Home | Community | Message Board


World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Social security
    #3348286 - 11/11/04 08:36 PM (12 years, 25 days ago)

So, what should we do about this?

Bush's plan to protect the social security "investments" of young people might have been a good idea back before social security money was rolled in with the rest of the governments finances, but clearly won't solve the issue that a bunch of people are going to retire soon and will expect to be paid. Many of them, in fact, are depending on the money they expect to get from social security.

So, what can we do?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3348289 - 11/11/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 25 days ago)

I don't think there's an easy answer to this. Some people's toes are gonna have to be stepped on at some point to make things right.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3348308 - 11/11/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 25 days ago)

I think the liberals should pay for my social security. :p


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Social security [Re: Catalysis]
    #3348453 - 11/11/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:


So, what should we do about this?





well i sure know what i'm gonna do about it: invest my own money and not rely on it.

at least part of it has to be privately invested as i see it. but this is not an area i hold much expertise.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Social security [Re: Tao]
    #3349510 - 11/12/04 01:01 AM (12 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

invest my own money and not rely on it.



this is good advice.


I don't think we should keep social security for the long term. People can manage their own money. I don't care if social security is gone by the time I retire; I hope it is.

But, this doesn't solve the problem for people who will retire soon and are expecting to get social security benefits.

As I see it, there are two basic ways to lessen the burden on those of us who will be paying:
1) reduce benefits
2) increase the tax base.

Optimists think that small delays in the onset of benefits is all that will be needed; economic growth will take care of the rest. I don't think this is likely, because it is based on projections of economic growth that are based on the good years that resulted from solid investment, wheras right now we are borrowing money from abroad to spend on consumer goods. My view on this matter is explained in the "America's deficit" thread.


I think it is a good idea to delay the onset of retirement benefits for baby boomers. I think it would be a good idea to admit that the social security idea is busted, and convert it to a welfare-type program for baby-boomers, only paying benefits to the people who didn't save enough for retirement; this is obviously grossly unfair to those who did save, and is probably politically immpossible to achieve.

As far as increasing the tax base, I think we should encourage immigration, particularly of educated people. There aren't enough young white people to pay the baby boomers medical bills, and we're a pretty lazy bunch. Let the Arabs, Indians, Chinese, and Latinos foot the bill.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3349586 - 11/12/04 01:37 AM (12 years, 25 days ago)

I don't care if social security is gone by the time I retire; I hope it is.

And if a truck runs into you tomorrow and you end up paralysed and can't work? Have you got enough insurance and money in the bank right now?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Social security [Re: Xlea321]
    #3349628 - 11/12/04 01:49 AM (12 years, 25 days ago)

If I got hit by a truck and became paralyzed, I'm not sure I'd even want to live long enough to recieve Social Security.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Social security [Re: silversoul7]
    #3349654 - 11/12/04 01:56 AM (12 years, 25 days ago)

If I got hit by a truck and became paralyzed, I'm not sure I'd even want to live long enough to recieve Social Security.

Obviously you're not a fan of hope.



--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Social security [Re: Xlea321]
    #3349679 - 11/12/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 25 days ago)

No, and I wouldn't receive alot of social security benefits, either.

I'm not saying there should be no government assistance for people involved in catastrophic accidents; but i'd prefer a welfare-type system to social security, which is nominally a way for the gov't to force people to save for injury or retirement, but has become something entirely different.

The question of how people should be provided for if the worse happens is not the same as the question of what should happen to social security, though it should be considered if we're talking about crippling or eliminating the social security system.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3349978 - 11/12/04 04:06 AM (12 years, 25 days ago)


I don't think we should keep social security for the long term. People can manage their own money. I don't care if social security is gone by the time I retire; I hope it is.


I would agree with this is principle, but it does rankle a bit to be paying for something I will never receive.


But, this doesn't solve the problem for people who will retire soon and are expecting to get social security benefits.

As I see it, there are two basic ways to lessen the burden on those of us who will be paying:
1) reduce benefits
2) increase the tax base.


I think it is a good idea to delay the onset of retirement benefits for baby boomers.

I think it would be a good idea to admit that the social security idea is busted, and convert it to a welfare-type program for baby-boomers, only paying benefits to the people who didn't save enough for retirement; this is obviously grossly unfair to those who did save, and is probably politically impossible to achieve.


Now we have a problem, Democracy. Take the electorate and divide it into those paying for and those benefiting from social security.
I fear that the working population that can vote will be outnumbered by baby boomers, and as a result they will hold sway over policy.

