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Do you have a soul? *DELETED*
    #3354859 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: dorkus]
    #3354866 -

Creating more religions is not the answer.

Finding your own spirituality without buying into a "group-belief" would be a much wiser route.

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: dorkus]
    #3354876 -

Only you know that.

Maybe the sugar-coated plastic version of reality you should look into.

Somethings you would not say as you did not exist.

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: dorkus]
    #3354943 -

Did you write that? It was definitely a good read. :thumbup:

I don't agree with everything that was said, and I certainly don't have enough time to break those points down and explain my perspectives on said points, but I think that this writing definitely presents some important points to be considered.

The writing speaks of consciousness, awareness, and I think this is the centrum that really needs to be focused on. The issue lies on knowing whether consciousness exists seperately, beyond the physical body, and that it is accessed by the brain and the interactions between the two (the mind), or if awareness arises as a result of reactions within the physical body itself. Basically, does the body create consciousness itself, or does it access it?

Personally, I do not know which one it is, but I do know that knowing where consciousness is coming from would answer these questions - if we have a soul, etc. etc. etc. Personally, although I do not have a scientfic understanding of this, I see a link between consciousness and energy... I think they are of the same. This becomes more intriguing when one realizes that we do not understand what energy is, it is an ultimate. This intrigue is intensified when one realizes that energy composes everything. :laugh:

I do not feel that alterations of the chemical balances of the brain, or removing or fucking with parts of the physical brain point towards a consensus that the brain is responsible for creating consciousness. Just as we say that psychadelics will alter one's perceptions, I would see it feasible to conclude that it is possible that altering one's brain, physically or chemically, alters our perception of consciousness. If I manipulate a radio so that it no longer accurately reproduces a broadcast from the local radio station, does this suggest, then, that the radio itself was responsible for creating the radio signal? The signal is coming from an external source and is still existing independant from the radio, whether or not the radio is accurately reproducing the signal as sound.

No matter where pure awareness arrives from, the importance still lies with pure awareness itself, with consciousness. I cannot make assumptions on whether we have a soul, or if we will reincarnate, or go to heaven, or simply die, although it seems to me, personally, that this is it. Awareness, even if it is produced by your chemical reactions, still will continue to exist - it is formless, and its source does not matter. Awareness does not identify with your thoughts or your memories or your life, it observes them, impartially, as it goes down, and I don't see any individual aspect of ourselves carrying on after this physical body stops functioning.

It doesn't matter, anyways. Presence and being is all that matters in this life. Energy is energy, and it feels cosmic to be energy. :grin:

One last thing:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Your permanent identity of time-energy-space continues unharmed (see The TES Hypothesis), but there is no soul, no reincarnation, and no Buddhist transference of personal karma.  If this is true it means that Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Christianity, and Islam are all wrong.



Perhaps whoever wrote this article does not understand Taoism, but I would personally say that this doesn't prove Taoism wrong, it would prove it right. Taoism and this way of thinking go hand in hand. :thumbup:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3354970 -

"change the change"
-unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: Tag_Number]
    #3355030 -

I have read your text, and I have a few comments.

From your point of view (that is considering the things you have considered), it's all logical.

But you have taken science as a definite reality-number-one
and you have take religions as a definite reality-number-two
Both science and religion can have flaws. Science has been changing for centuries. And each moment of this history was not a complete image of the universe. If you lived In any of the past years of the history of science, you couldn't take it for granted because new theories were created every next century. There is no reason to believe
that current science is the ultimate version of Truth. New theories will come, and old ones will either disappear or be transformed and understood better. So science is not definite, it can be taken as a path, a method of understanding, and it's knowledge can be be used for modeling new ideas in philosophy. It is an inspiration. We can rely our lives on it, but the fact that we are still not immortal and the gods of the universe means that our science is not complete, and any theory or "proof" can be changed into something opposite any day, and could be shown to be a part of some bigger picture that can lead us to new understanding of the universe, quite different than when we only considered these little pieces. Science is a method, not a certain truth.


OK, then religion..
Religion is a human interpretation. It's like art , like poetry.
The basic truths that get interpreted in religion could be coming from some higher creatures, or from aliens or just human philosophy, but they are just interpretations, nothing more.
So even if some universal mind itself came to tell the true nature of the universe to humans, what they would write down would be their primitive version of the source. Religion is being lead by humans, and humans make mistakes and sometimes are very stupid, so you can't take religion as definite statement on it's own behalf.
Instead, you have to wonder what religion might represent. What was the original idea.

