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Offlinelepiota
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fan system (with diagrams)
    #3362803 - 11/15/04 05:38 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)


i am planning to build a fan system to my pod for air exchange. i would use computer fans and put filters on them, so to introduce clean air into the pod instead of possibly contaminated air. i was asking myself where to set the fans, i think that all possible designs have their pros and cons, considering that:

- CO2 is heavier than air
- humid air is heavier than dry air
- cold air is heavier than warm air

please look at my diagram:



* design 1. both inflow and outflow are on the top of the pod: this would probably leave co2 partially unaffected, but would preserve humidity best and maybe decrease the temperature inside.
* design 2. inflow on top, outflow on bottom: fresh and dry air comes in from the top creating messy currents inside the pod (fresh is heavier than warm, but lighter than co2 and humid air), the outflow fan takes out the co2 but also humid air, and this might decrease humidity.
* design 3. inflow on bottom, outflow on top: fresh air is blown directly on the cakes, decreasing co2 level, outflow on top takes out the warm air.
* design 4. both inflow and outflow on bottom: fresh air is blown directly on the cakes and the outflow fan takes out co2 and humidity. warm air is undisturbed on the top.

i personally think that an outflow on the bottom would be wiser for getting rid of co2 and for preserving high temperatures inside, though it would also decrease humidity. if the outside temperature is high, maybe a top inflow would also work fine since there's no need to mind about the temperature. but what about the inflow? should it blow on cakes or go on top, creating funny currents inside the pod?


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: lepiota]
    #3362805 - 11/15/04 05:42 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

if i were u id go for number 2.
i would mix the mosthumid air (which will be at the top),
with the surrounding air and push the co2 which will collect at the base
(since it is heavier than air) out of the container.

be sure to filter the incoming air, such can be archived by using a lil box filled with polyfill.

besides that, making that diagram was a great idea to show ur idea besides just describgin it :smile:

number 2 is the way to go.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


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InvisibleCitricM
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: ohmatic]
    #3362887 - 11/15/04 07:13 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

My suggestion, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1303334/page//fpart/1/vc/1


You are going to seriousally kill your humidity using fans =(

Another suggestion is hooking up a cool mist to the top of #2, and a polyfill hole on the bottom.


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: Citric]
    #3362982 - 11/15/04 08:32 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

well i think that every kind of airchange would kill humidity, by the time you're pumping out the co2 you're also pumping out humidity, even opening the pod twice a day and hand-fanning would kill humidity so... it's something we should live with! you only have to find the right compromise between humidity preservation and airchange, maybe activating the fans only for a couple of minutes per hour or per day... fans are just a cleaner alternative to the open-the-pod-and-hand-fan tek. the double-tub tek provides airchange without fans, but are those filtered holes sufficient for a fan-free airchange? wouldn't all the co2 just stay inside?


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Anonymous

Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: lepiota]
    #3363004 - 11/15/04 08:45 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

a bubbler in a tyvek box with that being the air going in will be a good hummidity comprise


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: fee]
    #3363008 - 11/15/04 08:49 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

what about an inflow fan and NO outflow at all? (or just a hole, for extra pressure)?


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Anonymous

Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: lepiota]
    #3363016 - 11/15/04 08:55 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

no you want the bubler as the inflow ait and then a hole stuffed with polly fill near the very bottom of the terrariam


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InvisibleKyKid
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: fee]
    #3363036 - 11/15/04 09:13 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

just use a pmp and there's no fanning needed and the humidity stay up great and the co2 get evenly mixed with the rest of the air and then eventually its forced out through the lid which isn't air tight. if your going for a larger set up fruiting chamber then go with a cool mist and ultrasonic or just the cool mist for the Fae and then manually mist


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Anonymous

Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: KyKid]
    #3363040 - 11/15/04 09:17 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

no you need a vent vent hole near the bottom of the terrarium unless you are running the bubbler all the time


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InvisibleKyKid
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: fee]
    #3363048 - 11/15/04 09:23 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

you dont need nothing at the bottom, the c02 get evenly mixed with the air inside the chamber and then get evenly pushed out under the lid as the humid air is rising from the bottom. yes you have to run the bubble wands all the time but what does it matter, then you have a fully automized chamber, no fanning no misting just check on it and maybe add some water everyonce i awhile. but maybe i missing your guys points some were along the post.


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Anonymous

Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: KyKid]
    #3363057 - 11/15/04 09:28 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

co2 is heavier than air the air will get out before the co2 but it will theralectally work


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InvisibleKyKid
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: fee]
    #3363065 - 11/15/04 09:34 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Like i said i may be missing something in this whole post but I'm am 100 percent positive that the co2 will get pushed out just as fast as the other air in the chamber, literally 100's use the pmp without any problems with c02, humidity and the other usual daily chores like fanning and misting, there none of that needed and it works great, don't question something that's been tried many times over again. But again i maybe missing something, but from what I'm getting out of this post you guys are looking for a automated fruiting chamber and the pmp is probably the cheapest easiest and most effective one you'll find, just don't try to make it difficult just follow the tek and it'll work great.


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Invisiblenoxy
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: lepiota]
    #3363086 - 11/15/04 09:44 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Fans dont make sense on a small scale
you dont want to push all the CO2 out the little guys still want
2000 to 5000 ppm of CO2 during pinning and cropping
this means 1 to 3 air exchanges per hour easily obtained with an air
pump unless you have quite a few cubic feet of area to exchange
even a small cumputer fan is too much for a small chamber
now if you have a large cabinet or say a converted freezer or something rather large then a couple of fans would make sense


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: noxy]
    #3363313 - 11/15/04 11:53 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

I just lost 50 IQ reading this thread.

First and foremost, fans are not needed or wanted in a tub-style chamber. Air blowing on your cakes would dry them out very, very quickly.

Computer fans aren't designed to move air through a significant resistance, blocking them up with a filter that is actualy efficient at removing harmful particles would cause a large reduction in air flow, stressing the fan and burning it out quickly.

You all are thinking about the CO2 is heavier than O2 thing way too much. Sure, that's true.. but think about it. Actually how heavy are gasses? We're not talking about oil and water here, they're very light. The only way they would actually form in layers is if the tub was completely stagnant. The slightest air current is going to cause swirling and mixing.

You need to make a PMP. It's perfect, and solves all of the fan problems perfectly.

1) The incomming air is percolated through water that is the correct temperature, hydrating and warming it.

2) The incomming air displaces CO2, mixing with it as the positive pressure slowly pushes gasses upwards and out of the chamber.

3) Air exchange is slow and constant, keeping humidity high without the need to bombard your cakes with dry air every few hours.

Outside air is only ~350ppm CO2, so it is not difficult at all to keep CO2 levels well below the >5000ppm level wanted for fruiting.


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: discman1]
    #3363551 - 11/15/04 01:06 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

yup, the computer fan thing was just a cheap alternative to the bubbler. if you have to buy a bubbler and a heater the budget goes up too much.


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Offlinediscman1
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: lepiota]
    #3363573 - 11/15/04 01:09 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

You would have to buy a heater anyway, if you need heat...

Fanning manually would be the best route if you can't afford an air pump and a couple of bubble wands.


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Offlinelepiota
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Re: fan system (with diagrams) [Re: discman1]
    #3363697 - 11/15/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

heater... yes you're right. i think i will use a 60W bulb for incubation (wrapping jars in foil to avoid light) and room temperature (about 67?F) for fruiting. that's my poor man's heater. just looking for the poor man's air pump right now...


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