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OfflineNuperSova
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Registered: 11/04/04
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Druggists refuse to give out pill
    #3346425 - 11/11/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-08-druggists-pill_x.htm

Posted 11/8/2004 10:11 PM Updated 11/9/2004 3:14 AM

Druggists refuse to give out pill

By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY
For a year, Julee Lacey stopped in a CVS pharmacy near her home in a Fort Worth suburb to get refills of her birth-control pills. Then one day last March, the pharmacist refused to fill Lacey's prescription because she did not believe in birth control.

Gracy Marshall, left, and Gloria Benavides protest in front of Eckerd's in February in Denton, Texas.
Al Key, The Record-Chronicle

"I was shocked," says Lacey, 33, who was not able to get her prescription until the next day and missed taking one of her pills. "Their job is not to regulate what people take or do. It's just to fill the prescription that was ordered by my physician."

Some pharmacists, however, disagree and refuse on moral grounds to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. And states from Rhode Island to Washington have proposed laws that would protect such decisions.

Mississippi enacted a sweeping statute that went into effect in July that allows health care providers, including pharmacists, to not participate in procedures that go against their conscience. South Dakota and Arkansas already had laws that protect a pharmacist's right to refuse to dispense medicines. Ten other states considered similar bills this year.

The American Pharmacists Association, with 50,000 members, has a policy that says druggists can refuse to fill prescriptions if they object on moral grounds, but they must make arrangements so a patient can still get the pills. Yet some pharmacists have refused to hand the prescription to another druggist to fill.

In Madison, Wis., a pharmacist faces possible disciplinary action by the state pharmacy board for refusing to transfer a woman's prescription for birth-control pills to another druggist or to give the slip back to her. He would not refill it because of his religious views.

Some advocates for women's reproductive rights are worried that such actions by pharmacists and legislatures are gaining momentum.

The U.S. House of Representatives passed a provision in September that would block federal funds from local, state and federal authorities if they make health care workers perform, pay for or make referrals for abortions.

"We have always understood that the battles about abortion were just the tip of a larger ideological iceberg, and that it's really birth control that they're after also," says Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

"The explosion in the number of legislative initiatives and the number of individuals who are just saying, 'We're not going to fill that prescription for you because we don't believe in it' is astonishing," she said.

Pharmacists have moved to the front of the debate because of such drugs as the "morning-after" pill, which is emergency contraception that can prevent fertilization if taken within 120 hours of unprotected intercourse.

While some pharmacists cite religious reasons for opposing birth control, others believe life begins with fertilization and see hormonal contraceptives, and the morning-after pill in particular, as capable of causing an abortion.

"I refuse to dispense a drug with a significant mechanism to stop human life," says Karen Brauer, president of the 1,500-member Pharmacists for Life International. Brauer was fired in 1996 after she refused to refill a prescription for birth-control pills at a Kmart in the Cincinnati suburb of Delhi Township.

Lacey, of North Richland Hills, Texas, filed a complaint with the Texas Board of Pharmacy after her prescription was refused in March. In February, another Texas pharmacist at an Eckerd drug store in Denton wouldn't give contraceptives to a woman who was said to be a rape victim.

In the Madison case, pharmacist Neil Noesen, 30, after refusing to refill a birth-control prescription, did not transfer it to another pharmacist or return it to the woman. She was able to get her prescription refilled two days later at the same pharmacy, but she missed a pill because of the delay.

She filed a complaint after the incident occurred in the summer of 2002 in Menomonie, Wis. Christopher Klein, spokesman for Wisconsin's Department of Regulation and Licensing, says the issue is that Noesen didn't transfer or return the prescription. A hearing was held in October. The most severe punishment would be revoking Noesen's pharmacist license, but Klein says that is unlikely.

Susan Winckler, spokeswoman and staff counsel for the American Pharmacists Association, says it is rare that pharmacists refuse to fill a prescription for moral reasons. She says it is even less common for a pharmacist to refuse to provide a referral.

"The reality is every one of those instances is one too many," Winckler says. "Our policy supports stepping away but not obstructing."