And as for brain, soul etc..
Let's speculate that there is a soul, and that this soul's contact with this world is the brain. In that case, any damage to the brain would damage this connection of the soul and this world. So there is no reason to believe that if the soul exists, the brain damage shouldn't make any difference. It should.

And let me remind you something. Human mind records it's whole life
from the birth to death, it can only be accessed in hypnosis. In the state of hypnotic regression you can relive any part of your life
as you are living it right now. So there is no real loss of memory,
there is only a loss of paths to certain parts of the brain.

Drugs, consciousness etc..

If there is soul, then according to many religious philosophies,
it must be on a higher level of consciousness as it releases itself from the terrestrial body. Now the question how can a soul be unconscious under narcosis? Well, how can a soul be so stupid and limited as humans are? It can. If it can be as low as that, it can be even lower, so low that it gets unconscious. The physical reality makes a soul more limited and unconscious that it was before it's human life and that it will be after the human life. So, then there is a possibility that a soul can decrease it's consciousness by physical factors. Some drugs dumb the brain down, the gate of the soul, and thus lower the consciousness, and some drugs like LSD
have the reverse effect. The widen the "bandwidth" of the information transfer between this terrestrial self and the soul, and let more soul "data" to come into this physical brain.

After all, my advice is that we should not be certain about anything, because we are all so ignorant, our science is like 0,00001% of what we still have to learn about how the universe works, and our religions are misguided, and have been abused, and distorted in history, and are only subjective interpretations of the truths
that they were inspired by. Let's just speculate for fun and keep the science research. We should just collect information, and not make any definite conclusions.

And one more thing. You keep using the word "supernatural"
how can something be supernatural? IF we run into something "supernatural" it means that our understanding of "natural" is not as deep as we thought. There can not be anything supernatural.


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: dorkus]
    #3355041 -

I never believed in the Buddhist concept of immortal personal karma without soul, because when you reject soul you lose the vehicle for the transference of karma from one life to the next.

Buddhism does not need any vehicle for transmigration, as it denies any continuity of self at all. The 'you' which exists five seconds after your physical death is in exactly the same relationship to the 'you' five seconds before your death as the 'you' you were five seconds ago is to the 'you' which you will be five seconds into the future. In both cases, no substance is transferred, it being just a disconnected sequence of mindframes.

A buddhist would claim that you are reborn fifty times each second.

UG Krishnamurti just blows my mind. Again and again, this is the most amazing stuff I have ever stumbled upon. What strikes me is that, though he claims the absence of any path, he himself admits that he achieved enlightenment (the "natural state", in his terminology) by the "burning out" of an ultimate question which made the questioner finally disappear, a process very similar to the koan practice in japanese zen, which is probably the most reliable method for achieving a satori experience. UG displays every symptom of what is diagnosed as depersonalization in western psychology, and most often considered a grave mental illness which has to be medicated. Yet, he is able to function sanely in the world, and there is little doubt that his state of consciousness has an awesome lot of spiritual significance (though he violently denies that). Again and again, western psychology is proven completely wrong.

On another note, it is rather obvious that UG has some serious problems regarding basic ethical behaviour. Though he is fully enlightened, he acts very much like an asshole at certain times. This, again, reminds one of japanese zen, which is sadly renowned for being the only buddhist school which has ever led a holy war. According to the original pali sources, there is little doubt that the Buddha emphasized not just satori, but also the practice of the jhanas, higher meditative attainments which enable you to attain knowledge regarding past lives, transmigration, and suffering. It is right there as the last step of the eightfold path: Right jhana, often mistranslated as right concentration.

These meditative states are completely absent in both zen and the philosophy of UG Krishnamurti. They may make all the difference between good and evil.

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3355240 -

JacquesCousteau said:
Finding your own spirituality without buying into a "group-belief" would be a much wiser route.



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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: relativexistance]
    #3355584 -

People don't have souls.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: looner2]
    #3355588 -

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

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Re: Do you have a soul? [Re: dorkus]
    #3356244 -

I disagree about buddhist mythology. It depends on which buddhist school you're talking about, of course.
From what I've read, the buddhist mythology is a basic guide for the human mind and its archetypes. The gods, demi-gods and so forth are symbols, not 'real' persons.

I'll state again that whether there is a mechanism in our brains that allows the spontaneous occurence of mystic experience or not tells you nothing about the nature of such experiences. Those same mechanisms might have been put there by a Creator to allow us to contact it/him/her/them. What's more, it's not about the experiences themselves, it's which conclusions you draw from them. After all, if we based our views on experience alone (and if we'd never been in an airplane), we'd claim the earth was flat.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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