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Offlinetwiggedoubt
twigburst
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Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 2,387
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3350719 - 11/12/04 09:08 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Try telling that to all the people doing 5 years MM for 5 grams of crack vs all the people doing 5 years for a kilo of cocaine.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #3350853 - 11/12/04 09:47 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I saw a news report on that a while ago. Basically it ends up being a completely racist law. Same drug with two different penalties.

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Offlinenycomyco
Stranger

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 651
Loc: PA
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3351018 - 11/12/04 10:35 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

right on cb9fl.
twiggie, are you assuming that because a law is 100x more sensitive to crack than it is to powder cocaine, that this is reflective of the pharmacological reality? The truth is crack is more "addictive" because it hits the bloodstream faster than intranasally snorted powder coke. BUT, if the law is based on addiction potential (which the 100:1 ratio doesn't reflect anyway), then the law completely ignores the fact that powder coke can be dissolved and injected, having similar pharmacokinetic effects as crack. Most of this info comes from my professor, who is one of the few who has federal government funding to conduct drug experiments with actual people.
There are so many myths about crack that it's ridiculous. Firstly, per dose, crack costs the same as coke. Crack is the same chemical, only it is missing the salt HCL. the reason it is removed (with baking soda or another base, i think) is that cokeHCL cannot be combusted at a temperature lower than the temperature of decomposition of cocaine. Without the base, it burns lower. The crack-baby myth is bs- Bush Sr. said crack was the most dangerous domestic epidemic, and so the idea of crack babies being too stupid to be worried about by the government spread. In fact, the expected generation of crack-babies did not entirely come about. The truth is that tobacco and alcohol have more serious affects on babies than cocaine. And also, why not cocaine babies?
Some numbers: overall, more white people do CRACK than black people, while a higher percentage of blacks do crack. Despite the fact that more whites do crack, blacks are arrested for crack offenses 22x more than whites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The enforcement and the law itself are extremely racist. The law indicates increased severity when within 1000 feet of public housing. For enforcement, look at arrest numbers for race, and check out what happened in Tulia Texas, and how everyone above the officer ignored his lack of evidence and instead rewarded him.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: nycomyco]
    #3351290 - 11/12/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

> Cocaine is the HCL salt and Crack is the freebase.

And heroin is diacetylmorphine. The acetyl allows the morphine to pass the blood barrier into the brain more quickly than plain morphine.

Is dexromethorphan.hbr the same thing as dextromethorphan freebase? No, absolutely not. One is a salt, the other is a freebase, two very different things. Same with crack and cocaine... it is easy to go back and forth between the two, but a salt is not a freebase and a freebase is not a salt.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinenycomyco
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Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 651
Loc: PA
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Seuss]
    #3353084 - 11/12/04 05:58 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Crack:powder coke is not analogous to Heroin:morphine. The additional functional group to morphine to make heroin affects (as you said) the ability of the opiate to cross the BBB. The chemical change to cocaineHCL to make crack cocaine does not effect pharmacokinetics (besides usual route of administration), but rather solubility and combustion temperature. Crack itself is not more potent than powder cocaine, but smoking cocaine has a faster/stronger effect than snorting it.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: nycomyco]
    #3353515 - 11/12/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Cocaine HCl is a different chemical but not a different drug than the freebase (crack).

Quote:

Salts are usually crystalline solids rather than oils or waxy solids, which is why they are so popular with drugs, it makes them easier to handle, and the drug properties are not changed. Think about it, you have HCl in your stomach, and acid throughout your body, so if you ingest a drug in either form, it will end up being in the same form (probably a salt) in your body no matter how it started out.




Drug pharmacology is no different between freebase and HCl salt.

Dextromethorphan (yuck!!!) and Dextromethorphan HBr (yuck!!!) would elicit the same pharmacological effect. Morphine and Diacetylmorphine would not elicit the same effect.

More to the point, to consider crack and cocaine the same drug would be wrong. As I stated in my earlier post a poster on the Shroomery believed crack and cocaine were the same drug. I pointed out that he is wrong but he refused to accept evidence stating otherwise.

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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
    #3353552 - 11/12/04 09:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

The War on Drugs should end. The oppinion that the drug war should end is regularly expressed by educated and intellegent pundits - the Economist, for example, takes the position that the drug war is a failure.

But, neither party will take that position. It just isn't accepted by a large portion of the US populace, who are regularly exposed to anti-drug propaganda.

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
    #3355647 - 11/13/04 12:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I've always thought of the Drug War as very similar to the Salem Witch trials. everyone knows its wrong but they are too afraid of persecution to speak up about it. Any polls regarding the drug issue need to be taken with a grain of salt, because most people are too afraid to admit they do drugs, or speak out against prohibition. Perhaps if a major party endorsed the ending of the drug war, this would cause a lot of people to 'come out of the closet' regarding their feelings on this issue.

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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3355753 - 11/13/04 01:05 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

also, a lot of politics isn't choosing your issues based on public opinion but convinicing the public that you are right. ending the drug war would be a hard sell, but i think it could be done. of course, i, like many on here, am biased.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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OfflineSpongerock
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 51
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
    #3355846 - 11/13/04 01:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Bill Maher is a blubbering vagina...

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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Spongerock]
    #3357432 - 11/13/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Anybody remember when Jesse Ventura was the Gov of MN? He said that all drugs should be legalized and so should prostitution because it was a failure and needed to be treated as a health/social issue not a criminal one. He said it off the cuff in interveiws but never had any intentions of implimenting legislature....the media crucified him anyways...politicans are too afraid of bringing up the WOD failure because any political enemy can use it to smear their image.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
    #3363186 - 11/15/04 08:53 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

> Cocaine HCl is a different chemical but not a different drug than the freebase (crack).

I can accept that definition.  (I would not have considered DXM (yuck!) salts a different drug, but I would have considered a DXM salt and DXM freebase to be different drugs the same way I would have considered crack and cocaine to be different drugs.  Bah, it isn't that important anyway... :grin:)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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