Home | Community | Message Board


Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PureVPN PureVPN   NordVPN NordVPN

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Founding Fathers and Terrorism?
    #3351733 - 11/12/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

When holding it in perspective, terrorists share some traits of the founding fathers. They are protesting the policies that are hurting them and their country and culture, that they have no representation in and yet are constantly given to them (I'd say much harsher than what the founding fathers had to endure,) and so they resort to guerilla warfare and violent means as a way of battling an enemy they have no way to defeat going head on.

Not to mention they are seen as insurgents and punished accordingly by the tyrannical king and his superior and better-trained army, but the perseverance and risks they make may eventually win through in the end

Both the terrorists and the founding fathers suffer the vast majority of casualities on their own land, and I'm sure the similarities would go on and on. Maybe one day, 200 years from now, the Arabs will look back and see America like we see Britain during the Revolutionary War, and the terrorists like we see the founding fathers and Patriots

Odd, it must be Karma that now the Americans are the persecuers and others the persecuees. Will it turn out the same, I wonder?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Ravus]
    #3351751 - 11/12/04 03:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think the fundamental aspect of terrorism that makes it so atrocious is targeting civilians. If not for that, it would simply be guerilla warfare.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3351803 - 11/12/04 03:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There's no comparison at all.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBeefytheButerfly
newbie
Registered: 03/30/01
Posts: 30
Loc: BC,Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3354469 - 11/13/04 04:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well you have to wonder...what if tomorrow the nation of Islam rose up and smote the entire area that is North America and imposed their way of life on the rest of us through force? I think you would see not only the military arm of Islam as the enemy but the civilians (that help support/propogate that ideology) as well. Civilians are just as committed to keeping status quo (ie. keeping those subdued under their thumbs). Can any gun toting, right-to-bear arms american say that he/she wouldn't fight to their dying breath to rid America of all invaders, both civilian and military?
If you make a stand and support your country as a civilian or as part of an army you are declaring yourself a target. I'm not shocked when military actions are taken against civilians. It's like calling time out during a war to say "don't shoot me, I'm a civilian!" What makes a civilian a civilian? The inability to fight back? Sounds like a little preparation and foresight are necessary in order to support your country going to war...especially if you live in a free and democratic society. Civilians are precisely the ones you should go after, give them the taste of what dying and war are all about. It would make the taste of war sour quite quickly. If enough people die then they put pressure on the government to bring it to a halt. So it is truly a fine line between terrorism and freedom fighter.
It is easy to take the moral high road when we have never had to make the hard decisions like watching our family and friends die because of an impersonal war waged by a remote government.
Rest assured, you will never defeat terrorism by the use of force, it will not happen. While inequality reigns supreme there will be legions of have-nots willing to die for a cause.


--------------------
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
-Mitch Ratliffe
Looking to sell? I'm looking to buy, PM me.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: BeefytheButerfly]
    #3354529 - 11/13/04 05:04 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Civilians are precisely the ones you should go after, give them the taste of what dying and war are all about.

And of course the US has slaughtered thousands upon thousands more civilians just in their little adventure in Iraq alone than Bin Laden and the suicide bombers have killed.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3354727 - 11/13/04 07:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Civilians are precisely the ones you should go after, give them the taste of what dying and war are all about.

And of course the US has slaughtered thousands upon thousands more civilians just in their little adventure in Iraq alone than Bin Laden and the suicide bombers have killed.




Good for the US. Its a strategy that obviously works most of the time because we rarely lose. If your strategy works, why change it? Killing civilians isnt a bad thing if it ends the conflict quickly. Of course, we are not killing civilians because we care too much about their feelings. Do you think they care about ours? I dont.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 2 years, 12 days
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Ravus]
    #3354810 - 11/13/04 08:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." This is not a new concept.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: AaronEvil]
    #3354861 - 11/13/04 09:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Killing civilians isnt a bad thing if it ends the conflict quickly




So 9/11 would have been acceptable if it had ended a conflict quickly? Is it okay to take school kids hostage and kill them one by one to acheive your goals? Civilians are not fair game morally because they don't necessarily subscribe to their masters' official view, and so cannot be held accountable for it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: deafpanda]
    #3354879 - 11/13/04 10:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Well you have to wonder...what if tomorrow the nation of Islam rose up and smote the entire area that is North America and imposed their way of life on the rest of us through force? I think you would see not only the military arm of Islam as the enemy but the civilians (that help support/propogate that ideology) as well. Civilians are just as committed to keeping status quo (ie. keeping those subdued under their thumbs). Can any gun toting, right-to-bear arms american say that he/she wouldn't fight to their dying breath to rid America of all invaders, both civilian and military?
If you make a stand and support your country as a civilian or as part of an army you are declaring yourself a target. I'm not shocked when military actions are taken against civilians. It's like calling time out during a war to say "don't shoot me, I'm a civilian!" What makes a civilian a civilian? The inability to fight back? Sounds like a little preparation and foresight are necessary in order to support your country going to war...especially if you live in a free and democratic society. Civilians are precisely the ones you should go after, give them the taste of what dying and war are all about. It would make the taste of war sour quite quickly. If enough people die then they put pressure on the government to bring it to a halt. So it is truly a fine line between terrorism and freedom fighter.
It is easy to take the moral high road when we have never had to make the hard decisions like watching our family and friends die because of an impersonal war waged by a remote government.
Rest assured, you will never defeat terrorism by the use of force, it will not happen. While inequality reigns supreme there will be legions of have-nots willing to die for a cause.



