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InvisibleSoopaX
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Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Cessation of Thought
    #3359748 - 11/14/04 02:14 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

A few years ago I was 'turned on' to the Consciousness/Awareness path by a older friend of mine. He, in my opinion, is totally enlightened. By this I mean he realizes in a very total way that his thoughts are the cause of his suffering. Due to hours spent in meditation I believe that he is able to totally stop his thinking mind and allow pure consciousness awareness to "be". I believe that this allows him to live his life without expectations to be let down on and have his mind cause him to suffer.

I have read a number of books about meditation and cessation of thought. I am wondering if people that are really into this are using the "cessation" of though as their 'goal' or if they are more trying to allow the mind to be totally focused on one thing.

If this sort of talk is popular in here I'll be habitating this forum frequently!


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: SoopaX]
    #3359778 - 11/14/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

If this sort of talk is popular in here I'll be habitating this forum frequently!

Then by all means.. Welcome aboard! :smile:



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: SoopaX]
    #3359784 - 11/14/04 02:20 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

What purpose does stopping your thoughts serve?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3359797 - 11/14/04 02:22 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

since skorpive musterion didnt say it i will , hes big into cessation of thought and pure experience. i am just starting to set out on this path and i think its a good one.

This is a quesiton i have actually. the meditations i previously practiced had the goal of focusing thought on one thing only, like a mantra "om tat sat om, om tat sat om, om tat sat om" is this a good idea, or should i try to maintain a state of 'no mind?'

or is the single point focus (mantra or breath or madala) a precursor to no mind? an intermediary steP?



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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


Edited by Moonshoe (11/14/04 03:15 PM)


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3359825 - 11/14/04 02:27 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

What purpose does the incessant noise and dysfunction of compulsive thinking serve?

It's not about stopping thoughts permanently. It's about using your mind, and not your mind using you. It's about using thought as a system, using the mind as a tool, and only using it for practical purposes - when it is needed.

It's about rising above the mind and thoughts. This is the essence of meditation.

It's about identifying yourself as the spacious awareness, the stillness from which thoughts and mind arise out of.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: SoopaX]
    #3359837 - 11/14/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
If this sort of talk is popular in here I'll be habitating this forum frequently!




Well then: Welcome home, my friend! :smile:  :heart:

We've missed you. :wink:


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Invisiblejux
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3359940 - 11/14/04 02:48 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

I don't know about you, but it's damn near impossible for me to consiously make the decision not to think...

"ok, and stop thinking ... now! ....


Hey, I think it worked... DAMNIT!
Hmmm ... let's just try again.

Blank in three, two, one...

*meatloaf*
DAMNIT!"


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Registered: 11/13/04
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3360002 - 11/14/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
What purpose does stopping your thoughts serve?




Everything :smile:

Usually our minds are occupied with monologue (talking to yourself about things that you have experienced or plan on experiencing in the future), dialogue (arguing with yourself about things), attitudes (feelings about our thoughts), mental imagery (imagining scenarios in the future or replaying scenarios from the past) and just plain thoughts.  As our consciousness can only focus on one thing at a time, we miss out on the never-ending here and now moment.

Our mind is a wonderful tool as is, say for example, a car or a hammer. However, we have the ability and the knowledge to use the car when we need to, then to not use it and allow it to rest.  Most of the time our minds are playing the same thoughts back to us over and over, preventing us from being 'here and now".  How many thoughts that you have are "oringinal", and once you have that original thought, do you usually keep rehashing it, evaluating it, 'thinking' about it? Thinking is a great tool, our rational mind is what has allowed humans to create so many wonderful things, but NOT Thinking is also a wonderful gift.

When we are trying to solve a problem, by all means, we should be engaging our thinking minds.  When we are doing something that doesn't require thought, we should be able to just stop our thoughts and appreciate the 'now' moment.

When we allow our thoughts to dominate our minds, we are burying our pure awareness, the pure self.


I hope that this helps! If you'd like more explanation or want to discuss some of the things I said, please feel free to PM me or to reply in here!


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3360016 - 11/14/04 03:12 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
This is a quesiton i have actually. the meditations i previously practiced had the goal of focusing thought on one thing only, like a mantra "om tat sat om, om tat sat om, om tat sat om" is this a good idea, or should i try to maintain a state of 'no mind?'

or is the single point focus (mantra or breath or madala) a precursor to no mind? an intermediary steP?





I think that it's almost impossible for the average person to "stop thinking". If you can draw attention to the here and now, to your breath, to a mantra, you'll be training your mind to focus on what you want it to, rather than what it wants to. Eventually being able to focus on one thing will turn into being able to not even focus... you'll just 'be' the pure 'being'


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: SoopaX]
    #3360107 - 11/14/04 03:41 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

"stop thinking, focus your focusing"
-unknown:p


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (11/14/04 03:42 PM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: jux]
    #3360141 - 11/14/04 03:48 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

It's difficult, I admit.. but with practice we can learn to do it regularly.

The key is to not get frustrated and give up. No matter how many times you have to correct yourself back to not thinking, don't let it get to you. It will work with time.

One thing I like to do is concentrate on what I hear in the ambient sound. Listen closely. Be attentive. Keep your focus on the flow of sound as it passes by. Pretend there is something important that you must listen for. It's so important that you WILL keep your focus. Ambient sound has these little subtle fluxuations and changes that can keep you "busy" while you're doing it, so to speak.

