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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ?
    #3369195 - 11/16/04 04:18 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

I'm curious anyone with a severe phobia ever tried
NLP's "Fast Phobia Cure"
if so, did it work or not ?
There was (sometimes still is) a lot of hype about
this technique and allegedly many people got over
Phobias and even PTSD like vietnam vets or other
Traumatic victems.


--------------------
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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: lucid]
    #3369592 - 11/16/04 05:52 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

wow, no NLP'ers here ?
anyone familiar with NLP ?


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Offlinegotmagog
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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: lucid]
    #3369606 - 11/16/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

I have read a book on NLP and it seemed interesting. Now what exactly is the NLP antiphobia technique?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: gotmagog]
    #3370525 - 11/16/04 08:33 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

NLP is the ultimate incredible shit. tie that in which advanced hypnosis and you've basically got all the positives of pyschedelics and none of the negative.

fuck you psychedelics woot woot poeple who actually use thier brains.


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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #3370727 - 11/16/04 09:05 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

I tried facing my fear of heights by jumpinmg from a helicopter at 3000 ft. about 10 times...I am still scared of heights.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #3370762 - 11/16/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

just google it, it's a very simple procedure, could be outlined in
just a few lines. Below is an excerpt with comments etc that I
googled. But the procedure itself is very simple and simply is
supposed to work by dissasociating the person from the memories
and experience and then having them reframe it so that they can
no longer think of it in a way that elicits fear. NLP itself
is an entire field but there are many sceptics out there and
NLP isn't accepted by mainstream psychology in any way and NLP
is kinda considered an quack/alternative/psudo psychology
and thrown away in the same manner (or worse) as hypnosis
meditation etc...
I've read substantially on the subject and have downloaded tons
of videos, mp3 lectures, documents etc and bought books on NLP.
To be honest I'm still reserving my opinion on it. I can say that
it hasn't helped me thus far, but perhaps it will if I get more
aquainted with it...dunno... right now I don't know what to make
of it. Quite a bit of it does make rational and logical sense
tho, but some of it doesn't.
----------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: The NLP Fast Phobia/Trauma Cure
Date: 24 Nov 91 00:16:47 GMT

The NLP Fast Phobia/Trauma cure is a simple visualization that takes five or ten minutes. It is designed to cure simple phobias and to neutralize memories of traumatic experiences such as rape, abuse, combat experiences, etc. Every therapist I've ever known who has ever tried it has found it very useful. In my experience, though, it is extremely difficult to get therapists to actually try it.

It is described in the books Using Your Brain for a Change by Richard Bandler and Heart of the Mind by Steven and Connirae Andreas. Unforunately, since the technique is so simple I think people tend to think the brief descriptions in these books are incomplete. One can actually watch the technique being used in a videotape published by NLP Comprehensive, Boulder, CO.

There are two steps to the cure. The first step is for the subject to imagine (visualize) watching a movie of herself confronting the object of her phobia or going through the experience she has a traumatic memory of. Two things are critical for this step: 1) That the subject watches herself in the movie. In other words, if X has a phobia of birds the movie is not just a movie about birds, but is a movie of X encountering birds in a way that would be frightening to her. 2) It is crucial that the subject be able to watch the movie and be detached, and in particular to stay out of the movie and remain a spectator watching herself go through the experience. You can check this afterwards by asking her "So how was it when you watched that movie?" If she answers "I felt a little afraid," then ask "Did you remember to stay back in your seat in the movie theatre, or did you actually become involved in the movie itself?"

Understandably, it's very difficult for the someone to remain unemotional while imagining watching a movie of herself encountering a situation she's afraid of or has a traumatic memory of. But there are several tricks which are usually effective in this respect. Typically the therapist will say something like this: "I want you to imagine that you're sitting in a movie theatre. Take a moment to look around the theatre, notice the decor and what the seats are like and look back for a moment to where the projection booth is. Now on the screen you will see a black and while still photo of yourself -- a snapshot -- showing you before you have the experience the movie is going to show. In a moment the screen is going to show a movie about you. This movie will be in black and white with no sound. Sort of a poor quality home movie. It may flicker a bit.

