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Tao
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Good advice by Bill Maher?
#3347249 - 11/11/04 02:49 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just came across this Larry King interview of Bill Maher from July 31st, 2003. KING: Well, one is going to have to emerge, and then that one will have to present some platform to the party, and they'll have a convention in Boston. MAHER: Well, let me give them a platform. Here would be my Democratic platform. Repeal the tax cut for rich people, right? KING: I think they're saying that already, aren't they, most of them? MAHER: OK. End the drug war. You're not going to get serious about the war on terror until you end the drug war. And also, it's a -- it should be a Democratic constituency. People who are suffering from this war, and there are millions, not just people who are in jail who shouldn't be in jail, but police who are corrupted by having to fight this, courts that are clogged -- hemp, if we had hemp available in this country, which is not even marijuana, we wouldn't have to cut down another tree. OK, get Israeli (ph) about fighting the war on terror here at home. And get real about the environment and end corporate welfare. There's a platform. If someone would come out with something like that, I would get behind them. I'd vote Democratic. KING: Do you think Bush can be beaten? MAHER: Not by this crowd. What do people think of this? I know this is going to a biased crowd, but is it realistic? I know the current polls on support for legalization is low, but if a major party were to adopt the stance, perhaps its feasible? I mean, if the people can be convinced by the government to support it, could they be convinced to drop it?
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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tomk
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3347256 - 11/11/04 02:51 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bill Maher is right as always and sees through to bullshit and tells it as it is.
Not a great comedian though.
-------------------- "I am eternally free"
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3347310 - 11/11/04 02:59 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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with the amount of god fearing bible humpers that just voted this shitbag back into office you think you're going to get critical mass for a legalization effort?
get real.
this country is going down the jesus drain.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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silversoul7
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3347311 - 11/11/04 03:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The American people would not elect someone whose platform is based on ending the Drug War. Tom Campbell, one of the few good Republicans out there, ran against Dianne Feinstein a few years back on this platform and lost miserably. I think, however, if a candidate ran on the platform of cutting the fat of big government, and ending the Drug War was part of that, then the American people might be a little more receptive.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: silversoul7]
#3347400 - 11/11/04 03:19 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Too many have been led to believe that ALL illegal drugs are the devil. There would have to be a drastic shift in public education on the truths of drug use before public opinion would change. I don't think the War on Drugs could end any other way. Americans belive, which probably dates back to Manifest Destiny or before, that they have the right to impose their will on others.
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silversoul7
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
#3347437 - 11/11/04 03:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said: Americans belive, which probably dates back to Manifest Destiny or before, that they have the right to impose their will on others.
Many people in this forum seem to hold that belief as well.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Tao
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: silversoul7]
#3347519 - 11/11/04 03:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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i guess my point is that if they had the speaking platform of the entire democratic party, they could convince a hell of a lot people. i dont need to tell you guys that a lot of sane, logical points can be made. a lot, or should i say most people don't know some simple facts. just the other week there was some idiot on here talking about keeping certain drugs illegal and not having a fucking clue what he was talking about, saying things like, "well alcohol isnt physically addicting" and "most heroin overdoses are not from taking bad heroin" and "coke/heroin would still be really expensive even if it were not illegal". again, with the speaking platform of the democratic party, i think a hell of a lot of people could be convinced. havent you guys experienced conversations with people where you slowly turn them to seeing legalization as a good idea? Its usually pretty difficult to actually change someone's political opinion on something, but this is an issue ive actually had success with. i remember vividly one time a year ago i got in an extremely heated argument with a guy (boyfriend of my friend) about legalization of weed. the entire night he would not give any ground, not accept anything i said, that pot was a horrible damaging drug that he new from personal experience with friends and should stay illegal. i saw him on campus a week later and he came over to me saying he looked up what i said and i was right, apologized and patted me on the back.
plus they could capitalize on the terrorist and crime fear of middle america (isnt that what so many said they saw bush as superior on?), saying they can protect americans from those better as well as cut taxes. the point is the democratic party needs a real concrete solution as to how to combat problems better than the republicans. this could be it.
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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silversoul7
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3347531 - 11/11/04 03:41 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
i dont need to tell you guys that a lot of sane, logical points can be made.
Since when has logic ever succeeded in winning someone an election in America?
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Learyfan
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: tomk]
#3347546 - 11/11/04 03:44 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomk said:
Not a great comedian though.
Shiiiiiiiiit. He's one of the funniest ever IMO.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Learyfan]
#3347652 - 11/11/04 04:00 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
there was some idiot on here talking about keeping certain drugs illegal and not having a fucking clue what he was talking about, saying things like, "well alcohol isnt physically addicting" and "most heroin overdoses are not from taking bad heroin" and "coke/heroin would still be really expensive even if it were not illegal"
That's the same guy that refused to believe crack and cocaine were the same drug.
