively recruited?

Please don't kid me...

The CIA has had Arabic translators for a long time.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Edited by trendal (11/16/04 08:30 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: fail for success [Re: trendal]
    #3370536 - 11/16/04 08:35 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

The CIA does not have anywhere near enough Arabic translators even now. They don't grow on trees. They have to be manufactured. And you have to be kidding about Yousef.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3370566 - 11/16/04 08:40 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

They don't grow on trees. They have to be manufactured.

No one ever explained the birds and the bees to you, eh?

And you have to be kidding about Yousef.

I most certainly am not. As far as I can tell, the FIRST public mention of the name "Al Qaeda" in the US came in 1998 when a grand jury indicted Bin Laden on charges of "conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the United States." (link)

Oh, but I forgot. You must have some SWEET connections in the government there, to know about Al Qaeda before they were even talking about it in the media :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3370574 - 11/16/04 08:41 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

The first WTC bombing was not an Al Qaeda operation.

Clinton fucked up though. During his tenure Al Qaeda bombed the
African embassies and the USS Cole. He should have really
gone after Al Qaeda more than he did. And, not going after Al Qaeda
seriously set the stage for what Bush inherited when he came into
office.

But for God's sake....the report said, "planes might be used as
missiles". Like I said, I think the CIA fucked up and I think
the Bush administration fucked up some too.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: fail for success [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3370637 - 11/16/04 08:52 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Trendal, my friend, read your own link. Don't be a jerk off about the translators. They have to be recruited and trained. This is a manufacturing process.

And "planes might be used as missiles" is actionable intelligence????? Come on, you know damn well how much screaming would have been going on if we had stepped up airport security to it's current level without these attacks having occurred. A whole industry is almost bankrupt as it is.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3370692 - 11/16/04 09:00 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Trendal, my friend, read your own link.

I have. Several times. Which is why I used it :wink:

Just because Al Qaeda was formed in 1989 does not mean your average American knew anything about it, let alone that it existed. As I said, the first public mention of Al Qaeda I could find was the 1998 indictment.

So, again: how did you know about Al Qaeda in 1993? The media certainly wasn't talking about them at the time...


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3370705 - 11/16/04 09:01 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Common American people knew Al Qaeda wanted to attack us since the first attempt on the WTC.




Just to refresh your memory on what we're talking about :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: fail for success [Re: trendal]
    #3370766 - 11/16/04 09:12 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
So, again: how did you know about Al Qaeda in 1993? The media certainly wasn't talking about them at the time...




I don't think you're correct about this, although they certainly hadn't reached their current notoriety. I am very well informed and have been for quite some time, so perhaps considering myself representative of "common American" is in error in the strict technical sense that there are a lot of me but in the sense that I am not a government insider and had heard of them then I am "common". Just because the sources cited in your link date from 1998 does not mean that those are the first press mentions of AlQ.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: fail for success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3370784 - 11/16/04 09:15 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Just because the sources cited in your link date from 1998 does not mean that those are the first press mentions of AlQ.

No, but I've also never been able to find any media mention of Al Qaeda before '98, despite searching for it.

So why did you mention the first WTC bombing as if that was where everyone learned about Al Qaeda?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinephi1618
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Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: fail for success [Re: trendal]
    #3370837 - 11/16/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

The promotion is designed, I think, to ensure ideological unity in Bush's cabinet rather than the recognition of merit.




:thumbup:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: fail for success [Re: phi1618]
    #3371342 - 11/16/04 10:51 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

she was going to bounce if she didn't get a promotion.

she's said as much publically.

I think it was promote her into the spot or she bounces
too, in which case Bush is left with barely a semblance
of his original cabinent...which could be good or bad...
depending how you look at it.

but with so many figureheads jumping ship...losing another
one with as much visibility as condi could have been costly.

you can blame clinton and bush sr as much as you want,
but the fact of the matter is that she was privvy to information
warning of a growing threat hell-bent on maximum carnage
and didn't do a thing.

what should I expect...nobody's been reprimanded...they
just get promoted, but maybe that's just how skewed and
backasswards things have become in the beaurocratic states
of america.


--------------------
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