You will undoubtedly still get sidetracked into thinking something, but just steer yourself back to being attentive of your surrounding soundscape. I find this much more resultant than just "trying to not think", which in itself is a thought.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3360167 - 11/14/04 03:56 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

do not analyze your surroundings?

:confused: :thumbup:

let your surroundings be the analyzes?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: Gomp]
    #3360197 - 11/14/04 04:07 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Yes, this is an important elaboration of my point...

I'm not saying one should analyze the ambient sound they hear, but instead simply let it flow past their ears... as if there is something important that they must listen for. If you get caught up in analyzing what you've already heard, you will miss it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3360232 - 11/14/04 04:16 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

not sure cessation is a valid term although it has attractive nature.

but in trying to stop thoughts one comes against them
one senses what thought is.

mental activity cascades from association. trying to stop thought is like fighting, and either fight or flight is more association for the underlying association mechanism. One can move only towards mental events even when backpedalling full speed.

so one learns what thought is.
then one can begin to allow thought to go on its own.

one releases thought and neither approaches nor avoids.
things will quiet down quite a bit.

not easy to learn.

invaluable.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3360287 - 11/14/04 04:26 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

"trying to not think, is the thought of not thinking"
-unknown :P


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: jux]
    #3362222 - 11/15/04 12:49 AM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

jux said:
I don't know about you, but it's damn near impossible for me to consiously make the decision not to think...

"ok, and stop thinking ... now! ....


Hey, I think it worked... DAMNIT!
Hmmm ... let's just try again.

Blank in three, two, one...

*meatloaf*
DAMNIT!"




That is because you are trying to put out a forest fire by pouring gasoline on it. Cessation of thought doesn't occur by more thought, by consciously thinking that you should temporarily not think, or by having the desire to have the cessation of thought.

Rather, it occurs as the product of living in the moment. Once you live in the present, in meditation or prayer or whatever your method, the past and future join to this continuous moment, and you stop thinking about what has been, or will be, or what you want, or used to have. This is the cessation of thought- living in the moment. Spontaneous thought stops, and with the lack of all the burdens, stresses, desires, woes and all other extremes you can relax into what you are in this moment, the Middle Path of what has been and what will be.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: Ravus]
    #3364180 - 11/15/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

'let go and you will see, what you were holding was imaginary'

the hardest problem one may have with meditation in the beginning is associating themselves with the 'voice in their head'. It becomes a struggle of hitting yourself passive, chasing your own tail.

really, realize yourself as the observer, disconnect, take a step back, and watch the stillness. letting go is not an action like our language implies :smile:

or something


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: deff]
    #3364197 - 11/15/04 03:40 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Cessation of Thought, is focusing? :P
hehe

:confused: :thumbup:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: Gomp]
    #3368139 - 11/16/04 11:32 AM (12 years, 21 days ago)

Smashing good thread. :thumbup: :wink:

Cessation of thought is a powerful experience (unless, of course, it is caused through permanent physical means :drooling:), but these would be peak experiences, and are only reasonable when one is perfectly secure and has no pressing concern which requires thinking.

The mind is still going to need to be running most of the time, but that does not mean that it has to run in such a manner that one's awareness in their state of being has to be either severely limited or blocked completely. The question is of where one is centered. :wink:

The mind is almost never an appropriate place to have one's awareness centered in, because this seperates one from their direct experience of this moment, which means that one is inevitably perceiving reality through a constricted, obtrusive, opaque lens. Not only this, but when the mind is being centered in, it is almost completely in control of your experience - not only does it block your true, constant state of being in the ever present Now, but it is creating a false state of being under its control, defined by one's emotions and one's complex of addictions and, of course, thoughts. This seperates one from reality and pure awareness even more. :shocked:

The mind and its false sense of being that is derived from the mind will define, judge, and degrade one's own experiences. One's life will be led from a state of unconsistent, unconstant, unfufilling, incomplete, unaware seperateness because a tool that enables one to understand and know reality is super-charged, poorly structured, and with unlimited, unquestionable power. Not only this, but it is holding one's natural, whole, constant state of being that is not identified with or defined by the mind and external situations for ransom. :evil:

When Being is centered in, life is everything life was meant to be. :lol: One is perceiving reality in an open and free, clear, translucent lens. One is truly aware and present in the moment. Everything is experienced with an identifiable richness and unique energy. Every second in the Now is perfect and whole. While the mind quite possibly could be running while one is centered in Being, it is no longer the problem that it once was when it was being centered in. There is a consciousness that is actually observing the mind and feeling the thoughts running through it. It is no longer in a state of frantic frenzy as it is no longer responsible for producing the core experience of the moment, or protecting and continuing its identification as a distinct, individual identity. It is no longer wasting valuable energy and awareness, and it actually becomes a helpful, valuable tool that can be used as necessary, as wished. It is no longer defining one's experience, one's own experience is naturally defining one's experience, with a more accurate and complete, greater intensity.  :stoned:

Being is presence, is awareness, and it usually requires being aware that one is aware to really be present. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Cessation of Thought [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3368251 - 11/16/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 21 days ago)

too many concepts in this


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