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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Free State Project
    #3357396 - 11/13/04 10:05 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

There was a movement called the "Free State Project" whose goal was to get a bunch of liberty-oriented individuals(translation: libertarians) to move en masse to a state and help make that state a paragon of liberty. The state that was chosen was New Hampshire. What strikes me is that Michael Badnarik did not even get on the New Hampshire ballot, so how successful was this project really? Seems like an utter failure to me.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Free State Project [Re: silversoul7]
    #3357473 - 11/13/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
There was a movement called the "Free State Project" whose goal was to get a bunch of liberty-oriented individuals(translation: libertarians) to move en masse to a state and help make that state a paragon of liberty. The state that was chosen was New Hampshire. What strikes me is that Michael Badnarik did not even get on the New Hampshire ballot, so how successful was this project really? Seems like an utter failure to me.



You're referring to it in the past tense -- it is an ongoing project in a fairly early stage. The goal was to get 20,000 liberty loving individuals to move gradually to New Hampshire and attempt to reduce the size of government once there via politics. No one is required to move until the goal of 20,000 is met and even then they are not required (not that they will be FORCED to move if they've signed up) to be in New Hampshire until I believe 2012. Of the 6194 current FSPers committed to the move, only 312 are currently in New Hampshire.

As far as the LP's inability to get on the New Hampshire ballot, that was more a failure of logistics than anything else. X (I'll say 2,500 but don't quote me on that) signatures were required in both New Hampshire counties in order to get on the ballot. If I remember correctly, the LP acquired X+Y signatures in one of the counties and X-Z signatures in another and thus didn't qualify. Didn't really have anything to do with the FSP.

The FSP is somewhat behind in recruitment from what I hear though so it may end up being a failure. It's certainly a good idea and perhaps something I'd consider a bit later in life.

Free State Project


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: Free State Project [Re: silversoul7]
    #3357477 - 11/13/04 10:50 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

It's still going on, man. Check my sig out. I'm a member but last time I checked there was only 6,100 members. The goal is to get 20,000 members to join, and when that happens we have 5 years to make the move. After that the Free State Project dissolves, and we show the world that we can live in a truly free society.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Free State Project [Re: silversoul7]
    #3357482 - 11/13/04 10:51 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Interesting idea.  I have heard Vermont is very Left-ish
leaning while New Hampshire is very Independent leaning.

I don't know if libertarians want to move to a place that turns into
a chunk of ice in the winters though.  "I'm willing to give up my
liberty if I can enjoy 75 degrees year round." might be the mantra
of some people.  :smirk:

Also, the big enemy in America is not the state governments...it
is the federal government.  No matter what state you move to you
will still have to deal with it.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Free State Project [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3357529 - 11/13/04 11:03 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Interesting idea. I have heard Vermont is very Left-ish
leaning while New Hampshire is very Independent leaning.



Correct:

There's no better place for freedom-loving Americans than New Hampshire... New Hampshire was the state chosen by signed FSP participants in a vote that took place in August and September 2003. It was chosen because it has the lowest state and local tax burden in the continental U.S., the second-lowest level of dependence on federal spending in the U.S., a citizen legislature where state house representatives have not raised their $100 per year salary since 1889, the lowest crime levels in the U.S., a dynamic economy with plenty of jobs and investment, and a culture of individual responsibility indicated by, for example, a lack of seatbelt and helmet requirements for adults.
-Free State Project

Quote:

I don't know if libertarians want to move to a place that turns into
a chunk of ice in the winters though. "I'm willing to give up my
liberty if I can enjoy 75 degrees year round." might be the mantra
of some people.




There are a good many who are in favor of a Free State Project (were involved in it before the vote took place...) but disagree so much with the choice that they are refusing to now participate and some have even started their own separate movements, such as Free State Wyoming. Temperature is usually less of a factor for these people then a simple abhorrance of the region (nice proximity to the socialist cesspools of Massachusetts and New York) and a utilitarian aversion to moving so far from where they currently are.

Quote:

Also, the big enemy in America is not the state governments...it
is the federal government. No matter what state you move to you
will still have to deal with it.



Indeed. While I and the vast majority of libertarians (and I would surmise the vast majority of FSPers) believe that libertarianism, if it takes root, is going to have to come from the top down, with the federal government first being reduced to its Constitutional boundaries, a primary goal of the FSP is to act as a proverbial beacon to both the other states and individual Americans. Hopefully it will succeed.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Free State Project [Re: silversoul7]
    #3357647 - 11/13/04 11:34 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

My mom, a borderline socialist, mentioned this to me a few weeks ago. Maybe she wanted to sabotage the whole thing.

I think all libertarians should try to keep this project going. I assume it will give you guys the opportunity to test out some of your ideas. And if the experiment goes well, it should shut up most of most of your naysayers, myself included. Though I guess it would take a long time for the project to yield major results.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Free State Project [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3358826 - 11/14/04 06:03 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

if you actually established enough control though in the state, it would be very interesting if the legistlators refused to follow through on certain mandates from the federal government, claiming they were unconstitutional.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Free State Project [Re: Tao]
    #3358846 - 11/14/04 06:32 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
if you actually established enough control though in the state, it would be very interesting if the legistlators refused to follow through on certain mandates from the federal government, claiming they were unconstitutional.



I believe there are already instances of that happening, with several counties here in California passing anti-Patriot Act laws.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Free State Project [Re: silversoul7]
    #3358854 - 11/14/04 06:39 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:


I believe there are already instances of that happening, with several counties here in California passing anti-Patriot Act laws.



serious? What counties? Its about time for me to meove...


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Free State Project [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3358857 - 11/14/04 06:41 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I'm not certain exactly. It's more symbolic than anything. It's not the feds actually pay attention to those laws.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Free State Project [Re: silversoul7]
    #3358866 - 11/14/04 06:58 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Yeah I get it.  Kinda like when the DEA raids Med Marijunia grow ops.... They don't care about 50 plants they are just givin the  :flipthebird: to the state.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Free State Project [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3359180 - 11/14/04 11:12 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

I watched a Documentary about the Patriot Act and a town had enacted legislation where local police weren't to follow through on the sneek and peak portion of the Patriot Act.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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