In the 1970s, because of abortion and sterilization, some states adopted refusal clauses to allow certain health care professionals to opt out of providing those services. The issue re-emerged in the 1990s, says Adam Sonfield of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, which researches reproductive issues.

Sonfield says medical workers, insurers and employers increasingly want the right to refuse certain services because of medical developments, such as the "morning-after" pill, embryonic stem-cell research and assisted suicide.

"The more health care items you have that people feel are controversial, some people are going to object and want to opt out of being a part of that," he says.

In Wisconsin, a petition drive is underway to revive a proposed law that would protect pharmacists who refuse to prescribe drugs they believe could cause an abortion or be used for assisted suicide.

"It just recognizes that pharmacists should not be forced to choose between their consciences and their livelihoods," says Matt Sande of Pro-Life Wisconsin. "They should not be compelled to become parties to abortion."


What a slippery slope this is! Say I as a pharmacist didn't want to fill a prescription because the drug was tested on animals...or because it was AIDS medication and I thought that AIDS was God's way of punishing you. It's a pharmacists' jobs to fill prescriptions not decide based on moral beliefs that you shouldn't get them!

Chryssi


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Anonymous

Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3346434 - 11/11/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

should be OTC. then there'd be no problems.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3346483 - 11/11/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i hate the religous right and their moral elitism... i would seriously punch that pharmicist if he denied me prescribed medicine...grrr :-P


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: ]
    #3346484 - 11/11/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

won't go too far for sheer monitary reasons

you start narrowing the number of places that fill a perscription... people will still want it. employees that fill such perscriptions, if uncommon, would be bringing in a lot more money.. and some company with many such druggists would take over the market so to say. blar.


still pretty dumb. stepping back is one thing.. "this is not ok for ME", but blocking's wrong ("this it not ok for YOU", not observing beliefs but enforcing them).


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3346489 - 11/11/04 02:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

ps: what a fucking suprise it was in texas :rolleyes:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3346566 - 11/11/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It just recognizes that pharmacists should not be forced to choose between their consciences and their livelihoods," says Matt Sande of Pro-Life Wisconsin. "They should not be compelled to become parties to abortion.




I have been thinking about this, and came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what they moral values are, their job is to provide a drug which has been prescribed by a doctor. The doctor gets to make the call, not the pharmacist. If we allow people of different occupations to place their moral values above what their freely choosen profession requires, then we are creating a huge problem in other fields.

Can you imagine calling the fire department to put your burning house out, but they don't want to work on Saturday because their moral values tell them that working on Saturday's is bad?

Can you imagine laying in the street, a victim of a car wreck, and the EMTs on the ambulance will not help you because they are racist and their moral values prevent them from from working on somebody of your race?

Can you imagine calling a tow truck driver and when he gets there he tells you that he wont tow your car because he doesn't like Japanese cars?

What about the postman that won't drop off your mail because your house is brick and she does't like people that live in brick houses.

If they don't like giving out the drugs that a licenced doctor prescribed, then they should get another !%#$ing job and quit bitching about being a part of something against their moral values. If they want to second guess a doctor, then they should have gone to medical school and gotten licenced as an MD.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3347276 - 11/11/04 04:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That is unbelievable.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3347284 - 11/11/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
That is unbelievable.




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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3347336 - 11/11/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

She should go to a rave and try to buy some E. I've seen tons of birth control pills sold as ecstacy.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3347407 - 11/11/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just scanned (operative word) through this and I can't seem to figure out what is so abhorrent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a PRIVATE business conducting its affairs in whichever way it chooses; you don't have a RIGHT to be sold birth control pills from pharmacies. What are these people doing that is actually wrong?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3347424 - 11/11/04 05:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think mushmaster hit the nail on the head when he said birth control should be OTC. Then this problem wouldn't arise. The whole idea of requiring a prescription for something should be done away with.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3347614 - 11/11/04 05:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

taken from the same debate on the same article but in the pub

To sum it up pharmacists are the last line of defense between recovery and disaster. If they feel what the doctor has prescribed is not right or unsafe they are obligated to not dispense the medication and follow whatever procedure to find out why the doctor has done what they have. Pharmacists are often much more knowledgeable on drugs than doctors as it is their sole job and it is vital to the health care profession that they prevent the taking of harmful medicines.