"But before the movie starts, I want you to float up out of your body into the projection booth, where you can control the movie. And as you're up there in the projection booth, with those enormous reels of film on the projector and that long beam of white light streaming towards the screen, I want you to notice [Subject's Name] sitting there in her seat waiting for the movie to start. And now I want you to start the projector and to watch [Subject's Name] as she sits in her seat down there in the theatre and watches the movie of you going through experience X."

Well, that's a bit overly elaborate but it contains the essential ingredients that usually work. If the subject still can't remain detached, be flexible until you find something that works. Have her imagine driving on the highway and seeing the movie on the screen of a drive-in in the distance. Have the movie shown on a bedsheet that flickers in the wind. One client told me, "I sat sidewise in my seat and watched it out of the corner of my eye." Whatever works.

Step Two: Have the client step into the movie at the end when the experience is over and she's safe: All the birds are gone, or the rapist has left and she's been to the hospital and been taken care of or whatever. Now, with the traumatic part over, she sees things through her own eyes just as if she were actually there. Things are in color and three dimensional. And then have her very very fast rewind the whole experience to the very beginning, like a movie rewinding or a VCR backspacing, with all the people walking backwards and everything in reverse. And then have her rewind it again even faster. And when she can rewind the whole experience in about one second, have her repeat that five or ten times.

One last step: You say to the client "Now I want you imagine yourself walking through a shopping mall/finding a bee in your house/being on the twelve floor of a building and looking out the window [or whatever]. What's that like for you now?" (Or "Now I want you to just think back to that time in Nam when you saw your buddy get his head blown off. What's it like now when you remember that?") Asking a question like this is an example of what NLP people call "future pacing." Asking the question is an important part of the intervention. What the client answers is not especially important. (Unless she says "It's still as bad as ever" in which case the therapist can feel like a failure and decide that NLP doesn't work. :-)

One drawback to the technique is that it has little dramatic impact. Clients seldom say "Oh wow! This is incredible! I can't believe I'm cured after having this awful phobia all these years!" Instead, the therapist gets his praise in throw-away lines: "Oh no, I don't have that problem anymore." Or "I don't even think about it anymore. After all, the very worst that could happen to you in an elevator is that you'd get stuck for a little while, and that's only inconvenient." Or "I can't believe that I was ever worried about something so silly."


I once spent about fifteen minutes taking a woman through this process for a memory of childhood abuse. She was just a casual acquaintance and we'd been sitting around bullshitting and she mentioned she had this terrible memory. I offered to teach her the process, and she only agreed to let me take her through it when I told her she wouldn't have to tell me any of the details of the memory. I saw her again about two weeks later and asked her, "So what is that memory like for you now?" to which her answer was, "I don't know. I haven't thought about it since you took me through that process." So I asked her to think about it right then, and her eyes went upward for several seconds and she said, "I still know what happened, but it's like I read it in a book."

My other really remarkable success was with a friend whose father had beat her with a belt when she was in high school. This experience was unusually traumatic for her, to the extent that she had taken refuge in a mental hospital. Now, in her forties, she had recently seen her father at a family funeral and he had given her a hug. Later, he called her up on offered to give her some money if she needed it (which she very badly did). She said to me, "I don't want any of his money, and if I see him again, I don't want him to hug me or even touch me."

Since I had always found my friend extremely difficult to do NLP with, I didn't even try to have her do the usual second step --- the rewinding. Instead, I asked her to imagine going through the experience again, but this time asserting herself and taking the belt away from her father. (I wanted to give her an experience of having personal power in that situation.) As I'd pretty much expected, she said that she was unable to imagine doing this, because her father had been too strong. I then suggested that she imagine herself much bigger than him, but she was unable to do that either. This was not surprising to me. I'd expected from the beginning that I'd have to offer four or five suggestions that would fail before I found one that would work. In fact, with her, that seemed to be an important part of the process.

Finally, I had her imagine simply pulling out a gun and shooting her father. She liked that a whole lot, but I wasn't willing to leave it at that. I think I then had her use a ray gun, a la Star Trek. Then I had her imagine that she didn't have a gun, but the rays emanated from her eyes, and her father, instead of dying, simply shriveled up and became very small and very old and pitiful. (I wanted to covertly help her realize that although her father may have been large and powerful twenty years ago, now he was a man in his sixties and someone that might be more pitied than feared.) Then I had her do it again, but instead of having rays come from her eyes, she simply told him how she felt about him, again with the result that he shriveled up and became old.