:thumbup:
You said it...While killing civillians if fucked up but I can't say I would do any different in that position.  Killings of civillians usually preceed the death of other civillians directly or by proxy.  Its a vicious cycle that has been started by nobody.

Founding fathers have been rolling in their graves for a century because they would never have engaged in empire building in the first place.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: deafpanda]
    #3354948 - 11/13/04 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said: So 9/11 would have been acceptable if it had ended a conflict quickly? Is it okay to take school kids hostage and kill them one by one to acheive your goals? Civilians are not fair game morally because they don't necessarily subscribe to their masters' official view, and so cannot be held accountable for it.




I hate to say this because I dont want people to shit themselves in anger, but if taking children in a school hostage will end a crisis then it is acceptable to the cause. Not our cause, but we arent the only people on earth with a cause. A strategy is a strategy. If it works, use it. If it doesnt work then maybe a new strategy is needed. The terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 had a cause and saw a problem. Their solution was to attack us, and they were successful. Unfortunately the strategy failed because we faught back. So, in this case, it was not the best thing to do. But if it had worked I would have had no problem with it from a strategic stant point. I base my world views on reason and logic, not on morals because that differs from place to place.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: AaronEvil]
    #3354964 - 11/13/04 11:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good for the US.

In what way is killing innocent people "good for the US"?

Its a strategy that obviously works most of the time because we rarely lose

Isn't that more to do with taking on third world countries armed with catapults than "strategy" tho?

Do you think they care about ours?

Yeah, I think most people in the world are happier when they arn't slaughtering innocent people. Arn't you?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3355005 - 11/13/04 11:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I base my morals on reason...I think it is logical that non-combatants cannot morally be killed because they are not putting themselves up for a fight.  There are very few situations when I think it would be acceptable to kill innocent civilians.  If millions of lives were at stake and could be saved by killing 300 schoolchildren then I would say kill them :devil: .  I am not convinced that there ever would be a comparable situation.  Can you think of any situations where civilians have been targeted and a lot of good has come from it?  Do you think that Hiroshima was acceptable?

And how do you think 9/11 was successful?  It killed a bunch of people, but it didn't help the cause much (although Bush's subsequent actions arguably did). :devil:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpongerock
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 51
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: deafpanda]
    #3355838 - 11/13/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I remember that time George Washington strapped a bomb to his chest and blew up a bunch of british school children. God that guy rules.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Spongerock]
    #3356039 - 11/13/04 04:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It was the only thing George could do to retaliate from exploding bullets fired at the hundreds per-second by a helicopter they could barely hear and not see in the dark.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Ravus]
    #3356109 - 11/13/04 04:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Contrary to apparently popular belief, the US is not colonizing Iraq.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Spongerock]
    #3356656 - 11/13/04 06:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No, but Andrew Jackson had Indian children killed.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3356680 - 11/13/04 07:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, it is.

It invaded the country. It's currently occupying it. It intends to impose its own political and questionable economical system on it. It wants to set up a local puppet that is strong enough to fend for itself so that the troops itself can leave.

Did you know that when Napolean invaded Egypt, he told the people "I have not come to attack your way of life or your religion! I have come to restore your freedoms!"

What is happening IN Iraq is colonization. What else can you call invading a country, occupying it and imposing your own political-economical systems...


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 22 days
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3356921 - 11/13/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is Germany and/or Japan a colony of the United States? Is Panama? Grenada? Korea? Afghanistan? Mexico? Just asking.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3356939 - 11/13/04 08:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is Egypt still a French colony?  :grin:

Colonization is never forever, silly - that's why it's benighted.  :tongue2:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 22 days
Re: Founding Fathers and Terrorism? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3357059 - 11/13/04 08:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Were the nations I listed ever US colonies? Just asking.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PureVPN PureVPN   NordVPN NordVPN

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The United States is NOT Capitalist...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
trendalM 10,934 133 09/28/09 01:34 PM
by Phred
* The Founding Fathers all grew hemp mabus 646 3 03/02/04 03:58 PM
by MAIA
* The Founding Fathers and Christianity TheOneYouKnow 848 9 03/15/04 01:09 PM
by afoaf
* Palin believes the founding fathers wrote the pledge!
( 1 2 all )
supernovasky 1,856 29 09/01/08 10:59 PM
by Gastronomicus
* Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail Luddite 917 16 03/14/09 03:38 AM
by TGRR
* USA Founding Fathers were: (quiz)
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 1,931 43 07/18/04 04:29 AM
by Swami
* did the founding fathers really give a shit about us samueljackson 859 12 10/05/05 08:20 PM
by samueljackson
* who were the "founding fathers"?...
Annapurna1
812 18 07/06/05 03:12 PM
by Phred

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
1,458 topic views. 1 members, 0 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Zamnesia.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.052 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 21 queries.