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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3363219 - 11/15/04 09:14 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"


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Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (11/21/04 03:59 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3363289 - 11/15/04 09:45 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Weight loss = more calories expended than ingested. This is basic physics (law of thermodynamics) no matter how you may try to clutter it with neurotic behavior. Hopeful or hopeless mindstates are irrelevant to the actual mechanics involved. If you are hopeful and eat 4500 calories per day you WILL gain weight. If you are hopeless and eat 1800 calories per day you WILL lose weight.




Indeed. Positive thought might motivate one to take necessary action to physically allow weight loss to happen, but only then.. positive thought can produce change through action, but not by way of the positive thought itself.

Not to mention that it doesn't require "positive" thought at all for one to take action to allow the loss of weight, some people don't need to motivate themselves to do it, they just do it. "Positive" energy/"negative" energy do not actually exist, there is merely energy.

I don't think it matters what end of the illusory spectrum you start out from, the important thing is transcendance of the spectrum itself. One doesn't have to be from the "positive" end to motivate oneself to transcend, either, it is letting go, which can be done from any position. What kind of mental situation was Eckhart Tolle in when he became "enlightened"? :wink:

Positive affirmation, negative affirmation... neither is letting go, each continues to cut agansit the flow of being. When one simply is, one needs no motivation to let any action flow through them, it happens naturally. Surrender to the Way, or perish from having your life support severed. :evil:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3363440 - 11/15/04 10:31 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

If the table energy is bad due to the dealer or any of the players...

Yes folks, even with amazing adepts like Lunar who can read "table energy" (whatever-the-fuck that is!), Las Vegas continues to grow by leaps and bounds.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364069 - 11/15/04 01:12 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"Our external reality is in large part determined by our internal dialog. Before we can create something it has to be visualized in the mind first. That does not mean that anything that we visualize will become reality, but our will determines our condition to a great extent. Our society is the result of a collective vision. Your statement is a generalization that does not prove true in every instance. Very often we use our will to bend our external reality. I lost 100 pounds of weight due to my will in recent years. My external reality was greatly altered. "

wow. Huehue said something that i agree with 100%

:thumbup: :thumbup:

i have now heard no less than 8 people concisely, thoughtfully and solidly refute the basic premise (as i understand it) of swamis argument.

Will cant change reality? remove all will from a person and he will be a sedentary vegetable. THEN you cant change reality. Will IS the force by which reality is changed. EVER SINGLE ACTION that has an effect on external reality has its root in thought and will.

Even as swami tries to convince us that our thoughts/mental states dont change reality, he is using his will to change reality by making his posts.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3364105 - 11/15/04 01:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Even as swami tries to convince us that our thoughts/mental states dont change reality, he is using his will to change reality by making his posts.

Ever see all those 'Visualize World Peace" bumper stickers popular a decade or two ago? Now look at the state of the world. Nuff said.

Action changes reality which may be preceded by hope or hopelessness, anger or love, the emotional motivating force does not matter.

I can roll the dice on the craps table and visualize a seven and chant "seven" while tripping, the dice don't really give a fuck about my mindstate; they respond to the physical variables presented - that is all.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364119 - 11/15/04 01:23 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

the thing about the dice is true, but that is because the dice are not concious, the way they affect reality relies entirely on physical conditions. humans are concious, the way the effect reality relies largely on their mental state. And that DOES matter , someone who is hopeless, despairing etc will act in VERY different ways from someone who is peacefull, happy etc, and the outcome will be drastically different.

as for visualizing world peace, it is impossible to act on something you havent first imagined.

but im done with this. i honestly believe your the only one here who still (pretends) not to understand


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3364176 - 11/15/04 01:36 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

the thing about the dice is true,

humans are concious, the way the effect reality relies largely on their mental state


Your two statements are contradictory. You agree that the human's mental state does not affect the outcome, then propose it does.

Hard to follow.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364312 - 11/15/04 02:09 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

""


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (11/21/04 03:57 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3364334 - 11/15/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

""Hard to follow. ""

so make it easy? :P hehe

:confused: :thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3364424 - 11/15/04 02:28 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Usually it is where some guy has a lousy attitude and keeps crying woe is me these cards aren't fair.

So how does that affect you? The deck still contains 52 cards of four different suits. A rational card-counter doesn't care about the attitudes of the other players.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364509 - 11/15/04 02:42 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

So the point your making is.............

That a person has no real will power over the things around him ?

Well I am a living breathing result of such things. Optimism and hope were all I had at the age of 17. Had I just accepted my life I would be dead.

The will power I gave to the world around me, moved mountains from my path.

Hope and believing are all we have. These are what can make the impossible happen. There is no way to prove or disprove this.

You gave an example of the bumper sticker thing. Who is to say it at zero impact? Mabey that campaign saved 100,000 lives. But how can you prove it?

It can't be shown as a truth or a lie. Hope and positive thinking can change reality. In a very real way..........AT least that's is what I think


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364530 - 11/15/04 02:45 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

".


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (11/21/04 03:56 PM)


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3364558 - 11/15/04 02:50 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I spend a lot of time in Casinos. Let me tell you that a person's attitude and beliefs can change the luck at the tables. I have been thru many different learning curves at the tables. And I truly think a person can effect the dice so to speak.

I keep careful track of my winnings and losings. I am ahead by a large margin over the past 3 years.

When I go into the Casino I know I have the edge. Mind over matter works for those who believe.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3364645 - 11/15/04 03:12 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

*Swami looks out the window and sees and another billion dollar hotel being built*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364729 - 11/15/04 03:32 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

ill clarify. The dice is an inanimate object, with no mind. Therefore the effect that the dice has on reality, and the way it interacts with reality (what side will come up if it is rolled) depend entirely on its physical surroundings.

The human being, on the other hand, has a concious mind. The way it interacts with reality will be different depending on its mental state, unlike the dice its behaviour is not ruled entirely by physical circumstances.

I never intended to propose that positive thinking can affect random chance like a dice roll. rather positive thinking has a huge effect on how people behave, how resilient they are to hardships, how determined they are and how effectively they overcome obstacles, how sucesfull their enterprises and relationships are, etc etc etc


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Swami]
    #3364819 - 11/15/04 03:49 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

You miss my point: If I had not first visualized this change that I was to undertake the physics you describe would never have occurred. Before it was reality it was an idea. I bent reality to my will. Look Ma!!! I can manipulate reality!!! You talk as if my weight loss would have occurred no matter what,rather I wanted it or not...a coincidence, which is a major flaw in your logic. I don't think that anyone here would insinuate that a vision could be transmuted to reality without an act of the will. My act of will was to exercise self control...the change was almost......magical.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3364824 - 11/15/04 03:49 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"wow. Huehue said something that i agree with 100%"

There is a first time for everything!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3365312 - 11/15/04 05:30 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

".


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (11/21/04 03:54 PM)


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3365446 - 11/15/04 05:49 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I am no one to be preaching about the mind changing reality but......... When I go to the tables I spend about an hour in the parking lot meditating. Not to win but, when to stop,what games to play etc..... It may be I break even or win big. But for some reason I always know before hand when a long losing streak is going to happen. That is why I never lose big. I do lose somedays :rolleyes:

Yeah some people would say " Your just a good gambler and you know when to stop" But it is not that simple.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Optimism and Hope are ALWAYS Good [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3365487 - 11/15/04 05:56 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Often times those are the winning tables.

Yeah, about 48.25% of the time.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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