As usual, she didn't do exactly what I had instructed, but had her father shrink down into a Rumplestiltskin (her words), something that caused her great glee.

When we were done, I asked her what her memory of that old incident was now like, and she said something like, "It seems to be better." This answer certainly didn't convince me that I'd been successful, but I thought I'd done the best I could.

About two weeks later, she astonished me by telling me that she'd decided to call her father up and agree to accept any money he wanted to offer her. They then made a luncheon date, and she started having lunch regularly with him once a week after that. She told me that she had now become his best friend --- in fact, almost the only friend he had in the world.

I don't claim that this experience is typical. But back when I used to do NLP quite a bit with friends and acquaintances, I used the phobia/trauma cure a number of times with what seemed to be pretty good success. In honesty, though, I also have to admit that there were a few times when, as far as I could tell, it didn't seem to produce any results, or when I was not able to successfully take a subject through the process at all.

--------------------------
Not surprising at all. No matter how well-done, rigorous, and conclusive a study is, it will not meet the above criteria unless it is ``published". The Psychological journals and Academic press have been notoriously hostile to certain topics, and studies supporting NLP techniqies fall into that category.

For instance: In 1992 a study of the NLP ``fast phobia cure'' was completed. The study took a population of ``simple'' phobics, and divided them into three groups. Group A was given the NLP process and then was interviewed each week for six weeks about their phobic experiences. Group B was given accelerated progressive-desensitization treatment and the interviews, and group C was given just the interviews. The subjects were re-evaluated at 6 months, one year, and 5 years and grouped by the level of returning symptoms: none, few, many, all. At the end of the 5 years, the results showed that the NLP group fell 90%+ into the ``none'' category, the p-d group was about 35% ``none", 33% ``few'' and the rest ``many'' or ``all", and the control group was 90%+ ``all".

The results were written up in proper fashion and submitted to three journals (the part of the process I was involved in). The first two returned them almost immediately with notes saying that they fell outside the subject areas which they publish. The other actually sent the article to the reviewers, who declined to review it on the grounds that NLP was ``pseudo-science'' and not worth their time and effort.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: lucid]
    #3370777 - 11/16/04 09:13 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

NLP isn't something you learn by reading a book. its very very subtle. don't expect to get changes without learning to master it first.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: lucid]
    #3370788 - 11/16/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

"User's Manual for the Brain"
is one of the definitive books on the subject.
You can also download tons of stuff via the Gnutella
network (I use Gnucleus) by searching for NLP,
fast phobia cure and for some of the major developers
of NLP like Richard Bandler. I have a 2 hour video of
one of his seminars, very funny charming guy, the video
is a lot of fun to watch. but it
remains to be seem how useful all his work is.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #3370808 - 11/16/04 09:20 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

I agree but this is why it's kinda subjective.
However the fast phobia cure is a very very straight forward
proceedure - nothing subtle about it and no need for any
type of mastery. I've both tried it on my own and downloaded
a mp3 file which first described the entire process
very well and then lead the listener through the proceedure.
I've heard it several times (according the the mp3 itself the
proceedure need only be done once), and it hasn't cured me...
but I'm still open to the idea...
I havn't given up on NLP just yet...


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: lucid]
    #3370820 - 11/16/04 09:23 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

lucid, nlp is kind of similar to hypnosis. there are hypnosis tapes. listening to them a couple times isn't going to get the same results as going to someone who has been doing it professionally for 30 years


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: NLP "Fast Phobia Cure", anyone tried this ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #3371091 - 11/16/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 26 days ago)

have u ever been hypnotized ?
I'm real curious about what the experience is like,
Unfortunately, as much as I would love to be hypnotized
I've never been (even at a stage hypnotist show), tried
at least 40 or 50 different hypnosis tapes and still never
been hypnotized. Once I got so desperate I tried getting
drunk and taking a mild tranquilizer with the hopes that
it might losen me up enuff to make the hypnosis tapes
(mp3s rather) work, but it still did not work... bummer :frown:


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