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Tao
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
#3347660 - 11/11/04 04:01 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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thats the one
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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Great_Satan
prophet of God
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3347701 - 11/11/04 04:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you're worried about the WOD quit drugs.
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DNKYD
Turtle!
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Posts: 12,326
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Great_Satan]
#3347786 - 11/11/04 04:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Great_Satan said: If you're worried about the WOD quit drugs.
HAHAHA! So I guess you're saying, if I'm worried about the goverment trampling my rights, I should just give up that right? So since I'm worried about the Patriot Act, I should just stifle my free speech? I should forgo my freedom to assemble peacefully? You really are an absurd individual.....
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Tao
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: DNKYD]
#3347790 - 11/11/04 04:30 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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pay no attention
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Learyfan]
#3348673 - 11/11/04 08:10 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Quote:
tomk said:
Not a great comedian though.
Shiiiiiiiiit. He's one of the funniest ever IMO.
Not as funny as Lewis Black...
--------------------
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nycomyco
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3348769 - 11/11/04 08:32 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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If people really knew about the war on drugs, they would be against it. I've been to one DPA conference, and there were people there who's families had been tattered by the effects of a family member's drug dependance, and one of the speakers at the conference lost his mother to a heroin overdose when he was in high school, and these people are still reasonable enough to see the ills of the drug war- very valiantly, since most people are happy thinking that locking people up for getting high is appropriate. So there is some hope- but it's baby steps: try to educate people. I think i'll make a write up about the WOD and post it so people can add and spread it around. Also: some good news: David Soares won the DA seat in Albany and his entire platform was based on repealing new york's Rockefellar drug laws. People in New York seem to get the message that mandatory minimums and racist policies are ridiculous. This was an important win. The problem with ending the drug war besides individuals' misconceptions is the fact that prison lobbyists have much power in washington. The prison industrial complex results where the government (with tax dollars) builds prisons, they need prisoners to fill them, they raise minimum sentences and increase enforcement (more tax dollars) to find potential prisoners. Drug arrests are easy, so that's what they go for. So for now it's just civil rights activists, libertarians, minorities mostly who know about how fucked up it is. This body can grow, but with baby steps.
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Tao
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: nycomyco]
#3350279 - 11/12/04 05:22 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
This body can grow, but with baby steps.
but my point is that perhaps a baby step is not what it needs, it needs a giant step, a prominent figure to come out with it as a solution to many problems not just drug problems themselves (i.e. funding terrorism).
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
#3350296 - 11/12/04 05:35 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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> That's the same guy that refused to believe crack and cocaine were the same drug
To be fair, crack and cocaine are not the same drug anymore than heroin and morphine are the same drug.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Tao
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Seuss]
#3350348 - 11/12/04 06:11 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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did you read that thread though?
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Seuss]
#3350430 - 11/12/04 06:49 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seuss they are the same drug. Cocaine is the HCL salt and Crack is the freebase.
I even posted in that thread a link from a DEA website that uses Cocaine and Crack in the same sentence to refer to the same drug.
Crack is not a derivative of cocaine it simply does not have an HCl attached. No different then an A/B extraction of DMT from Mimosa. The DMT starts out as an HCL salt and then becomes the freebase. SAME CHEMICAL.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/straight/cocaine.htm
Why is it so hard for people to understand this?
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twiggedoubt
twigburst
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
#3350719 - 11/12/04 09:08 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Try telling that to all the people doing 5 years MM for 5 grams of crack vs all the people doing 5 years for a kilo of cocaine.
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#3350853 - 11/12/04 09:47 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I saw a news report on that a while ago. Basically it ends up being a completely racist law. Same drug with two different penalties.
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nycomyco
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
#3351018 - 11/12/04 10:35 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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right on cb9fl. twiggie, are you assuming that because a law is 100x more sensitive to crack than it is to powder cocaine, that this is reflective of the pharmacological reality? The truth is crack is more "addictive" because it hits the bloodstream faster than intranasally snorted powder coke. BUT, if the law is based on addiction potential (which the 100:1 ratio doesn't reflect anyway), then the law completely ignores the fact that powder coke can be dissolved and injected, having similar pharmacokinetic effects as crack. Most of this info comes from my professor, who is one of the few who has federal government funding to conduct drug experiments with actual people. There are so many myths about crack that it's ridiculous. Firstly, per dose, crack costs the same as coke. Crack is the same chemical, only it is missing the salt HCL. the reason it is removed (with baking soda or another base, i think) is that cokeHCL cannot be combusted at a temperature lower than the temperature of decomposition of cocaine. Without the base, it burns lower. The crack-baby myth is bs- Bush Sr. said crack was the most dangerous domestic epidemic, and so the idea of crack babies being too stupid to be worried about by the government spread. In fact, the expected generation of crack-babies did not entirely come about. The truth is that tobacco and alcohol have more serious affects on babies than cocaine. And also, why not cocaine babies? Some numbers: overall, more white people do CRACK than black people, while a higher percentage of blacks do crack. Despite the fact that more whites do crack, blacks are arrested for crack offenses 22x more than whites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The enforcement and the law itself are extremely racist. The law indicates increased severity when within 1000 feet of public housing. For enforcement, look at arrest numbers for race, and check out what happened in Tulia Texas, and how everyone above the officer ignored his lack of evidence and instead rewarded him.