This 'welfare' like system has been introduced in a form in the UK, we call it 'Means testing', however it has been blamed as one of the reasons people are not saving enough.
People think, "If I can only afford to save a small amount, what is the point of saving for a pension, when I loose pound for pound off my state pension?"

Of course they are assuming that there will be a pension.


As far as increasing the tax base, I think we should encourage immigration, particularly of educated people. There aren't enough young white people to pay the baby boomers medical bills, and we're a pretty lazy bunch. Let the Arabs, Indians, Chinese, and Latinos foot the bill.


Agreed.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3352105 - 11/12/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 25 days ago)

Im not sure of any short term solutions but my friends and I did think of a long term solution. If the government wants to keep social security they need to find a way that they cannot touch it, but you can. The only solution we found was to give every person their own bank SS bank account that the government puts money into. The individual who owns the account cannot use it until they are of retiring age... whatever that age might be by that time. This will make it so everyone gets it, and the government cannot use the money for other things.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 2 months, 2 days
Re: Social security [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3352152 - 11/12/04 04:43 PM (12 years, 25 days ago)

:lol:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Social security [Re: AaronEvil]
    #3352601 - 11/12/04 06:06 PM (12 years, 24 days ago)

that's not too far from what Bush is doing. I don't really see the point in having the gov't say: you have to save. People should mannage their own money.

If the gov't is going to make it so that todays old people can't touch the ss money of the younger generation, why not just ditch the program for younger people. Say something like "if you retire before 2015, you still get paid. Otherwise, start saving." This is better for the young people, and has just the same effect on old people as making it so they won't be able to raid the ss money being paid by the younger generation.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechillywicket
feel like astranger

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 48
Loc: Charm City
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3352719 - 11/12/04 06:30 PM (12 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

phi1618 said:
that's not too far from what Bush is doing. I don't really see the point in having the gov't say: you have to save. People should mannage their own money." ---- Couldn't agree with you more, by the time people of my age (27) are old enough to get social security there won't be any.


--------------------
"Space is fun alright."


Edited by chillywicket (11/12/04 06:31 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: Social security [Re: phi1618]
    #3361600 - 11/14/04 10:02 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

You talk about Social Security as if it was a solution in the past. It sounds good and looks good on paper. The current problem with social security is people are actually collecting it. The life expectancy in the US has raised a lot, and that is a big contributing factor. Social Security was started back in 1934. For you to be eligible to receive it, you have to be at least 65 years of age. Life expectancy back then wasn't that high. They counted on many people not collecting, because they would be dead.

So there are a few possible solutions, if you want to call it that. Raise the minimum age eligibility of Social Security to 80. Most people won't make it to 80, and many will never be able to collect. We could do what we're continuing to do now, which is making drugs ridiculously expensive, and limiting access to the destitute, and shortening their life expectancy. For those who can afford the drugs, they probably are well off enough and don't need social security anyways.

The best solution IMO would be to educate people on how to save up for the future.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Social security [Re: daussaulit]
    #3362430 - 11/15/04 02:11 AM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Any idea how social security would cope if we stopped pissing away countless trillions to the military industrial complex and instead returned it to the people actually paying it in the first place? The taxpayer? What about that 200 billion being pissed away on Iraq for nothing? If that had been invested what would that be worth in 50 years?

Social Security was started back in 1934

When America was economically on it's knees...Isn't America in a stronger economic position than it was in 1934?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Greenspan Pushes for Social Security Fixes
RandalFlagg
392 3 03/16/05 02:21 AM
by Psychoactive1984
* Ol' Bushy's war on social security
( 1 2 3 all )
carbonhoots 2,765 51 12/06/04 05:26 PM
by RandalFlagg
* Bush to Announce Social Security Plans
( 1 2 all )
RandalFlagg
2,004 29 05/04/05 05:12 PM
by Autonomous
* The Social Security Abomination: A Primer Ancalagon 696 7 09/18/04 09:26 PM
by Evolving
* Social Security is NOT Retirement Insurance Evolving 880 9 01/24/04 06:35 PM
by Evolving
* confronting social security carbonhoots 605 6 12/19/04 02:07 PM
by zappaisgod
* Battle Lines Form on Social Security
RandalFlagg
502 2 12/22/04 01:09 PM
by ZippoZ
* Key Lawmakers Cast Doubt on Social Security 'Crisis'
RandalFlagg
378 1 01/24/05 12:44 AM
by SWEDEN

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
580 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.059 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.