The law must be in place to ensure safety and the subject of conception is just very iffy. If a pharmacist believes that life begins whens the sperm enters the egg then they would feel as if a life is being taken in the administration of the morning after pill. It is their duty to prevent that, just as it would be to stop a pregnant woman from taking a pill which would cause a miscarriage. Which is why i said not administering Prue-conceptual birth control is groundless and stupid.


So Seuss especially you fail to realize that it is the duty of the pharmacist to protect the customer from taking potentially harmful medications.


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3347641 - 11/11/04 05:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Just scanned (operative word) through this and I can't seem to figure out what is so abhorrent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a PRIVATE business conducting its affairs in whichever way it chooses; you don't have a RIGHT to be sold birth control pills from pharmacies. What are these people doing that is actually wrong?





Well, legally they aren't wrong, since they are covered by the law. But if they had qualms about dispensing certain drugs, then perhaps they should have shared this with their employers during the interviewing process, because their beliefs would interview with their ability to serve the customers and do their job. And it is their job to dispense medication as prescribed doctors, and paid for by the customer.

Chryss


--------------------
I Refuse To Say I'm Lost Just Because I Don't Know Where I Am


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: d33p]
    #3347710 - 11/11/04 06:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
taken from the same debate on the same article but in the pub

To sum it up pharmacists are the last line of defense between recovery and disaster. If they feel what the doctor has prescribed is not right or unsafe they are obligated to not dispense the medication and follow whatever procedure to find out why the doctor has done what they have. Pharmacists are often much more knowledgeable on drugs than doctors as it is their sole job and it is vital to the health care profession that they prevent the taking of harmful medicines.

The law must be in place to ensure safety and the subject of conception is just very iffy. If a pharmacist believes that life begins whens the sperm enters the egg then they would feel as if a life is being taken in the administration of the morning after pill. It is their duty to prevent that, just as it would be to stop a pregnant woman from taking a pill which would cause a miscarriage. Which is why i said not administering Prue-conceptual birth control is groundless and stupid.


So Seuss especially you fail to realize that it is the duty of the pharmacist to protect the customer from taking potentially harmful medications.




Potentially harmful in whose opinion though? Say I know just as much as the pharmacist does, well read, knowledgeble, well-rounded, hell, went to med school too, and I wanted birth-control pills? And I asked for them and a pharmacist told me "No" because it was harmful to my potential children, and I said that I didn't think it was? Then what?

But besides that d33p, you're argument really doesn't work because they're refusing medications on the basis of moral beliefs and opinions. You say a child is formed at this particular time, I might say it's not.


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3347723 - 11/11/04 06:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Get your tubes tied. Problem solved.


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: NuperSova]
    #3347726 - 11/11/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NuperSova said:
Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Just scanned (operative word) through this and I can't seem to figure out what is so abhorrent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a PRIVATE business conducting its affairs in whichever way it chooses; you don't have a RIGHT to be sold birth control pills from pharmacies. What are these people doing that is actually wrong?





Well, legally they aren't wrong, since they are covered by the law. But if they had qualms about dispensing certain drugs, then perhaps they should have shared this with their employers during the interviewing process, because their beliefs would interview with their ability to serve the customers and do their job. And it is their job to dispense medication as prescribed doctors, and paid for by the customer.

Chryss



The final decision should obviously rest with the owner of the establishment. My point was simply that your rights are not being violated and no laws (to my knowledge) are being broken if the owner of a pharmacy on whatever grounds, moral or otherwise, decides not to sell you a product.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3347731 - 11/11/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Reactions escalate in Islam debate


Journalist and social worker Masoum Moradi received a death threat last Friday, after he made negative reference to the prophet Muhammad in a newspaper editorial. Experts say Moradi isn't the only high-profile Muslim to be targeted by threats of violence

Writers, critics and politicians in this country report increasingly aggressive reactions from Islamic fundamentalist circles in the national debate on Islam.