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Seuss
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: nycomyco]
#3351290 - 11/12/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Cocaine is the HCL salt and Crack is the freebase.
And heroin is diacetylmorphine. The acetyl allows the morphine to pass the blood barrier into the brain more quickly than plain morphine.
Is dexromethorphan.hbr the same thing as dextromethorphan freebase? No, absolutely not. One is a salt, the other is a freebase, two very different things. Same with crack and cocaine... it is easy to go back and forth between the two, but a salt is not a freebase and a freebase is not a salt.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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nycomyco
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Seuss]
#3353084 - 11/12/04 05:58 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Crack:powder coke is not analogous to Heroin:morphine. The additional functional group to morphine to make heroin affects (as you said) the ability of the opiate to cross the BBB. The chemical change to cocaineHCL to make crack cocaine does not effect pharmacokinetics (besides usual route of administration), but rather solubility and combustion temperature. Crack itself is not more potent than powder cocaine, but smoking cocaine has a faster/stronger effect than snorting it.
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: nycomyco]
#3353515 - 11/12/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cocaine HCl is a different chemical but not a different drug than the freebase (crack).
Quote:
Salts are usually crystalline solids rather than oils or waxy solids, which is why they are so popular with drugs, it makes them easier to handle, and the drug properties are not changed. Think about it, you have HCl in your stomach, and acid throughout your body, so if you ingest a drug in either form, it will end up being in the same form (probably a salt) in your body no matter how it started out.
Drug pharmacology is no different between freebase and HCl salt.
Dextromethorphan (yuck!!!) and Dextromethorphan HBr (yuck!!!) would elicit the same pharmacological effect. Morphine and Diacetylmorphine would not elicit the same effect.
More to the point, to consider crack and cocaine the same drug would be wrong. As I stated in my earlier post a poster on the Shroomery believed crack and cocaine were the same drug. I pointed out that he is wrong but he refused to accept evidence stating otherwise.
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phi1618
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3353552 - 11/12/04 09:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The War on Drugs should end. The oppinion that the drug war should end is regularly expressed by educated and intellegent pundits - the Economist, for example, takes the position that the drug war is a failure.
But, neither party will take that position. It just isn't accepted by a large portion of the US populace, who are regularly exposed to anti-drug propaganda.
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DoctorJ
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3355647 - 11/13/04 12:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've always thought of the Drug War as very similar to the Salem Witch trials. everyone knows its wrong but they are too afraid of persecution to speak up about it. Any polls regarding the drug issue need to be taken with a grain of salt, because most people are too afraid to admit they do drugs, or speak out against prohibition. Perhaps if a major party endorsed the ending of the drug war, this would cause a lot of people to 'come out of the closet' regarding their feelings on this issue.
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Tao
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: DoctorJ]
#3355753 - 11/13/04 01:05 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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also, a lot of politics isn't choosing your issues based on public opinion but convinicing the public that you are right. ending the drug war would be a hard sell, but i think it could be done. of course, i, like many on here, am biased.
-------------------- Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs
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Spongerock
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Tao]
#3355846 - 11/13/04 01:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bill Maher is a blubbering vagina...
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DirtMcgirt
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: Spongerock]
#3357432 - 11/13/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anybody remember when Jesse Ventura was the Gov of MN? He said that all drugs should be legalized and so should prostitution because it was a failure and needed to be treated as a health/social issue not a criminal one. He said it off the cuff in interveiws but never had any intentions of implimenting legislature....the media crucified him anyways...politicans are too afraid of bringing up the WOD failure because any political enemy can use it to smear their image.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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Seuss
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Re: Good advice by Bill Maher? [Re: newuser1492]
#3363186 - 11/15/04 08:53 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Cocaine HCl is a different chemical but not a different drug than the freebase (crack).
I can accept that definition. (I would not have considered DXM (yuck!) salts a different drug, but I would have considered a DXM salt and DXM freebase to be different drugs the same way I would have considered crack and cocaine to be different drugs. Bah, it isn't that important anyway... )
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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