One week ago, an instructor at Copenhagen University's Carsten Niebuhr Institute was beaten after he read excerpts of the Koran aloud.

On Friday, Iranian-born columnist and social worker Masoum Moradi received a death threat in the mail at his home on the island of Funen, after making a negative reference to the prophet Muhammad in an editorial for daily newspaper Fyens Stiftstidende.

"Some people feel I crossed a boundary about what can permissibly be said about Muhammad. I questioned him, and that shook the very foundations of Islam as a religion. These people are trying to scare me into keeping my opinions to myself, but they're not going to win," Moradi told daily newspaper Jyllands-Posten. The incident was reported to police.

The death threat was written on a word processor and phrased in Arabic. The letter accused Moradi of being a lackey for "Zionists and crusaders," therefore deserving of death.

"I'd like to raise the bar for what can be openly discussed. In the same way that people discussed Christianity, I think we ought to be able to talk about the prophet Muhammad as a historical personage, and create a forum for debate in which people can speak freely," said Masoum Moradi.

Moradi told Jyllands-Posten that some refugee and immigrant groups had begun to participate more actively in Danish society than previously.

"These groups used to be more isolated because of their fundamentalism. But now they're starting to read local newspapers and take a more active role in the public debate," said Moradi.

Radical Liberal MP Naser Khader told the newspaper that he had also noticed how well-informed extremist Muslim groups were becoming.

"The image of these groups has changed quite a bit over the past two to three years, and the methods have become much more aggressive. I used to experience aggressive behavior when I was at political meetings, but now it's moved into the private sphere. I can be confronted with it when I'm out with my children," said Khader, who declined to elaborate on his negative encounters.

Copenhagen Council integration consultant and city councilman Manu Sareen told Jyllands-Posten that he had also received threats from extremist Muslim groups.

"These people aren't stupid, and it really challenges our popular image of thugs being responsible for these threats and attacks. Many Muslim fundamentalists are very well-educated, and know perfectly well where to go for information - as well as who's who in the national debate," said Sareen, adding:

"There's an organisation of more fundamentalist Muslims in Denmark that we haven't seen before. This is doubtless due to the increased polarisation of Danish society. When Danes and Muslims distance from each other, each side finds new allies. One way of bonding with new allies is to find new enemies - for example, anyone who doesn't interpret Islam in the same way that you do. It's an unfortunate trend that doesn't benefit anyone at all."

According to Professor Torben Ruberg Rasmussen of the University of Southern Denmark's Center for Middle East Studies, the dramatic reactions may be due to a new generation of Muslims who approach their religious convictions differently.

"For the new generation, religion is a self-chosen project. So they don't just take offense on behalf of the prophet - they take things very personally. The problem is that many Muslims have a hard time understanding that all values are open to discussion in the Danish public arena. Nothing's sacred - and anyone who has an idea that certain issues are untouchable is bound to clash with someone at some point," said Rasmussen.

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/82655.html


Edited by Great_Satan (11/11/04 06:19 PM)


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OfflineNuperSova
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3347739 - 11/11/04 06:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Great_Satan said:
Get your tubes tied. Problem solved.




...And women are prescribed birth control for other reasons besides birth control


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OfflineTao
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3347742 - 11/11/04 06:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What are these people doing that is actually wrong?



if that were the private pharmacy's policy, fine. obviously it wasn't since they carried birth controls. this stepped way across the lines of the doctor-patient guidelines. my dad is an obgyn, does not think people should have abortions, does not perform them himself, but he certainly doesn't advise someone on a moral basis not to have one.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Druggists refuse to give out pill [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3347753 - 11/11/04 06:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Just scanned (operative word) through this and I can't seem to figure out what is so abhorrent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a PRIVATE business conducting its affairs in whichever way it chooses; you don't have a RIGHT to be sold birth control pills from pharmacies. What are these people doing that is actually wrong?







"Yet some pharmacists have refused to hand the prescription to another druggist to fill.

In Madison, Wis., a pharmacist faces possible disciplinary action by the state pharmacy board for refusing to transfer a woman's prescription for birth-control pills to another druggist or to give the slip back to her. He would not refill it because of his religious views."


--------------------


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